Changes

==Session==

==Session==

===Opening===

===Opening===

Hello everybody. This is Welmek. I decided to change my introduction and take your advice to loosen up a little. (group laughter) Once again, much has happened during this past week. There have been many new teachers arrive, and they are in training now. Several have gathered here with us tonight to observe, to learn from you and to hopefully receive assignments before long. I wish to take a moment for each of us to receive the spirit and to say a prayer. I will lead you in this prayer.

Hello everybody. This is Welmek. I [[decided]] to [[change]] my introduction and take your [[advice]] to loosen up a little. (group [[laughter]]) Once again, much has happened during this past week. There have been many new [[teachers]] arrive, and they are in [[training]] now. Several have gathered here with us tonight to [[observe]], to learn from you and to [[hopefully]] [[receive]] [[assignments]] before long. I wish to take a [[moment]] for each of us to [[receive]] the [[spirit]] and to say a [[prayer]]. I will lead you in this [[prayer]].

Creator Michael, sovereign of our local universe, we ask that you receive us in your care, that your love, your desire and your will manifest itself in our daily life. We look to you to find the Father. Lead us, guide us, forever uphold us, that we may one day embrace you. We thank you for all of the opportunity to serve in your universe; and on behalf of the mortals on this planet, we all thank you for living your life here, for showing us all the way to the Father. Glory be our Father and glory be to you.

Creator [[Michael]], [[Master Son|sovereign]] of our [[local universe]], we ask that you [[receive]] us in your [[care]], that your [[love]], your [[desire]] and your will [[manifest]] itself in our daily life. We look to you to find [[the Father]]. [[Lead]] us, guide us, forever uphold us, that we may one day [[embrace]] you. We thank you for all of the [[opportunity]] to serve in y[[our universe]]; and on behalf of the [[mortals]] on [[this planet]], we all [[thank]] you for [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=UB#Part_IV._The_Life_and_Teachings_of_Jesus living your life here], for showing us all the way to [[the Father]]. Glory be our Father and glory be to you.

Each day I encourage you all to pray. Pray to our creator. Ask that you be guided in the way that you know is right. For this evening, we are going to begin somewhat of a new phase, if you will, in our direction. I have asked a member of this group to prepare a brief conversation, if you will, that will stimulate response. This will continue for a while. It is my desire that each of you come to know one another more fully.

Each day I [[encourage]] you all to [[pray]]. Pray to our [[creator]]. Ask that you be [[guided]] in the way that you know is right. For this evening, we are going to begin somewhat of a new [[phase]], if you will, in our [[direction]]. I have asked a member of this [[group]] to [[prepare]] a brief [[conversation]], if you will, that will [[stimulate]] [[response]]. This will continue for a while. It is my [[desire]] that each of you come to know one another more fully.

I believe this is one good technique that will accomplish this goal. Having said that, last Saturday Steve and I had a conversation. Within that conversation, the idea of prayer was discussed. I now wish to turn this meeting over to Steve, for he will present to you a few of the ideas that we discussed, after which we will open the concept to the floor and begin there.

I believe this is one [[good]] [[technique]] that will accomplish this [[goal]]. Having said that, last Saturday Steve and I had a [[conversation]]. Within that conversation, the [[idea]] of [[prayer]] was [[discussed]]. I now wish to turn this [[meeting]] over to Steve, for he will present to you a few of the [[ideas]] that we discussed, after which we will open the [[concept]] to the floor and begin there.

===Dialogue===

===Dialogue===

STEVE: Thank you. When I talked to Welmek on Saturday, I had told him that I thought that when I did pray that it was just saying the words, that there was no feeling there. And as I thought about it over the weekend, I came to the conclusion that I was trying too hard, that it was kind of an all-purpose prayer for everyone I could think of. The ideas that Welmek gave me seem to help, because I've tried them over the weekend and this week, and they seem to work. He suggested that when we pray that we only think of one person or situation at a time for that particular session of our prayer. He mentioned that if we could, we should picture that individual. We should let the feeling of love within us fill us and then think of that individual and what we wish to accomplish for that individual. He also suggested that as we do that that we be as sincere as we possibly can, (I'm reading verbatim here) be specific in your request, be honest in your attempts and as I said, be sincere of heart and of motivation. And if we do this we are again "effective in setting forth a petition that must be answered".

STEVE: Thank you. When I talked to [[Welmek]] on Saturday, I had told him that I [[thought]] that when I did [[pray]] that it was just saying the [[words]], that there was no [[feeling]] there. And as I thought about it over the weekend, I came to the [[conclusion]] that I was trying too hard, that it was kind of an all-[[purpose]] [[prayer]] for everyone I could think of. The [[ideas]] that Welmek gave me seem to help, because I've tried them over the weekend and this week, and they seem to [[work]]. He suggested that when we [[pray]] that we only [[think]] of one [[person]] or situation at a time for that particular session of our [[prayer]]. He mentioned that if we could, we should [[picture]] that [[individual]]. We should let the [[feeling]] of [[love]] within us fill us and then [[think]] of that [[individual]] and what we wish to accomplish for that individual. He also suggested that as we do that that we be as [[sincere]] as we possibly can, (I'm [[reading]] verbatim here) be specific in your request, be [[honest]] in your attempts and as I said, be [[sincere]] of [[heart]] and of [[motivation]]. And if we do this we are again "effective in setting forth a [[petition]] that must be answered".

He warned that we think of each individual differently, that we think of each situation differently, that what we wish for the individual that we do it differently. He warned that thinking the same thought, the same idea or the same concept was redundant and once we said it once with sincerity, that it was in the records and it would be acted upon.

He [[warned]] that we [[think]] of each [[individual]] [[differently]], that we think of each [[situation]] [[differently]], that what we wish for the individual that we do it differently. He [[warned]] that thinking the same [[thought]], the same [[idea]] or the [[same]] concept was redundant and once we said it once with [[sincerity]], that it was in the [[records]] and it would be [[acted]] upon.

