Changes

M: The major thing that I see is the [[sensationalism]] of it, and obviously it's unprecedented. It will create significant interest, world-wide, and I just think it's impossible for us to foresee what we're headed for.  

M: The major thing that I see is the [[sensationalism]] of it, and obviously it's unprecedented. It will create significant interest, world-wide, and I just think it's impossible for us to foresee what we're headed for.  

K: Well, we can see what's happened in places like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima Fatima] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medjugorje Medjugorje] and places like this where people plan [[pilgrimages]] just to be in a place where [[Mother Mary|Mary]] was seen so that can give you a little bit of a [[perspective]] of what we're talking about here.  

K: Well, we can see what's happened in places like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima Fatima] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medjugorje Medjugorje] and places like this where people plan [[pilgrimages]] just to be in a place where [[Mother Mary|Mary]] was seen so that can give you a little bit of a [[perspective]] of what we're talking about here.  

M: It's your house they're coming to. (laughter)  

M: It's your house they're coming to. (laughter)  

K: Well, you'll have to provide me with a maid. ([[laughter]])

K: Well, you'll have to provide me with a maid. ([[laughter]])

WELMEK: Consider this. Are any of you [[prepared]] for let us say, someone within your [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media news media] to come to you and to grill you with questions about the supposed [[visualization]] and what it means? I am not saying that this will necessarily happen; but I am saying that as the [[word]] does spread, and I guarantee you it will, are you [[prepared]] to take the [[responsibility]] that goes along with this? There is definitely [[responsibility]]. There, again, are many, many aspects to consider. I have only [[shared]] a handful with you, and it causes you to stop and [[think]]. If you could only see on my side the [[debate]], [[discussion]] that takes place as to the [[wisdom]] in one [[act]] over another. Ultimately, we are [[commissioned]], as [[teachers]], to put together a plan and submit it to [[Machiventa]]. He in turn will take this plan to [[Michael]]. If approved by [[Michael]], then watch out.([[laughter]])

WELMEK: Consider this. Are any of you [[prepared]] for let us say, someone within your [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media news media] to come to you and to grill you with questions about the supposed [[visualization]] and what it means? I am not saying that this will necessarily happen; but I am saying that as the [[word]] does spread, and I guarantee you it will, are you [[prepared]] to take the [[responsibility]] that goes along with this? There is definitely [[responsibility]]. There, again, are many, many aspects to consider. I have only [[shared]] a handful with you, and it causes you to stop and [[think]]. If you could only see on my side the [[debate]], [[discussion]] that takes place as to the [[wisdom]] in one [[act]] over another. Ultimately, we are [[commissioned]], as [[teachers]], to put together a plan and submit it to [[Machiventa]]. He in turn will take this plan to [[Michael]]. If approved by [[Michael]], then watch out.([[laughter]])

Q: Welmek, what about the possibility of making that [[visualization]] to an individual in a [[private]] session versus making it to a [[group]], and then having people who really don't [[understand]] anything about this at this [[point]] come for the [[curiosity]] of it? That would reinforce the [[individual]]'s [[faith]], as they were brought into this and wanted to [[understand]] it more, and to some degree eliminate some of those other [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensationalism sensational] elements.

Q: Welmek, what about the possibility of making that [[visualization]] to an individual in a [[private]] session versus making it to a [[group]], and then having people who really don't [[understand]] anything about this at this [[point]] come for the [[curiosity]] of it? That would reinforce the [[individual]]'s [[faith]], as they were brought into this and wanted to [[understand]] it more, and to some degree eliminate some of those other [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensationalism sensational] elements.

Q: I [[volunteer]].

Q: I [[volunteer]].

A: It is a matter of [[quality]], not [[quantity]]. What I want you to be able to do is to [[feel]] this [[love]] inside of yourself. That is [[paramount]]; for in [[feeling]] this [[love]], you will do much to benefit not only your [[physical]] [[mechanism]], but you will [[prepare]] the way that will allow us to bring people to you.

A: It is a matter of [[quality]], not [[quantity]]. What I want you to be able to do is to [[feel]] this [[love]] inside of yourself. That is [[paramount]]; for in [[feeling]] this [[love]], you will do much to benefit not only your [[physical]] [[mechanism]], but you will [[prepare]] the way that will allow us to bring people to you.

