Difference between revisions of "1987-06-18-To Forgive, Fearing"
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===Dialogue=== | ===Dialogue=== | ||
| − | + | ===='''''[[Anger]]'''''==== | |
| + | Tommas Not so much, a [[query]]. Just some [[thoughts]] of my own. I have been [[feeling]] quite [[good]] in myself, and [[cheerful]], and get along with people, but then you hear on the news of a [[violent]] [[assault]], and I feel such a [[rage]] inside, and some of the [[things]] I think should be done to these people, and I [[realize]] how easily [[violence]] can breed violence, then I tend to feel that I have undone all of my [[good]] [[thoughts]] by the thoughts I have had for these other people, do others here have the same sorts of [[feelings]]? | ||
| − | Teacher: I am understanding. You are understanding you have found the calm within yourself. You also recognize that at times there is need to express anger etc. because you have the calm you shall not express your feelings in a violent manner toward other persons. It does not undo your calm. The calm brings balance. You are understanding? | + | Teacher: I am [[understanding]]. You are understanding you have found the [[calm]] within yourself. You also [[recognize]] that at times there is need to [[express]] [[anger]] etc. because you have the [[calm]] you shall not express your [[feelings]] in a [[violent]] [[manner]] toward other persons. It does not undo your calm. The calm brings [[balance]]. You are [[understanding]]? |
| − | "It can actually do me good, to feel that way, and get it out of my system? | + | "It can actually do me [[good]], to feel that way, and get it out of my [[system]]? |
| − | Teacher: But of course. Indignation, yes. There is discussion on this? | + | Teacher: But of course. [[Indignation]], yes. There is [[discussion]] on this? |
| − | A discussion followed, where we would all find it hard to forgive, give love to, turn the other cheek, etc, to these violent people. | + | A [[discussion]] followed, where we would all find it hard to [[forgive]], give [[love]] to, turn the other cheek, etc, to these [[violent]] people. |
| − | Teacher: You are all of the same thinking? | + | Teacher: You are all of the same [[thinking]]? |
| − | + | All Yes, we are, | |
| − | Teacher: What happens when change is occurring? Turmoil, over balance, yes. Humankind undergo immense change, much social policy is under review, social attitudes under review, yes. And is it not just for these perpetrators of violent acts to be faced with their wrong doings to society, to them self. | + | Teacher: What happens when [[change]] is occurring? [[Turmoil]], over balance, yes. [[Humankind]] undergo immense [[change]], much [[social]] [[policy]] is under review, social [[attitudes]] under review, yes. And is it not just for these perpetrators of [[violent]] [[acts]] to be faced with their wrong doings to [[society]], to them [[self]]. |
| + | ===='''''[[Forgiveness]]'''''==== | ||
| + | …...Another [[discussion]] follows on forgiving or not to [[forgive]]. | ||
| − | + | Teacher: To [[forgive]] the [[person]], [[understanding]] the [[person]], but not to forgive the [[action]], the [[thought]], the [[feeling]], is a [[difficult]] thing.It is a [[fearing]] of yourself, and it is the ACTION, that it is despised. The person may be with [[compassion]], excused. | |
| − | + | Yes, it is the [[Action|ACTIONS]] that we all deplore. | |
| − | + | Teacher: And it is this division within yourself, that [[causes]] some anguish, because to [[divorce]] [[action]] from the [[person]] is a [[difficulty]]. You are [[understanding]] my [[words]]? You may comment if you [[wish]]. | |
| − | + | Martin Talks about we have to also use [[violence]] sometimes just to [[protect]] ourselves. | |
| − | |||
| − | Martin Talks about we have to also use violence sometimes just to protect ourselves. | ||
Teacher: So like, treats like. | Teacher: So like, treats like. | ||
| − | A further discussion follows on soul learning, karma, sins, etc, that, cannot be learned on soul plane, that have to be learned on the physical plane. | + | A further [[discussion]] follows on [[soul]] [[learning]], [[karma]], sins, etc, that, cannot be learned on [[soul]] [[plane]], that have to be learned on the [[physical]] plane. |
| − | + | ===='''''[[Change]]'''''==== | |