He had some suggestions that as we make the petitions for the individuals that we go beyond that and think of the world and situations within the world. He suggested that that's where we direct our thoughts.

He had some suggestions that as we make the [[petitions]] for the [[individuals]] that we go beyond that and think of the world and situations within the world. He suggested that that's where we direct our [[thoughts]].

WELMEK: I appreciate your sharing part of your session with this group. Who would like to comment upon what they have heard? Or elaborate on their own concept of effective prayer?

WELMEK: I [[appreciate]] your [[sharing]] part of your session with this group. Who would like to comment upon what they have heard? Or elaborate on their own [[concept]] of [[effective prayer]]?

Q. I found it very interesting, because I, like you Steve, when I'm praying it's like this long list of, you know, trying to get everybody in, all the people that I care about. That brings it really into more simplicity for me because if I can concentrate on that one person, and I think Mark when you came to the meeting first you said that you felt overwhelmed that there were so many things to pray about, but by him saying that it goes on record, your request or your thought or your prayer for that individual kind of takes you more at ease because then you don't feel that you have to be constantly praying for the same thing over and over again. So it really opens up a lot for me. I think I'll have more effective prayer due to that.

Q. I found it very interesting, because I, like you Steve, when I'm [[praying]] it's like this long list of, you know, trying to get everybody in, all the people that I [[care]] about. That brings it really into more [[simplicity]] for me because if I can [[concentrate]] on that one [[person]], and I think Mark when you came to the [[meeting]] first you said that you felt overwhelmed that there were so many [[things]] to [[pray]] about, but by him saying that it goes on [[record]], your request or your [[thought]] or your [[prayer]] for that [[individual]] kind of takes you more at ease because then you don't [[feel]] that you have to be constantly praying for the same thing over and over again. So it really opens up a lot for me. I think I'll have more [[effective prayer]] due to that.

Q. Does that mean that you don't pray for the same person again?

Q. Does that mean that you don't [[pray]] for the same person again?

A. If you wish to pray for the same individual again, obviously you may do this. However, if your prayer has been sincere, your motivation true of heart, and your thought clear of mind then you have indeed gone on record. You have made a petition for this individual that some change, some help be added to that person. Once this is done, in time, this petition must be answered. It is really up to the individual as to when they are ready, which determines when the prayer will be answered. However, once you have made record of this, it does not amplify significance or import of the prayer by repeating it over and over. We have, as you say, heard your words and it is so noted. Therefore, spend your time in prayer reflecting upon many people, many situations. There is much help that is needed on your world; and as we have discussed already, effective prayer creates a positive energy which is literally utilized by those of us that are called upon to help answer these prayers.

A. If you wish to [[pray]] for the same [[individual]] again, obviously you may do this. However, if your [[prayer]] has been [[sincere]], your [[motivation]] true of [[heart]], and your [[thought]] [[clear]] of [[mind]] then you have indeed gone on [[record]]. You have made a [[petition]] for this [[individual]] that some [[change]], some help be added to that person. Once this is done, in [[time]], this [[petition]] must be answered. It is really up to the [[individual]] as to when they are ready, which determines when the [[prayer]] will be answered. However, once you have made [[record]] of this, it does not amplify significance or import of the [[prayer]] by [[repeating]] it over and over. We have, as you say, heard your [[words]] and it is so noted. Therefore, spend your [[time]] in [[prayer]] [[reflecting]] upon many people, many situations. There is much help that is needed on [[your world]]; and as we have [[discussed]] already, [[effective prayer]] creates a [[positive]] [[energy]] which is [[literally]] utilized by those of us that are called upon to help answer these [[prayers]].

Q. If we don't know the people that we're praying for help for, say a group of people, maybe political prisoners, would that be sufficient enough to include everyone who is in that group even if we didn't know them specifically? Do we petition to help any or all of them in that particular situation?

Q. If we don't know the people that we're [[praying]] for help for, say a group of people, maybe [[political]] [[prisoners]], would that be sufficient enough to include everyone who is in that [[group]] even if we didn't know them specifically? Do we [[petition]] to help any or all of them in that particular situation?

A. With the personalities present on the planet right now, I would say yes. Be as specific as you can in your request, even though you may not, as you suggest, know the individual members of such a group. There are enough of us here, there are enough angels and other ministers who may seek this group out and do whatever they can to make effective your request.

A. With the [[personalities]] present on [[the planet]] right now, I would say yes. Be as specific as you can in your request, even though you may not, as you suggest, know the [[individual]] members of such a [[group]]. There are enough of us here, there are enough [[angels]] and other ministers who may seek this [[group]] out and do whatever they can to make [[effective]] your request.

Q. Welmek, what happens if we go through all the people that we know here and our loved ones and all the political groups, then what's left to pray for if we just do this one time?

Q. Welmek, what happens if we go through all the people that we know here and our loved ones and all the [[political]] groups, then what's left to [[pray]] for if we just do this one time?

A. There are many opportunities for prayer. There are millions and millions of individuals. There are millions and millions of situations that if you stop and think about them, I'm sure they will begin to come to your mind.

A. There are many [[opportunities]] for [[prayer]]. There are millions and millions of [[individuals]]. There are millions and millions of situations that if you stop and [[think]] about them, I'm sure they will begin to come to your [[mind]].

Q. Welmek, I forget where it is in the book, but in describing prayer as opposed to say, worship, it talks about prayer as sort of a planning time for the individual. I guess one aspect of prayer is where it's sort of a planning time, sort of when you're talking to the Father about a situation or an individual, you're sort of making a plea to God to help you respond to that person in a way that would be beneficial or more loving. I guess what I'm trying to say is, that in that light, in that sense, when I pray for people that I know, that I have a relationship with, I'm praying not just for them to achieve the direction that they need, but also that I find a way to relate to them in a way that would be beneficial in helping them to achieve that. So in that case is it okay...I keep praying for the same people over and over again.