Q: The [[visualization]] [[technique]] that [[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1992-11-08-Healing#Music.2C_Vision|Andrea gave us on Sunday]] was the diamond and the [[spectrum]] of the [[colors]] and the [[light]]. It seems from trying to do this, that that was a little bit more [[effective]] in [[feeling]] the [[love]]; but yet I still am kind of [[perplexed]] why that [[visualization]] works so much better than just trying to [[think]] about [[the Father]]. Can you [[clarify]] that for me?

Q: The [[visualization]] [[technique]] that [[https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1992-11-08-Healing#Music.2C_Vision|Andrea gave us on Sunday]] was the diamond and the [[spectrum]] of the [[colors]] and the [[light]]. It seems from trying to do this, that that was a little bit more [[effective]] in [[feeling]] the [[love]]; but yet I still am kind of [[perplexed]] why that [[visualization]] works so much better than just trying to [[think]] about [[the Father]]. Can you [[clarify]] that for me?

A: It is only one attempt at a [[visualization]] [[process]]. In that [[meeting]] there were varying [[degrees]] of [[attunement]]. I [[encourage]] you to find your own [[technique]]. [[Humans]] will continually ask us to help them, to give them something to [[focus]] on. Andrea selected this as just one way of doing this. It matters not what [[symbols]] you use. She was [[clear]] on this [[point]]. We are not trying to [[engage]] you in any [[mystical]] [[interaction]] whatsoever. What we want you to be able to do is to settle your [[mind]], (most of you have made comments that you have [[difficulty]] in doing this) settling your mind and allowing the [[feeling]] to swell up from within. There will be considerable [[discussion]] about this [[feeling]] next week, but in [[essence]] it is the feeling of [[love]] from within that will help to [[heal]] your whole [[body]] as well as your [[mind]].

A: It is only one attempt at a [[visualization]] [[process]]. In that [[meeting]] there were varying [[degrees]] of [[attunement]]. I [[encourage]] you to find your own [[technique]]. [[Humans]] will continually ask us to help them, to give them something to [[focus]] on. Andrea selected this as just one way of doing this. It matters not what [[symbols]] you use. She was [[clear]] on this [[point]]. We are not trying to [[engage]] you in any [[mystical]] [[interaction]] whatsoever. What we want you to be able to do is to settle your [[mind]], (most of you have made comments that you have [[difficulty]] in doing this) settling your mind and allowing the [[feeling]] to swell up from within. There will be considerable [[discussion]] about this [[feeling]] next week, but in [[essence]] it is the feeling of [[love]] from within that will help to [[heal]] your whole [[body]] as well as your [[mind]].

M:No.

M:No.

Q:I didn't either. One of the things that I wanted to ask about was [[forebearance]]. We talked a lot about [[patience]], mentioned [[tolerance]], but I gather that forebearance as [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=118:1_Time_and_Eternity used in the Urantia Book (118:1.6)] is even more [[developed]] than [[tolerance]]. I'm not sure about this. Is it a correct [[assumption]] on my part that the way the [[words]] are used in [[the book]] that you go from [[patience]] to [[tolerance]] to [[forebearance]]; or have I missed something?

Q:I didn't either. One of the things that I wanted to ask about was [[forbearance]]. We talked a lot about [[patience]], mentioned [[tolerance]], but I gather that forbearance as [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=118:1_Time_and_Eternity used in the Urantia Book (118:1.6)] is even more [[developed]] than [[tolerance]]. I'm not sure about this. Is it a correct [[assumption]] on my part that the way the [[words]] are used in [[the book]] that you go from [[patience]] to [[tolerance]] to [[forbearance]]; or have I missed something?

A:No, you have not missed anything. I would suggest to you that in [[reference]] to [[forebearance]] you might consider it as durability, the [[ability]] to withstand the time that it takes in order to [[achieve]] the [[oneness]] that you seek.

A:No, you have not missed anything. I would suggest to you that in [[reference]] to [[forbearance]] you might consider it as durability, the [[ability]] to withstand the time that it takes in order to [[achieve]] the [[oneness]] that you seek.