| − | Teacher: I have said before times, it is not of necessity to live existences from beggar to king, with all the ramifications in-between. You are understanding? And this is a problem, but as I have said, when change is occurring there is a maelstrom if you wish, where things, persons, actions, feelings, appear to be exaggerate out of control, magnify, to grow vast from one manner to change to another manner in-between is the maelstrom and this time you live is such. | + | Teacher: I have said before times, it is not of [[necessity]] to live [[existences]] from [[beggar]] to [[king]], with all the ramifications in-between. You are [[understanding]]? And this is a [[problem]], but as I have said, when [[change]] is occurring there is a [[maelstrom]] if you wish, where [[things]], [[persons]], [[actions]], [[feelings]], appear to be exaggerate out of [[control]], [[magnify]], to [[grow]] vast from one [[manner]] to change to another manner in-between is the [[maelstrom]] and this [[Epoch|time]] you live is such. |
| − | |||
| − | |||
| − | + | Charles You are telling us that this [[time]] we live in is a time of great [[change]]? | |
| − | + | Teacher: Certainly. You see, through the vast expanse of [[time]], [[space]], that the planet [[Earth]] has become populated, so to, has the [[numbers]] of persons grown, there are now many more persons living, inhabiting the planet Earth than at any other period in the [[history]] of the [[planet]] Earth, much adjusting must be done. | |
| − | + | Selina When you say a time span, are you talking about 100 years, a thousand years | |
| − | + | Teacher: In which [[manner]] is your [[query]],? | |
| − | + | "Well you mentioned the time span that we are now living in, I [[presume]] you are not talking about a short time span, like our life span for example. | |
| − | + | Teacher: Correct. I am unable to give a [[limit]]. | |
| − | + | Tommas We are also in a [[time]] of very rapid [[change]]. | |
| − | . | + | Teacher: Correct. You see, the [[development]] of a [[human being]] the fastest [[growth]] is in. the [[childhood|early years]], yes. Much [[learning]], [[language]], movement etc. from then it is expanding from that initial learning, with the planet Earth, it is as such, but reversed. In the early times [[learning]] was comparatively slow. As the [[development]] of the [[Earth]] and the people who populated the Earth that development has [[Acceleration|speeded]] until now in the last few decades. The largest area of [[experiences]] learning has taken place, you would [[agree]]? There shall come a time, I am unable to give a [[limit]], when the [[speed]] shall slow, and expansion on that which has been [[learned]] shall take place, at a more [[comfortable]] [[rate]] but you see, in the [[face]] of [[horror]] such as you have spoken of, endeavour to remain [[positive]] and calm, yes. [[Violence]] begats violence. [[Negativity]] begats negativity. |
| + | ===='''''[[Fear]]'''''==== | ||
| + | Bryoni If we [[fear]] these things happening to us, is it not more likely that they will | ||
| − | Teacher: This is my point, and I reiterate, fear will be your downfall. Fear is your enemy, and fear of fear is worse. | + | Teacher: This is my [[point]], and I [[reiterate]], [[fear]] will be your downfall. Fear is your [[enemy]], and fear of fear is worse. |
| − | You wish to discuss? | + | You [[wish]] to [[discuss]]? |
| − | + | Martin We hear of the [[violence]], we don't hear about [[groups]] like us, we hear the bad reports on [[Media|T.V. Radio & papers]], but you never hear much of the [[good]] things. | |
| − | Teacher: The communication network across the planet Earth gives you fear to feed on, which feeds on more fear etc, whether it be communication via radio waves, or communication through speech. | + | Teacher: The [[communication]] network across the planet [[Earth]] gives you [[fear]] to feed on, which feeds on more fear etc, whether it be [[communication]] via [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_waves radio waves], or communication through [[speech]]. |
| − | Further discussion on do people bring fear & bad things to themselves, with what they think about, and what they are taught and what they believe. | + | Further [[discussion]] on do people bring [[fear]] & bad things to themselves, with what they [[think]] about, and what they are taught and what they [[believe]]. |
| − | Teacher: I give you exercise which may ease your hearts. Look for GOOD NEWS for a change, collect GOOD NEWS. Happy events, cheerful news, perhaps you may divide yourselves, one half of you could collect the bad news, sad, unhappy, distasteful events, and the other half of you could collect the good news, happy, joyful events, and comparisons may be made, you may find a surprise for yourselves. This is a good plan for you? | + | Teacher: I give you [[exercise]] which may ease your [[hearts]]. Look for GOOD NEWS for a [[change]], collect GOOD NEWS. [[Happy]] [[events]], cheerful news, perhaps you may divide yourselves, one half of you could collect the bad news, sad, unhappy, distasteful events, and the other half of you could collect the good news, happy, [[joyful]] events, and comparisons may be made, you may find a [[surprise]] for yourselves. This is a good [[plan]] for you? |