Q. Welmek, I [[forget]] where it is in [[the book]], but in [[describing]] [[prayer]] as opposed to say, [[worship]], it talks about prayer as sort of a [[planning]] time for the [[individual]]. I guess one aspect of prayer is where it's sort of a planning time, sort of when you're talking to [[the Father]] about a situation or an [[individual]], you're sort of making a plea to [[God]] to help you [[respond]] to that [[person]] in a way that would be beneficial or more loving. I guess what I'm trying to say is, that in that [[light]], in that sense, when I [[pray]] for people that I know, that I have a [[relationship]] with, I'm praying not just for them to [[achieve]] the [[direction]] that they need, but also that I find a way to relate to them in a way that would be beneficial in helping them to [[achieve]] that. So in that case is it okay...I keep [[praying]] for the same people over and over again.

A. Once you have made your petition for the individual, how do you perceive in your mind it is beneficial to make the same request over and over?

A. Once you have made your [[petition]] for the [[individual]], how do you [[perceive]] in your [[mind]] it is beneficial to make the same request over and over?

Q. What I'm trying to say is a lot of times when I pray it's sort of like a conversation with God; and it helps me, I suppose. What I'm asking Him to do when I'm praying for another person in relation to me, I'm asking Him to help me to find a way to understand that person and so that we can relate in a better way, not necessarily so we can get along, but you know, if I want them to come closer to God and I think that there's some way that I can help but I don't have the wisdom or the experience with that person, it's sort of an ongoing dialogue. Like "Well, Father, yesterday we did such and such and I guess I could have said..." you know of along those lines.

Q. What I'm trying to say is a lot of times when I [[pray]] it's sort of like a [[conversation]] with God; and it helps me, I [[suppose]]. What I'm asking Him to do when I'm [[praying]] for another [[person]] in relation to me, I'm asking Him to help me to find a way to [[understand]] that [[person]] and so that we can relate in a better way, not necessarily so we can get along, but you know, if I want them to come closer to [[God]] and I [[think]] that there's some way that I can help but I don't have the [[wisdom]] or the [[experience]] with that person, it's sort of an ongoing [[dialogue]]. Like "Well, Father, yesterday we did such and such and I guess I could have said..." you know of along those lines.

A. Now you have hit the distinction. It is important to note what I have said when I referenced situations. Each situation that you find different with one individual, indeed, it does become effective to seek the advice that you talk about. But to say the same prayer, the exact same prayer, over and over and over is my point. You do not need to do this, for we have made note of your request and will act upon it as we can. Therefore you are wise in your perception. You are beginning to fully discern the idea of effective praying. It is more that just requesting help for the individual. It is requesting insight into your relationship and how you may help this individual. You are, in a sense, praying for yourself as well. If each time you pray for this individual it revolves around a different situation, then I encourage you to do this. Do you all feel that you understand the distinction that we are making?

A. Now you have hit the [[distinction]]. It is important to note what I have said when I referenced situations. Each situation that you find [[different]] with one [[individual]], indeed, it does become [[effective]] to seek the [[advice]] that you talk about. But to say the same [[prayer]], the exact same prayer, over and over and over is my [[point]]. You do not need to do this, for we have made note of your request and will [[act]] upon it as we can. Therefore you are [[wise]] in your [[perception]]. You are beginning to fully [[discern]] the [[idea]] of [[effective praying]]. It is more that just requesting help for the [[individual]]. It is requesting [[insight]] into your [[relationship]] and how you may help this [[individual]]. You are, in a sense, praying for yourself as well. If each time you [[pray]] for this [[individual]] it revolves around a different situation, then I [[encourage]] you to do this. Do you all [[feel]] that you understand the [[distinction]] that we are making?

Q. Welmek, what if you just want to, in your prayers and petitions, to just sort of go down the line and say "God bless this person", and really mean it? I mean, you don't think you should say that about them every day?

Q. Welmek, what if you just want to, in your [[prayers]] and [[petitions]], to just sort of go down the line and say "[[God]] [[bless]] this person", and really mean it? I mean, you don't think you should say that about them every day?

A. If you desire this and if this brings you comfort, then do not change that which you do.

A. If you [[desire]] this and if this brings you [[comfort]], then do not [[change]] that which you do.

Q. What if you talk about focusing then on the world? Because then in the end you repeat that, you know what I mean? Like you're praying for babies born with addictions and people who are hungry, need nourishment, and you pray for those things over again. Is that considered the same as what you do for the individual? Once you pray for that, then you can move on? Is it okay to do that time and time again?

Q. What if you talk about [[focusing]] then on the world? Because then in the end you [[repeat]] that, you know what I mean? Like you're praying for [[babies]] born with [[addictions]] and people who are [[hungry]], need nourishment, and you [[pray]] for those things over again. Is that considered the same as what you do for the [[individual]]? Once you pray for that, then you can move on? Is it okay to do that time and time again?

A. Again, if you pray for the world, and your example for let's say, starving children, if you generalize your prayer, if you change the nature of your prayer to be more specific or the circumstances change, then you have made a separate request. It is when you make literally the same request that I suggest to you that you are no longer making an effective prayer. But stop and consider what Mary has raised. She has said that in the situation with her friend, with this acquaintance, that there are different situations that arise, for she said "yesterday could I have answered this in response to that...the day before maybe I could have done something differently". As situations change, yes, effective prayer will also be adapted to those situations. This is also in relation to Marva's question about "Will I run out of opportunity to pray? I dare say that with all of those that you encounter each day of your life, as each encounter brings a new situation, you will have no problem in figuring out what to petition, how to not only enhance the life of the one in which you pray for, but also yourself. Do you not see how you will grow as this wisdom comes to you in learning how to deal with another of your brother or sisters? This is effective prayer. Remember the Master said, "When you pray, much will be added to you." This is part of what that means.