Q:But in that case is the [[ability]] you talk about based upon a deeper [[understanding]] of the [[relationship]] to that [[event]] and [[time]]?

Q:But in that case is the [[ability]] you talk about based upon a deeper [[understanding]] of the [[relationship]] to that [[event]] and [[time]]?

===='''''[[Faith]]'''''====

===='''''[[Faith]]'''''====

A:It is not necessarily a deeper [[understanding]] of the [[event]], although in [[time]] this will come. What it deals with directly is a deeper [[understanding]] of [[the Father]]'s [[relationship]] to you, your [[faith]]-grasp of the Father. None of you gathered here this evening completely live the [[faith]] which you have.

A:It is not necessarily a deeper [[understanding]] of the [[event]], although in [[time]] this will come. What it deals with directly is a deeper [[understanding]] of [[the Father]]'s [[relationship]] to you, your [[faith]]-grasp of the Father. None of you gathered here this evening completely live the [[faith]] which you have.

A: An example of [[developing]] [[faith]] would be one's own [[ability]] to [[commune]] with the [[spirit fragment]]. The more you [[engage]] in this [[practice]], [[intelligently]], [[wisely]], engage in this [[practice]], the sooner you will [[facilitate]] the [[communication]].

A: An example of [[developing]] [[faith]] would be one's own [[ability]] to [[commune]] with the [[spirit fragment]]. The more you [[engage]] in this [[practice]], [[intelligently]], [[wisely]], engage in this [[practice]], the sooner you will [[facilitate]] the [[communication]].

Q:Well, you know we talked about [[effective]] [[prayer]] for two weeks, and I don't know if we ever really talked about effective [[worship]]. There are times when I think that I am [[worshiping]], but there seems to be a point where it becomes [[redundant]]. I know you said that in [[worship]] it doesn't matter if we say the same thing over and over, but yet there just seems to be level of [[worship]] that kind of reaches a [[plateau]]. I don't know how to get to a deeper [[depth]] of [[worship]].

Q:Well, you know we talked about [[effective]] [[prayer]] for two weeks, and I don't know if we ever really talked about effective [[worship]]. There are times when I think that I am [[worshiping]], but there seems to be a point where it becomes redundant. I know you said that in [[worship]] it doesn't matter if we say the same thing over and over, but yet there just seems to be level of [[worship]] that kind of reaches a [[plateau]]. I don't know how to get to a deeper [[depth]] of [[worship]].

A: We will engage more fully in this next week. However, I would ask you this [[question]]. Do you, in your [[worship]] each day, talk to [[the Father]] and recount your [[experiences]], the [[decisions]] that you made that either brought you closer or perhaps kept you away from Him?

A: We will engage more fully in this next week. However, I would ask you this [[question]]. Do you, in your [[worship]] each day, talk to [[the Father]] and recount your [[experiences]], the [[decisions]] that you made that either brought you closer or perhaps kept you away from Him?

Q:Sometimes. I guess I could be a lot better at that. That's the answer, right?

Q:Sometimes. I guess I could be a lot better at that. That's the answer, right?

A: Yes. Each day is a new [[opportunity]]. Each day is a new [[adventure]] for each one of you to [[engage]] in this [[faithful]] living. Yet you do not fully [[engage]], for you allow yourselves to devitalize the [[energy]] that you [[consume]] by allowing the [[negative]] [[emotions]] to enter your [[being]] and [[consume]] your [[thoughts]]. This is part of what we will [[discuss]] more fully next week, but it is important that you [[recognize]] these [[emotions]] for what they are and eliminate them as soon as you can. Some of what I say will be inconsistent with what you hear from your current practitioners of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health mental health]; but as I have said before and I will say very [[strongly]] now, there can be no true mental [[rehabilitation]] without a [[conscious]] [[recognition]] of the [[gospel]] of [[Jesus]] as he lived it on [[this planet]]. Until the human race [[recognizes]] that there is a [[the Father|Father]] and that [[Jesus]]' [[message]] was lived for all [[creation]] within [[this universe]], you will find the [[harmony]] that you look for on a [[planetary]] scale. Having said that, we must do this on an [[individual]] basis, once again one of my prime directives in working with you.