| − | You may draw straws, and then perhaps you may change for a following weeks gathering. Sensation sells, good news does not shock, does not bring bile to the throat, anger to the heart, your neck hairs do not stand on end, I say this, when faced with negativity, when fed negativity, problems, remain calm. Look for good events in another place. Also human kind are programmed to remark & comment on that which appears bad, for example, the weather. When the thunder claps and the lightning flashes, does not your body tense, it is cold, yes, much comment is made on this. | + | You may draw straws, and then perhaps you may [[change]] for a following weeks gathering. Sensation sells, good news does not [[shock]], does not bring bile to the throat, [[anger]] to the [[heart]], your neck hairs do not stand on end, I say this, when faced with [[negativity]], when fed negativity, [[problems]], remain [[calm]]. Look for good events in another place. Also [[human]] kind are [[programmed]] to remark & comment on that which appears bad, for example, the [[weather]]. When the thunder claps and the [[lightning]] flashes, does not your [[body]] tense, it is cold, yes, much comment is made on this. |
| − | Bryoni Comments on how we tend to tell others of our problems, and not share our good news so often with others, do not want to brag or boast, an ego thing. | + | Bryoni Comments on how we tend to tell others of our [[problems]], and not [[share]] our good news so often with others, do not want to brag or boast, an [[ego]] thing. |
Teacher: | Teacher: | ||
| Line 87: | Line 88: | ||
Correct. And what does this do, it closes you. | Correct. And what does this do, it closes you. | ||
| − | + | Charles Abraham has told us in the [[past]], that a [[negative]] [[thought]], or a negative [[vibration]] is much stronger than a-[[positive]] one and therefore the room could be full of positive [[thoughts]], but one [[negative]] person could walk in and just destroy. | |
| − | Teacher: To illustrate again the weather. When it is cold, wet dismal, do not you hurry from place to place, the quicker to arrive at the fireside. When the sun shines bright it has a slowing effect, yes? So it appears the cold is more strong, because it produces a strong action, think! | + | Teacher: To [[illustrate]] again the [[weather]]. When it is cold, wet dismal, do not you hurry from place to place, the quicker to arrive at the fireside. When the [[sun]] shines bright it has a slowing [[effect]], yes? So it appears the cold is more strong, because it produces a strong [[action]], [[think]]! |
| − | + | Selina On a [[positive]] note, Selina & Tommas went to an [http://innerpeacemovement.org/ Inner Peace Movement] meeting and the [[speaker]] talked about the same [[things]] as Abraham talks about, [[vibrations]], silver cord, [[God]] [[Force]], [[positive]], [[negative]], [[love]] [[energy]]. Many people there, a few left after half an hour, as it was not what they had [[expected]], but the [[majority]] of searchers, like us stayed, and could go on to an in depth [[meeting]] the following night, it was nice to see so many people quite [[happy]] to sit and [[listen]] and learn more about [[self]]. | |
| − | + | Filip Talks about [[writing]] to the [[author]] of the [[Watchers]] book, and contact [[Moth]]ers who have lost [[babies]], who are concerned about the [[souls]] of the babies, a radio talk-back, a [[book]], expand our [[knowledge]]. | |
| − | Teacher: You wish to speak on radio waves? Or you wish to write on paper, Then you are confident in your replies | + | Teacher: You [[wish]] to [[speak]] on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_waves radio waves]? Or you [[wish]] to [[write]] on [[paper]], Then you are [[confident]] in your replies |
| − | "I just need to repeat what you have told us. | + | "I just need to [[repeat]] what you have told us. |
| − | Teacher: Correct, if this is your desire, then do so, but refrain, if you please, from using my name. You shall say... "You have learned" . .. etc. | + | Teacher: Correct, if this is your [[desire]], then do so, but refrain, if you please, from using my [[name]]. You shall say... "You have learned" . .. etc. |
| − | " Learned from a higher consciousness. | + | " Learned from a [[higher consciousness]]. |
Teacher: Correct. | Teacher: Correct. | ||
| − | You may say you have a teacher of higher consciousness who has given you this knowledge. | + | You may say you have a [[teacher]] of [[higher consciousness]] who has given you this [[knowledge]]. |