A. Again, if you pray for the world, and your [[example]] for let's say, [[starving]] [[children]], if you generalize your [[prayer]], if you [[change]] the [[nature]] of your prayer to be more specific or the [[circumstances]] change, then you have made a separate request. It is when you make [[literally]] the same request that I suggest to you that you are no longer making an [[effective prayer]]. But stop and [[consider]] what Mary has raised. She has said that in the situation with her [[friend]], with this acquaintance, that there are [[different]] situations that arise, for she said "yesterday could I have answered this in [[response]] to that...the day before maybe I could have done something [[differently]]". As [[situations]] change, yes, [[effective prayer]] will also be adapted to those situations. This is also in relation to Marva's question about "Will I run out of [[opportunity]] to [[pray]]? I dare say that with all of those that you encounter each day of your life, as each encounter brings a new situation, you will have no [[problem]] in figuring out what to [[petition]], how to not only enhance the life of the one in which you [[pray]] for, but also yourself. Do you not see how you will grow as this [[wisdom]] comes to you in [[learning]] how to deal with another of your [[brother or sisters]]? This is [[effective prayer]]. Remember [[the Master]] said, "When you pray, much will be added to you." This is part of what that means.

Q. Welmek, the question I had specifically about the issue of prayer of being for yourself, it has been my understanding that the purpose of prayer was to change me, not to change God. So I guess where the conflict comes for me is if I were not to pray for someone, does that mean that God wouldn't act favorably on that person just as if He would act if I did pray?

Q. Welmek, the question I had specifically about the issue of [[prayer]] of being for yourself, it has been my [[understanding]] that the [[purpose]] of [[prayer]] was to [[change]] me, not to change [[God]]. So I guess where the [[conflict]] comes for me is if I were not to [[pray]] for someone, does that mean that [[God]] wouldn't act favorably on that person just as if He would act if I did pray?

A. You make the statement "the purpose is not to change yourself, but to change God."

A. You make the [[statement]] "the purpose is not to change yourself, but to change God."

Q.. No. It's the other way around. To change himself and not God.

Q.. No. It's the other way around. To change himself and not God.

A. How is it that you can change God?

A. How is it that you can change God?

Q. He's not saying that Welmek. He's saying the purpose of prayer is to change himself and not change God.

Q. He's not saying that Welmek. He's saying the [[purpose]] of [[prayer]] is to change himself and not change God.

Q. I think it's a rhetorical question.'

Q. I think it's a [[rhetorical]] question.'

A. When you pray, select an individual that you seek help for. Picture if you can that individual in your mind, for this will help you to focus more clearly. Think for a while about that which you really want for this individual. Be as specific as you can. In doing this, it becomes conversational. Think in terms, as I have said, not only about the individual, but also how you can help, if indeed this is possible. Does this help you?

A. When you [[pray]], select an [[individual]] that you seek help for. [[Picture]] if you can that [[individual]] in your [[mind]], for this will help you to [[focus]] more clearly. [[Think]] for a while about that which you really want for this [[individual]]. Be as specific as you can. In doing this, it becomes [[conversational]]. Think in terms, as I have said, not only about the [[individual]], but also how you can help, if indeed this is possible. Does this help you?

Q. Yes.

Q. Yes.

Q. Welmek, sometimes if I pray for someone, and when you talk about specifics, not only do I pray that they have strength and courage to deal with whatever circumstance they're in, but sometimes I also include, for instance, if it's a material problem, in other words lack of money or a place to live or something of that nature, sometimes I feel like that may not be proper. Should you just pray for them to have the strength, courage and guidance to deal with the situation or actually pray to change that situation?

Q. Welmek, sometimes if I [[pray]] for someone, and when you talk about specifics, not only do I [[pray]] that they have [[strength]] and [[courage]] to deal with whatever [[circumstance]] they're in, but sometimes I also include, for instance, if it's a [[material]] [[problem]], in other words lack of [[money]] or a place to live or something of that [[nature]], sometimes I feel like that may not be proper. Should you just pray for them to have the [[strength]], [[courage]] and [[guidance]] to deal with the situation or actually pray to [[change]] that situation?

A. You should encourage them to be able to take care of themselves. That is ultimately what your prayer is designed to do. Praying for them to change outside of themselves is not effective. Pray that they receive the wisdom and insight necessary to make their own decisions to effect the change necessary in their own life. When you think of yourself and your association with them, think in terms of what can I do that would help this person gain a better insight into themself?

A. You should [[encourage]] them to be able to take [[care]] of themselves. That is [[ultimately]] what your [[prayer]] is designed to do. [[Praying]] for them to [[change]] outside of themselves is not [[effective]]. Pray that they [[receive]] the [[wisdom]] and [[insight]] [[necessary]] to make their own [[decisions]] to [[effect]] the [[change]] [[necessary]] in their own life. When you think of yourself and your [[association]] with them, think in terms of what can I do that would help this [[person]] gain a better [[insight]] into themself?

Q. When I think of what Mary was talking about, I think of that as kind of my counseling session. You know, when I am confused about something, you made the comment before that when we're confused about something we go to our friends, we go to our parents, we talk about all this stuff, and I feel that I've learned to go to my Adjuster, the God that's within me, and so in essence it is a prayer, but also it's more like just a conversation, just knowing that He is within me and that I can really find the answers there because nobody loves me like God does. I know that He will always give me the true answers that I need, and so I think sometimes that is repetitious because you're just talking things out with Him, not necessarily making a request of sorts.

Q. When I think of what Mary was talking about, I [[think]] of that as kind of my [[counseling]] session. You know, when I am [[confused]] about something, you made the comment before that when we're confused about something we go to our [[friends]], we go to our [[parents]], we talk about all this stuff, and I feel that I've learned to go to my [[Adjuster]], the God that's within me, and so in [[essence]] it is a [[prayer]], but also it's more like just a [[conversation]], just knowing that He is within me and that I can really find the answers there because nobody [[loves]] me like [[God]] does. I know that He will always give me the true answers that I need, and so I [[think]] sometimes that is [[repetitious]] because you're just talking things out with Him, not necessarily making a request of sorts.