A: Yes. Each day is a new [[opportunity]]. Each day is a new [[adventure]] for each one of you to [[engage]] in this [[faithful]] living. Yet you do not fully [[engage]], for you allow yourselves to devitalize the [[energy]] that you [[consume]] by allowing the [[negative]] [[emotions]] to enter your [[being]] and [[consume]] your [[thoughts]]. This is part of what we will [[discuss]] more fully next week, but it is important that you [[recognize]] these [[emotions]] for what they are and eliminate them as soon as you can. Some of what I say will be inconsistent with what you hear from your current practitioners of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_health mental health]; but as I have said before and I will say very [[strongly]] now, there can be no true mental [[rehabilitation]] without a [[conscious]] [[recognition]] of the [[gospel]] of [[Jesus]] as he lived it on [[this planet]]. Until the human race [[recognizes]] that there is a [[the Father|Father]] and that [[Jesus]]' [[message]] was lived for all [[creation]] within [[this universe]], you will find the [[harmony]] that you look for on a [[planetary]] scale. Having said that, we must do this on an [[individual]] basis, once again one of my prime directives in working with you.

It constantly confounds me when I have [[observed]] some of your [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry doctors of mental health] [[counsel]] people with the [[thought]] in [[mind]] that [[God]] is not relevant. It is true that the [[God]] of [[anger]], the God of [[wrath]], the God of [[atonement]] is not true; and therefore I subscribe to them not dwelling on this type of [[creator]]. But it is time to [[wake]] up to the [[reality]] that [[the Father]] is not like this. What [[father]] of [[normal]] [[mind]] would be [[wrathful]], would be [[angry]] at their [[children]]? It makes no [[logical]] sense to us, whatsoever. Yet it prevails on [[your planet]]. Those of you who have been fortunate to [[read]] the [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=UB#Part_IV._The_Life_and_Teachings_of_Jesus teachings and the life of Jesus] in your [[text]] have truly been [[blessed]]. You have been given an [[insight]] beyond what [[normal]] [[mortals]] are able to [[achieve]]. [[Blessed]] are those who live the [[gospel]] of [[Jesus]], yet have not [[read]] [[the book]]. Take the [[faith]] that you have. Live it more fully than you do now.

It constantly confounds me when I have [[observed]] some of your [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry doctors of mental health] [[counsel]] people with the [[thought]] in [[mind]] that [[God]] is not relevant. It is true that the [[God]] of [[anger]], the God of [[wrath]], the God of [[atonement]] is not true; and therefore I subscribe to them not dwelling on this type of [[creator]]. But it is time to [[wake]] up to the [[reality]] that [[the Father]] is not like this. What [[father]] of [[normal]] [[mind]] would be [[wrathful]], would be [[angry]] at their [[children]]? It makes no [[logical]] sense to us, whatsoever. Yet it prevails on [[your planet]]. Those of you who have been fortunate to [[read]] the [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=UB#Part_IV._The_Life_and_Teachings_of_Jesus teachings and the life of Jesus] in your [[text]] have truly been [[blessed]]. You have been given an [[insight]] beyond what [[normal]] [[mortals]] are able to [[achieve]]. [[Blessed]] are those who live the [[gospel]] of [[Jesus]], yet have not [[read]] [[the book]]. Take the [[faith]] that you have. Live it more fully than you do now.

Q: Welmek, I introduced one of my [[friends]] to the [[Urantia Book]]; and she's been [[reading]] it. She has [[questions]] such as this; and she doesn't quite [[understand]] this [[theory]], or this way, that [[God]] is really [[the Father]] and it's people that are causing [[pain]] and [[crime]] and [[anger]] and the [[hatred]] on [[earth]]. I've been trying to explain that; and she can't quite get it. Is there anything that you could tell me to help her [[understand]] a little bit better?

