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Donna D'Ingillo wrote on tml:
Donna D'Ingillo wrote on tml:
Reply to #3, [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism that was April 1993 around the 26 or 27 if my memory serves me. Naperville, IL] ( think it was a Holiday Inn or some other hotel like that)--rdavis 01:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Reply to #3, [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism that was April 1993 around the 26 or 27 if my memory serves me. Naperville, IL] ( think it was a Holiday Inn or some other hotel like that)--rdavis 01:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
==Gerdean's Initial Comments==
==Gerdean's Initial Comments==
Gerdean wrote on tml:
Gerdean wrote on tml:
3. Naperville, Illinois. April 24, 1993.
3. Naperville, Illinois. April 24, 1993.
this confirms the date mentioned in [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism the record].
this confirms the date mentioned in [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism the record].
==Jim's Initial Comments==
==Jim's Initial Comments==
I would lay that on the wisdom of God. It was a bit chaotic because so many thought nothing happened except for them fooling themselves and got emotional. Had he materialized, however, the chaos would likely have been greater. Just my idea.--rdavis 17:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I would lay that on the wisdom of God. It was a bit chaotic because so many thought nothing happened except for them fooling themselves and got emotional. Had he materialized, however, the chaos would likely have been greater. Just my idea.--rdavis 17:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
----
Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 6:34 AM Jim wrote in reply to query re: [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1993-06-20-Honesty 1993-06-20-Honesty]
Hi Rob and all,
Patije could shed some light on this if you would call or e-mail her.
In earlier posts, I spoke of a black gentleman in Sedona who was helping refugees readjust from their experience with Tony and his community. He may have had a group. While everyone has failed to mention it, he spoke during the meeting in the hotel ballroom as well. He described the lament of one family who had given up their possessions to live with this group and became disillusioned at Tony's draconian arrogance .... having to bow whenever he entered a room, having to sit and listen to his channelings.
I don't see how all this hearsay can be molded into anything with real substance. A well-researched commentary should include a conversation with Marilyn Green and others involved in setting it up. I have a phone number of one of her friends. Also Bob Slagle, who gave a keynote address the prior evening. Also Patije and Pat and the Sedona gentleman. (Pat is into Keylontics, check it out.)
Reports from Marty Risacher, Mark Austin and Byron Belitsos will be in the history book. Two speak negatively regarding sensation and miracle seeking; one had the spiritual experience of his lifetime ... up until then.
I don't believe anyone can reasonably blame anyone else for the event, especially if they didn't listen to Machiventa's transmission and have no idea of what he said. This seems to be the case with everyone we've heard from. They were there but they have no idea about what happened or what the celestials said. They are mostly concerned about whether they were duped or not and how it happened.
Certainly, a knee-jerk reaction to deleterious new age lightworker influences is off-base. We could use more of their altruistic influences and learn to open ourselves more to spirit.
I think the event was influenced strongly by attitudes .... suspicion, doubt, distrust. The Oklahoma contingent had already heard from a TR and she transmitted material which did not look at the event favorably and they came armed with that information as their reference point of 'truth.'
I believe those participating in the ceremony and some others were trying to generate positive energy and make a difference with their love and faithful commitment. Other people in the room made little or no effort, resented the ceremony and contributed negative energy. For the teachers, it was a tremendous learning experience.
jim--rdavis 14:32, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
== susan's transmission & jim's further thoughts ==
== susan's transmission & jim's further thoughts ==
== New Page ==
== New Page ==
I have copied the content of the [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1 former talkpage for Naperville] to this location where further comments will be added.--rdavis 02:13, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I have copied the content of the [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1 former talkpage for Naperville] to this location where further comments will be added.--rdavis 02:13, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
== Steve Hecht's Commentary ==
== Steve Hecht's Commentary ==
After flying back to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston,_Massachusetts Boston] I vividly [[remember]] sitting in my car, [[listening]] to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Petty_and_the_Heartbreakers Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers]’ [[song]], “[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_to_Fly_(Tom_Petty_song) Learning to Fly]”:
After flying back to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston,_Massachusetts Boston] I vividly [[remember]] sitting in my car, [[listening]] to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Petty_and_the_Heartbreakers Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers]’ [[song]], “[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_to_Fly_(Tom_Petty_song) Learning to Fly]”:
:…I’m learning to fly
:…I’m learning to fly
:What goes up must come down…
:What goes up must come down…
At that [[moment]] I realized that I had been mightily [[touched]] with the [[romance]], the [[grandeur]], and the bittersweet aftertaste of what I could only think of as an [[experiential]] encounter with what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.P._Blavatsky H.P. Blavatsky] had often warned her [[students]] about: [https://www.google.com/search?printsec=frontcover&dq=george+steiner+real+presences&hl=en&q=george%20steiner%20real%20presences&sa=N&tab=pw#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=spiritual+glamour&pbx=1&oq=spiritual+glamour&aq=f&aqi=g-v1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=182044l185751l0l186199l19l15l1l3l3l0l115l1036l13.2l19l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=9bf999b8b987bb6c&biw=643&bih=677 spiritual glamour].
At that [[moment]] I realized that I had been mightily [[touched]] with the [[romance]], the [[grandeur]], and the bittersweet aftertaste of what I could only think of as an [[experiential]] encounter with what [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.P._Blavatsky H.P. Blavatsky] had often warned her [[students]] about: [[spiritual glamour]].
For an interesting theosophical commentary on spiritual glamour, see [https://theosophytrust.org/tlodocs/articlesWQJ.php?d=GLAMOUR.htm&p=95 this link]--rdavis 02:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
== Discussion of Narrative ==
Rob wrote on tml Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 8:55 PM
I have now secured a brief narrative account of the event from Steve Hecht and have created a page for any future additions to the discussion of this event. Please feel free to suggest adjustments as you see fit.--rdavis 21:29, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
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On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 8:10 AM, jamescleveland tds.ne wrote:
Hi Rob,
Steve left out the call for volunteers who had expressed an interest in helping to come up for the ceremony, which is described well by Donna. He left before Ms. Green transmitted Machiventa and did not sit in with her and others for transmissions and open discussion afterwards. He was in the group in the lobby who discussed the event among themselves, I guess. He didn't hear 'my feet are now planted on Urantia' and the rest of it. I didn't recall that people had shuffled out before the main transmission. I believe a number of people left thinking these transmissions leading to the event were false, the product of new age influenced imagination, and they should have stayed with the book and not expected some kind of miracle, that it was a human folly. I wonder if they were constantly THINKING all during this time of waiting. I wonder if they released to the holy spirit or whether they entertained their own mind all during the ceremony. I wonder if they made any connection to Spirit after the ceremony at any time to get some light, or if their minds contained all that they needed to 'know' and they continued on in their analytical life. My chief regret is not having a record of anything Machiventa said. Who knows? It could be worth something.
best wishes, jim--rdavis 21:29, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
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On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Rob wrote on tml:
Hello Jim-
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I have entered these comments into the discussion page and look forward to proposed amendments to the Naperville page. We have to start somewhere, and I thought Steve's recollection was one that was a neutral point of origin given feelings of many - positive and negative.
I look forward to gathering more information and incorporating it into the page.
Gratefully,
Rob