Q. Welmek, I have a [[question]] about [[worship]]. When I think of worship or when I [[practice]] worship, I do so in a way of [[thanksgiving]] to [[God]], to [[the Father]]. I'm [[wondering]] if it would be best to also apply the same [[philosophy]] of thanking God for [[different]] things daily rather than using the same things over and over.

Q. Welmek, I have a question about worship. When I think of worship or when I practice worship, I do so in a way of thanksgiving to God, to the Father. I'm wondering if it would be best to also apply the same philosophy of thanking God for different things daily rather than using the same things over and over.

A. My suggestion to all of you in terms of [[worship]] is to learn how to better [[simply]] talk to [[the Father]] as a [[good]] [[friend]]. You do not always have to give [[thanks]] each and every time unless you find something [[different]] to give thanks for. Simply [[learn]] within your own [[mind]] to talk and to [[listen]]. It really doesn't matter so much the [[content]] as it does the attempt, for it is the attempt that helps to spiritualize your [[soul]]. It is the attempt that helps to lay the groundwork for the [[spirit fragment]] to work within the [[superconscious]] [[mind]]. It is always the attempt that means more, [[literally]], than the [[words]]. Does this make sense to you?

A. My suggestion to all of you in terms of worship is to learn how to better simply talk to the Father as a good friend. You do not always have to give thanks each and every time unless you find something different to give thanks for. Simply learn within your own mind to talk and to listen. It really doesn't matter so much the content as it does the attempt, for it is the attempt that helps to spiritualize your soul. It is the attempt that helps to lay the groundwork for the spirit fragment to work within the superconscious mind. It is always the attempt that means more, literally, than the words. Does this make sense to you?

A. I would also suggest a [[difference]] as far as focusing on [[prayer]] and [[worship]]. Confine within your [[mind]] [[prayer]] within the [[local universe]]. Prayer is not [[responded]] to at this level outside of the [[local universe]]. If you pray to the [[heavenly Father]] to soothe the [[pain]] of another [[individual]], that prayer is [[automatically]] redirected; for [[the Father]] does not respond directly to [[prayer]] as you understand it. [[Worship]] [[the Father]]. That does [[literally]] go outside the [[local universe]]. But all [[prayer]] is contained and enacted within the [[universe]], our [[local universe]].

A. I would also suggest a difference as far as focusing on prayer and worship. Confine within your mind prayer within the local universe. Prayer is not responded to at this level outside of the local universe. If you pray to the heavenly Father to soothe the pain of another individual, that prayer is automatically redirected; for the Father does not respond directly to prayer as you understand it. Worship the Father. That does literally go outside the local universe. But all prayer is contained and enacted within the universe, our local universe.

Q. Does that mean, then, that prayer should be directed towards [[Michael]]?

Q. Does that mean, then, that prayer should be directed towards Michael?

A. I would suggest as a rule, yes. If indeed it needs to be redirected, you must [[trust]] the [[angels]] and others to redirect it as it needs to be done.

A. I would suggest as a rule, yes. If indeed it needs to be redirected, you must trust the angels and others to redirect it as it needs to be done.

Q. Welmek, we have a [[Thought Adjuster]] that's close by. What's wrong with praying to the Thought Adjuster?

A. If you [[wish]] to [[focus]] your [[attention]] to the [[spirit fragment]] in this regard you may do so. However, once again, the [[spirit fragment]] is directly related, he is [[literally]] tied in to [[the Father]]. I would more likely [[encourage]] you to [[worship]] through this spirit fragment than to [[pray]].

 

A. If you wish to focus your attention to the spirit fragment in this regard you may do so. However, once again, the spirit fragment is directly related, he is literally tied in to the Father. I would more likely encourage you to worship through this spirit fragment than to pray.

Q. Getting back to the [[spirit fragment]], the spirit fragment is pre- personal. He does not have [[personality]]. Am I correct?

 

Q. Getting back to the spirit fragment, the spirit fragment is pre- personal. He does not have personality. Am I correct?

A. Yes.

A. Yes.

Q. When you worship the Father, the Father is a person. The Thought Adjuster is not because he's pre-personal. Help me here, because I'm confused.

Q. When you [[worship]] [[the Father]], the [[Father]] is a [[person]]. The [[Thought Adjuster]] is not because he's pre-personal. Help me here, because I'm [[confused]].

 

A. First of all, you must understand that the Father is more than just a person. He is more than personality. How is it that the Father knows about you specifically other than through this spirit fragment? It is through this spirit fragment that your identity is made known to Him. It is through this spirit fragment that your worship is literally transmitted, is made known to Him.

Q. So when I do worship the Father, I'm actually worshiping...or when I want to communicate to the Thought Adjuster, it is a person that I'm communicating with or attempting to.

A. First of all, you must [[understand]] that [[the Father]] is more than just a [[person]]. He is more than personality. How is it that the Father knows about you specifically other than through this [[spirit fragment]]? It is through this spirit fragment that your [[identity]] is made known to Him. It is through this spirit fragment that your [[worship]] is literally [[transmitted]], is made known to Him.

A. You are in a sense, as I through David now, communicating through the Thought Adjuster to the Father. Does that help you conceptualize that better?

Q. So when I do [[worship]] [[the Father]], I'm actually worshiping...or when I want to [[communicate]] to the [[Thought Adjuster]], it is a [[person]] that I'm communicating with or attempting to.

Q. Would you say the Thought Adjuster, although he's pre-personal, he's also super-personal? Or does that word not exist for the Thought Adjuster?

A. You are in a sense, as I through David now, [[communicating]] through the [[Thought Adjuster]] to [[the Father]]. Does that help you [[conceptualize]] that better?