| − | You see, by mention your teacher by name, shall bring forth much queries, and queries shall perhaps be a cause for your confusion. | + | You see, by mention your [[teacher]] by name, shall bring forth much [[queries]], and queries shall perhaps be a [[cause]] for your [[confusion]]. |
Teacher: Then you wish to take refreshment? then I shall return. | Teacher: Then you wish to take refreshment? then I shall return. | ||
| − | A long discussion followed, mostly on all the points talked about earlier, more depth, more to & fro, for & against. | + | A long [[discussion]] followed, mostly on all the points talked about earlier, more depth, more to & fro, for & against. |
ABRAHAM RETURNS. | ABRAHAM RETURNS. | ||
| + | |||
===Closing=== | ===Closing=== | ||
Filiphave you got any comments on our discussions? | Filiphave you got any comments on our discussions? | ||
Revision as of 21:36, 25 August 2011
Heading
Topic: To Forgive, Fearing
Group: New Zealand TeaM
Facilitators
Teacher: Abraham
TR: Unknown
Session
Opening
Charles opening prayer
Teacher: I am Abraham, I am your Teacher.
All Good evening Abraham
Teacher: This appointment shall be brief. You have queries?
Dialogue
Anger
Tommas Not so much, a query. Just some thoughts of my own. I have been feeling quite good in myself, and cheerful, and get along with people, but then you hear on the news of a violent assault, and I feel such a rage inside, and some of the things I think should be done to these people, and I realize how easily violence can breed violence, then I tend to feel that I have undone all of my good thoughts by the thoughts I have had for these other people, do others here have the same sorts of feelings?
Teacher: I am understanding. You are understanding you have found the calm within yourself. You also recognize that at times there is need to express anger etc. because you have the calm you shall not express your feelings in a violent manner toward other persons. It does not undo your calm. The calm brings balance. You are understanding?
"It can actually do me good, to feel that way, and get it out of my system?
Teacher: But of course. Indignation, yes. There is discussion on this?
A discussion followed, where we would all find it hard to forgive, give love to, turn the other cheek, etc, to these violent people.
Teacher: You are all of the same thinking?
All Yes, we are,
Teacher: What happens when change is occurring? Turmoil, over balance, yes. Humankind undergo immense change, much social policy is under review, social attitudes under review, yes. And is it not just for these perpetrators of violent acts to be faced with their wrong doings to society, to them self.
Forgiveness
…...Another discussion follows on forgiving or not to forgive.
Teacher: To forgive the person, understanding the person, but not to forgive the action, the thought, the feeling, is a difficult thing.It is a fearing of yourself, and it is the ACTION, that it is despised. The person may be with compassion, excused.
Yes, it is the ACTIONS that we all deplore.
Teacher: And it is this division within yourself, that causes some anguish, because to divorce action from the person is a difficulty. You are understanding my words? You may comment if you wish.
Martin Talks about we have to also use violence sometimes just to protect ourselves.
Teacher: So like, treats like.
A further discussion follows on soul learning, karma, sins, etc, that, cannot be learned on soul plane, that have to be learned on the physical plane.
Change
Teacher: I have said before times, it is not of necessity to live existences from beggar to king, with all the ramifications in-between. You are understanding? And this is a problem, but as I have said, when change is occurring there is a maelstrom if you wish, where things, persons, actions, feelings, appear to be exaggerate out of control, magnify, to grow vast from one manner to change to another manner in-between is the maelstrom and this time you live is such.
Charles You are telling us that this time we live in is a time of great change?
Teacher: Certainly. You see, through the vast expanse of time, space, that the planet Earth has become populated, so to, has the numbers of persons grown, there are now many more persons living, inhabiting the planet Earth than at any other period in the history of the planet Earth, much adjusting must be done.
Selina When you say a time span, are you talking about 100 years, a thousand years
Teacher: In which manner is your query,?
"Well you mentioned the time span that we are now living in, I presume you are not talking about a short time span, like our life span for example.