A. No, I would say more accurately, as you did, I would conceive of it as a pre-personal entity, a gift of the Father Himself. In time, as you know, this spirit fragment will become personal as you become eternal.

Q. Would you say the [[Thought Adjuster]], although he's pre-personal, he's also super-personal? Or does that [[word]] not exist for the Thought Adjuster?

Q. Welmek, you talked about the energy that is produced by prayer. Is that energy more effective when it's done by more people? Is there more energy produced that's more effective in making a change?

Q. Welmek, you talked about the [[energy]] that is produced by [[prayer]]. Is that energy more effective when it's done by more people? Is there more energy produced that's more [[effective]] in making a [[change]]?

A. Yes.

A. Yes.

Q. Is it more effective when it's done simultaneously or is it a cumulative thing . .for an individual situation?

Q. Is it more effective when it's done [[simultaneously]] or is it a cumulative thing . .for an [[individual]] situation?

A. It has to do more with the sincerity and the focus of the prayer, in response to your question.

A. It has to do more with the [[sincerity]] and the focus of the prayer, in response to your question.

Q. So the more sincerity, the more energy perhaps?

Q. So the more sincerity, the more [[energy]] perhaps?

A. The more sincerity, the more effective the prayer becomes. The more effective the prayer is, indeed, the more energy that is created.

A. The more [[sincerity]], the more [[effective]] the [[prayer]] becomes. The more effective the prayer is, indeed, the more [[energy]] that is created.

Q. Would it be useful for us to pick directions for us to focus on then in our group?

Q. Would it be useful for us to pick [[directions]] for us to [[focus]] on then in our [[group]]?

A. What would you say to that question?

A. What would you say to that [[question]]?

Q. I would think it would be, yes.

Q. I would think it would be, yes.

A. And so it is. Does not your text refer to this in both prayer and worship?

A. And so it is. Does not [[your text]] refer to this in both [[prayer]] and [[worship]]?

Q. Yes. I was interested that you started tonight's session with prayer, because I've wondered about bringing prayer and worship into this meeting time, if that would be an effective thing for us to do.

Q. Yes. I was interested that you started tonight's session with [[prayer]], because I've wondered about bringing [[prayer]] and [[worship]] into this [[meeting]] time, if that would be an [[effective]] thing for us to do.

A. While I take the few moments before we begin conversation, as you do, I worship the Father. I do not require anything specific of you. It is your time to do as you wish. I would encourage you all to do the same thing.

A. While I take the few [[moments]] before we begin [[conversation]], as you do, I [[worship]] [[the Father]]. I do not require anything specific of you. It is your time to do as you [[wish]]. I would [[encourage]] you all to do the same thing.

Q. Welmek, I'm saying this on a personal level for myself and I'm probably going to get into deep water here...You keep using the word "wisdom" and you're going to get upset with me in this, okay? That just frightens me to death, because every time I've ever prayed for wisdom, I always find myself in a situation that is so difficult to get out of that it takes six months to a year to even get out of it. I learn the wisdom, that's fine; but it's not something that I want to repeat again. So how do we pray on a personal level? Can you give me an example of how you pray for yourself so that we could have an example for ourselves?

Q. Welmek, I'm saying this on a [[personal]] level for myself and I'm probably going to get into deep water here...You keep using the [[word]] "[[wisdom]]" and you're going to get upset with me in this, okay? That just [[frightens]] me to [[death]], because every time I've ever [[prayed]] for [[wisdom]], I always find myself in a situation that is so [[difficult]] to get out of that it takes six months to a year to even get out of it. I [[learn]] the [[wisdom]], that's fine; but it's not something that I want to [[repeat]] again. So how do we pray on a [[personal]] level? Can you give me an example of how you [[pray]] for yourself so that we could have an [[example]] for ourselves?

A. My prayer for myself consists primarily as follows: I ask that I be given the insight necessary to formulate the idea or response to any situation that requires my attention. It is important that I understand how best to serve the Father, to do His will. In asking this, I literally ask for the wisdom necessary to perform what it is I need to perform. However, you must understand that it takes time for wisdom to become fully realized in our conscious mind, yours and mine. It is not something that is necessarily given. Many times you must go through the trials and tribulations of your daily life before you have learned what it is, the wisdom that you have gained from this situation. But nevertheless, for yourself, what more could you possibly pray for that would really have any real impact on your life, rather than this wisdom or insight?

A. My prayer for myself consists primarily as follows: I ask that I be given the [[insight]] [[necessary]] to [[formulate]] the [[idea]] or [[response]] to any situation that requires my [[attention]]. It is important that I [[understand]] how best to serve [[the Father]], to do His will. In asking this, I [[literally]] ask for the [[wisdom]] necessary to [[perform]] what it is I need to perform. However, you must [[understand]] that it takes [[time]] for wisdom to become fully [[realized]] in our [[conscious]] mind, yours and mine. It is not something that is necessarily given. Many times you must go through the [[trials]] and [[tribulations]] of your daily life before you have learned what it is, the [[wisdom]] that you have gained from this situation. But nevertheless, for yourself, what more could you possibly pray for that would really have any real [[impact]] on your life, rather than this [[wisdom]] or [[insight]]?

Q. I don't know, but I know that my life has been difficult enough without adding any more on top of it. And I'm not so sure that I want to add anything else on top of it.

Q. I don't know, but I know that my life has been [[difficult]] enough without adding any more on top of it. And I'm not so sure that I want to add anything else on top of it.

A. What do you mean by "add on top of it"?

A. What do you mean by "add on top of it"?

Q. Okay. Right now I have a 4-year-old who has medical problems. I have a husband who has medical problems. I have medical problems. I have a son who has, at best, a very vague relationship. I have a daughter who's going down a wrong road, and I have no idea how to get around it. If I take on the world problems plus pray for everybody else in here...okay maybe I want to be selfish and just pray for my own family. Then I don't feel like I need to take on the world's problems or prayers or anything else because we have enough within this group and my own family without adding anything else. I mean, I always feel so burdened and so pressured even though it's only just one time you're asking for, I would feel that would be..I don't know, it's just too much for me.

Q. Okay. Right now I have a 4-year-old who has [[medical]] problems. I have a [[husband]] who has medical [[problems]]. I have medical problems. I have a son who has, at best, a very [[vague]] [[relationship]]. I have a daughter who's going down a wrong road, and I have no [[idea]] how to get around it. If I take on the world [[problems]] plus pray for everybody else in here...okay maybe I want to be [[selfish]] and just [[pray]] for my own [[family]]. Then I don't feel like I need to take on the world's [[problems]] or prayers or anything else because we have enough within this [[group]] and my own [[family]] without adding anything else. I mean, I always feel so burdened and so [[pressured]] even though it's only just one time you're asking for, I would [[feel]] that would be..I don't know, it's just too much for me.

A. May I ask you a question?

A. May I ask you a [[question]]?

Q. You always do, go for it.

Q. You always do, go for it.

A. How is it that praying for let us say, your president, that he be guided by wisdom, that he be motivated by love, that he use the insight necessary to make the decisions necessary to lead your country in the right direction, how does doing something like that burden your life now?

A. How is it that [[praying]] for let us say, your president, that he be guided by [[wisdom]], that he be [[motivated]] by [[love]], that he use the [[insight]] [[necessary]] to make the [[decisions]] necessary to lead your country in the right [[direction]], how does doing something like that burden your life now?

Q. I don't think it's such a burden, that's not what I thought of because I do keep that one person in my prayers because he needs to lead the country. So that's kind of in my family, as I put it. But you know, you're asking for world problems. All the hungry kids in the world, I mean, we could go for years and just pick one child out or one country, one county of that country, one township, and never get through within a year.

Q. I don't think it's such a burden, that's not what I [[thought]] of because I do keep that one person in my prayers because he needs to [[lead]] the country. So that's kind of in my [[family]], as I put it. But you know, you're asking for world [[problems]]. All the [[hungry]] kids in the world, I mean, we could go for years and just pick one child out or one country, one county of that country, one township, and never get through within a year.

A. Nevertheless do you not realize that all that it takes is a concentrated effort on your part, a sincere heart, to make a petition that this situation be changed and that you have literally added to the cumulative effect, to the cumulative energy necessary to help make this change? If you find that these types of prayers add to the burdens of your life, then obviously I would not ask you to do this. However, if you have listened to what I have said, and discerned my meaning, you will realize that as time goes on, if you pray each day, year after year after year, in the course of your life you will, I believe, find time to literally pray beyond the realm of people that you now know. Do you understand what I mean?

A. Nevertheless do you not [[realize]] that all that it takes is a [[concentrated]] [[effort]] on your part, a [[sincere]] [[heart]], to make a [[petition]] that this situation be changed and that you have [[literally]] added to the cumulative [[effect]], to the cumulative [[energy]] [[necessary]] to help make this [[change]]? If you find that these types of prayers add to the burdens of your life, then obviously I would not ask you to do this. However, if you have [[listened]] to what I have said, and [[discerned]] my [[meaning]], you will [[realize]] that as [[time]] goes on, if you pray each day, year after year after year, in the course of your life you will, I [[believe]], find time to [[literally]] pray beyond the realm of people that you now know. Do you [[understand]] what I mean?

Q. Part of it I understand. Will you tell me how an accumulative prayer works?

Q. Part of it I [[understand]]. Will you tell me how an accumulative [[prayer]] works?

A. An accumulative prayer works inasmuch as when individuals pray for another person or situation, there is as we have discussed, energy generated. It is this energy that helps us to manipulate situations, to encourage individuals to respond in certain ways.

A. An accumulative prayer works inasmuch as when [[individuals]] pray for another [[person]] or situation, there is as we have [[discussed]], [[energy]] generated. It is this energy that helps us to [[manipulate]] situations, to [[encourage]] [[individuals]] to [[respond]] in certain ways.

Q. So what you're saying is, if each one of us focus on a specific problem and at a specific time say this prayer, that will help change the world?

Q. So what you're saying is, if each one of us [[focus]] on a specific [[problem]] and at a specific time say this [[prayer]], that will help [[change]] the world?

A. Yes.

A. Yes.

Q. I have to think about that one.

Q. I have to [[think]] about that one.

A. It does not necessarily, however, have to be at the same time; but it does have to be sincere and it does have to be well thought out. If you generalize your prayer and say "God help the starving children." that is somewhat uneffective. Try and be as specific as you can. In other words, think like this: "Michael, help those in charge within the United Nations to use the wisdom necessary to get the food and supplies to the starving children of the world. Help protect them from their enemies so that these children may truly benefit from that which they so deservedly and wantingly need." Do you see the difference in what I suggest here? You must, in order to be effective, use your thought, use your reason. Picture this in your mind, and it will help.

A. It does not necessarily, however, have to be at the [[same time]]; but it does have to be [[sincere]] and it does have to be well [[thought]] out. If you generalize your [[prayer]] and say "God help the [[starving]] children." that is somewhat uneffective. Try and be as specific as you can. In other [[words]], think like this: "[[Michael]], help those in charge within the United Nations to use the [[wisdom]] necessary to get the [[food]] and supplies to the starving children of the world. Help protect them from their [[enemies]] so that these [[children]] may truly benefit from that which they so deservedly and wantingly need." Do you see the [[difference]] in what I suggest here? You must, in order to be [[effective]], use your [[thought]], use your reason. [[Picture]] this in your mind, and it will help.

Q. I'll give it a whirl.

Q. I'll give it a whirl.

A. Is there something else yet that you do not understand?

A. Is there something else yet that you do not [[understand]]?

Q. No, I'm fine with it. I'm just going to digest it and go on.

Q. No, I'm fine with it. I'm just going to digest it and go on.

Q. I want to ask you Marva, do you think that if you pray for somebody that you have to take on responsibility for that person?