Teacher: Correct. I am unable to give a limit.
Tommas We are also in a time of very rapid change.
Teacher: Correct. You see, the development of a human being the fastest growth is in. the early years, yes. Much learning, language, movement etc. from then it is expanding from that initial learning, with the planet Earth, it is as such, but reversed. In the early times learning was comparatively slow. As the development of the Earth and the people who populated the Earth that development has speeded until now in the last few decades. The largest area of experiences learning has taken place, you would agree? There shall come a time, I am unable to give a limit, when the speed shall slow, and expansion on that which has been learned shall take place, at a more comfortable rate but you see, in the face of horror such as you have spoken of, endeavour to remain positive and calm, yes. Violence begats violence. Negativity begats negativity.
Fear
Bryoni If we fear these things happening to us, is it not more likely that they will
Teacher: This is my point, and I reiterate, fear will be your downfall. Fear is your enemy, and fear of fear is worse.
Martin We hear of the violence, we don't hear about groups like us, we hear the bad reports on T.V. Radio & papers, but you never hear much of the good things.
Teacher: The communication network across the planet Earth gives you fear to feed on, which feeds on more fear etc, whether it be communication via radio waves, or communication through speech.
Further discussion on do people bring fear & bad things to themselves, with what they think about, and what they are taught and what they believe.
Teacher: I give you exercise which may ease your hearts. Look for GOOD NEWS for a change, collect GOOD NEWS. Happy events, cheerful news, perhaps you may divide yourselves, one half of you could collect the bad news, sad, unhappy, distasteful events, and the other half of you could collect the good news, happy, joyful events, and comparisons may be made, you may find a surprise for yourselves. This is a good plan for you?
You may draw straws, and then perhaps you may change for a following weeks gathering. Sensation sells, good news does not shock, does not bring bile to the throat, anger to the heart, your neck hairs do not stand on end, I say this, when faced with negativity, when fed negativity, problems, remain calm. Look for good events in another place. Also human kind are programmed to remark & comment on that which appears bad, for example, the weather. When the thunder claps and the lightning flashes, does not your body tense, it is cold, yes, much comment is made on this.
Bryoni Comments on how we tend to tell others of our problems, and not share our good news so often with others, do not want to brag or boast, an ego thing.
Teacher:
Correct. And what does this do, it closes you.
Charles Abraham has told us in the past, that a negative thought, or a negative vibration is much stronger than a-positive one and therefore the room could be full of positive thoughts, but one negative person could walk in and just destroy.
Teacher: To illustrate again the weather. When it is cold, wet dismal, do not you hurry from place to place, the quicker to arrive at the fireside. When the sun shines bright it has a slowing effect, yes? So it appears the cold is more strong, because it produces a strong action, think!
Selina On a positive note, Selina & Tommas went to an Inner Peace Movement meeting and the speaker talked about the same things as Abraham talks about, vibrations, silver cord, God Force, positive, negative, love energy. Many people there, a few left after half an hour, as it was not what they had expected, but the majority of searchers, like us stayed, and could go on to an in depth meeting the following night, it was nice to see so many people quite happy to sit and listen and learn more about self.
Filip Talks about writing to the author of the Watchers book, and contact Mothers who have lost babies, who are concerned about the souls of the babies, a radio talk-back, a book, expand our knowledge.
Teacher: You wish to speak on radio waves? Or you wish to write on paper, Then you are confident in your replies
"I just need to repeat what you have told us.
Teacher: Correct, if this is your desire, then do so, but refrain, if you please, from using my name. You shall say... "You have learned" . .. etc.
" Learned from a higher consciousness.
Teacher: Correct.
You may say you have a teacher of higher consciousness who has given you this knowledge.
You see, by mention your teacher by name, shall bring forth much queries, and queries shall perhaps be a cause for your confusion.
Teacher: Then you wish to take refreshment? then I shall return.
A long discussion followed, mostly on all the points talked about earlier, more depth, more to & fro, for & against.
ABRAHAM RETURNS.
Closing
Filiphave you got any comments on our discussions?
Teacher: Yes, it is this, and then I shall leave you
AS WITH YOUR ECONOMY, PERSONAL VALUED ARE INFLATED
SHALOM.
CharlesClosing prayer.