Q. I want to ask you Marva, do you think that if you pray for somebody that you have to take on [[responsibility]] for that [[person]]?

Q. No.

Q. No.

Q. Because that's what it sounds like.

Q. Because that's what it [[sounds]] like.

Q. No, no. It's just that tonight has been a bad night and more responsibility added on top of me is more than I can handle. But it's okay, I understand where he's coming from.

Q. No, no. It's just that tonight has been a bad night and more [[responsibility]] added on top of me is more than I can handle. But it's okay, I [[understand]] where he's coming from.

A. Do not look at this as a responsibility, for if you understand effective and sincere prayer, it actually is a privilege and an honor to be able to request within the universe help, love, assistance, for another.

A. Do not look at this as a [[responsibility]], for if you understand effective and [[sincere]] [[prayer]], it actually is a [[privilege]] and an [[honor]] to be able to request within [[the universe]] help, [[love]], [[assistance]], for another.

Q. No, I understand that, helping other people. I guess where I've had a problem is really on a personal level, asking for help for myself. I mean, I was taught as a child and all the way up through that praying for yourself is selfish and that God knows what you want and what you need and He'll give it to you without asking. So when we go down and ask, you know, for me to ask for something specific for myself it's very difficult.

Q. No, I [[understand]] that, helping other people. I guess where I've had a [[problem]] is really on a [[personal]] level, asking for help for myself. I mean, I was taught as a child and all the way up through that [[praying]] for yourself is [[selfish]] and that [[God]] knows what you want and what you need and He'll give it to you without asking. So when we go down and ask, you know, for me to ask for something specific for myself it's very [[difficult]].

A. Remember, as we have discussed, however, for yourself specifically, what is it that we are asking for? What is it that you are asking for? Does not it boil down to your asking for the wisdom or insight necessary for you to live a fuller life, for you to be able to help those that are close to you? This is all that you are asking for. Indeed, it is a fact that the Father knows these things before you. Nevertheless, I encourage you to do this; for this focuses your mind on a specific situation. And I believe if you learn to do this effectively, it will help you in your daily living.

A. Remember, as we have [[discussed]], however, for yourself specifically, what is it that we are asking for? What is it that you are asking for? Does not it boil down to your asking for the [[wisdom]] or [[insight]] [[necessary]] for you to live a fuller life, for you to be able to help those that are close to you? This is all that you are asking for. Indeed, it is a [[fact]] that the Father knows these things before you. Nevertheless, I [[encourage]] you to do this; for this [[focuses]] your [[mind]] on a specific situation. And I believe if you [[learn]] to do this effectively, it will help you in your daily living.

Q. Welmek, I want to touch on something that Marva touched on also. She mentioned that when she prays for wisdom that she is given a challenge to overcome and it takes her a period of time to overcome it, and when she's overcome it she's gained wisdom. Is this typical of how things like this work, or is there other ways, or whatever? Can you help us out in that?

Q. Welmek, I want to touch on something that Marva touched on also. She mentioned that when she [[prays]] for [[wisdom]] that she is given a [[challenge]] to overcome and it takes her a period of time to overcome it, and when she's overcome it she's gained [[wisdom]]. Is this typical of how things like this work, or is there other ways, or whatever? Can you help us out in that?

A. If I understand your question, when you pray for wisdom or insight, there are not necessarily challenges, obstacles, put in your path. It is simply an opportunity for you to be able to penetrate through the mind as well as the heart, an insight and understanding as to how to resolve or give advice in any particular situation. It does not necessarily require much action or effort on your part. Does that help you?

A. If I [[understand]] your question, when you [[pray]] for [[wisdom]] or [[insight]], there are not necessarily [[challenges]], [[obstacles]], put in your [[path]]. It is simply an [[opportunity]] for you to be able to [[penetrate]] through the [[mind]] as well as the [[heart]], an [[insight]] and [[understanding]] as to how to resolve or give [[advice]] in any particular situation. It does not necessarily require much [[action]] or [[effort]] on your part. Does that help you?

Q. Yes. I think that narrows it down somewhat, and at least the question about challenges. To be specific, I think it said in the Urantia Book that some challenges are brought to you to learn certain lessons or is also belief in a lot of religions or at least people are challenged so that they will learn certain lessons, and when they learn that lesson they move on to the next lesson or effort or whatever. Is this the way things work?

Q. Yes. I think that narrows it down somewhat, and at least the question about [[challenges]]. To be specific, I [[think]] it said in the [[Urantia Book]] that some [[challenges]] are brought to you to [[learn]] certain lessons or is also [[belief]] in a lot of [[religions]] or at least people are challenged so that they will learn certain lessons, and when they learn that lesson they move on to the next lesson or [[effort]] or whatever. Is this the way things work?

A. Indeed.

A. Indeed.

Q. Okay. How are these challenges brought to us and why or what....?

Q. Okay. How are these [[challenges]] brought to us and why or what....?

A. They are brought to you in a variety of ways, much of which you already know based on your text and what we have discussed. I would suggest to each one here tonight that you never know when you encounter an individual what the full range of circumstances are, especially those people that you have never met before. Always try to do the best that you can, learn to love that individual as best you can. Beyond that I will not comment.

A. They are brought to you in a [[variety]] of ways, much of which you already know based on your text and what we have discussed. I would suggest to each one here tonight that you never know when you encounter an individual what the full range of circumstances are, especially those people that you have never met before. Always try to do the best that you can, learn to love that individual as best you can. Beyond that I will not comment.

Q. When you were talking about how you pray for the group before we actually start the meeting, how do you keep those kinds of prayers from becoming redundant?

Q. When you were talking about how you pray for the group before we actually start the meeting, how do you keep those kinds of prayers from becoming redundant?