Q: Welmek, I introduced one of my [[friends]] to the [[Urantia Book]]; and she's been [[reading]] it. She has [[questions]] such as this; and she doesn't quite [[understand]] this [[theory]], or this way, that [[God]] is really [[the Father]] and it's people that are causing [[pain]] and [[crime]] and [[anger]] and the [[hatred]] on [[earth]]. I've been trying to explain that; and she can't quite get it. Is there anything that you could tell me to help her [[understand]] a little bit better?

A: I like that way of phrasing it. ([[laughter]])

A: I like that way of phrasing it. ([[laughter]])

===='''''[[Mysticism]]'''''====

===='''''[[Mysticism]]'''''====

Q: Welmek, you mentioned [[mysticism]] earlier as something we should avoid. I'm [[wondering]] if you could elaborate on what are some of the [[negative]] aspects of [[mysticism]] that we should be alerted to.

Q: Welmek, you mentioned [[mysticism]] earlier as something we should avoid. I'm [[wondering]] if you could elaborate on what are some of the [[negative]] aspects of [[mysticism]] that we should be alerted to.

Q: I guess the next question would be, how can we sharpen our [[ability]] to distinguish that which [[emanates]] from our own [[subconscious]] and that which is given to us from [[Thought Adjuster|the spirit]]?

Q: I guess the next question would be, how can we sharpen our [[ability]] to distinguish that which [[emanates]] from our own [[subconscious]] and that which is given to us from [[Thought Adjuster|the spirit]]?

A: This is a most [[difficult]] task for you. I would suggest to you that in the case of if you believe you have [[communication]] from a [[guide]], your [[spirit fragment]], your [[angel]], or another [[source]], that you [[listen]] closely and ask within yourself for [[confirmation]]. Secondly, consider the [[content]] of the [[information]]. What is being said? How does it [[affect]] your life? Ask yourself the basic questions that [[Machiventa]] [[discussed]] in a previous session. If it meets this [[criterion]], although you may still be incorrect in your [[assessment]] of the [[source]], what is most important is that the content has helped you. The concept of [[mysticism]] that I refer to is that [[human]] [[nature]] is inclined, once these [[visualizations]] take place, there seems to be this ability or [[desire]] to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjure conjure] up, if you will, these images. You may not [[consciously]] do this, but nevertheless it does happen. You see things within your [[mind's eye]] and you believe it is a [[manifestation]] of me of a [[spirit]], or [[angel]], or whatever, when in [[fact]] it is only a [[subconscious]] emanation. We had much [[discussion]] whether or not we would [[share]] certain [[symbolization]] [[techniques]] to help you [[focus]]. I was more [[cautious]] than others, but this is my [[nature]]. I watch closely, for I am concerned that any [[techniques]] we [[share]] with you are [[understood]] and used with the proper [[intention]], not to solicit some form of [[mystical]] or unreal [[experience]]. Again, [[accept]] these things as only [[techniques]] of [[focusing]] your [[thought]] as well as your [[feeling]], not that you should see something within the [[colors]] that is not there. You remember that we have [[discussed]] this [[color]] [[phenomenon]] before, and it is just that, a [[natural]] phenomenon. It is not [[representative]] of [[spirit]] [[representation]]. This is inconsistent with certain [[thoughts]], with certain forms of [[ideology]], certain forms of [[thinking]]. Some people will not [[accept]] what I say. I cannot [[change]] that. But what I can tell you is what I know to be part of [[reality]].

A: This is a most [[difficult]] task for you. I would suggest to you that in the case of if you believe you have [[communication]] from a [[guide]], your [[spirit fragment]], your [[angel]], or another [[source]], that you [[listen]] closely and ask within yourself for [[confirmation]]. Secondly, consider the [[content]] of the [[information]]. What is being said? How does it [[affect]] your life? Ask yourself the basic questions that [[Machiventa]] [[discussed]] in a previous session. If it meets this [[criterion]], although you may still be incorrect in your [[assessment]] of the [[source]], what is most important is that the content has helped you. The concept of [[mysticism]] that I refer to is that [[human]] [[nature]] is inclined, once these [[visualizations]] take place, there seems to be this ability or [[desire]] to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjure conjure] up, if you will, these images. You may not [[consciously]] do this, but nevertheless it does happen. You see things within your [[mind's eye]] and you believe it is a [[manifestation]] of me of a [[spirit]], or [[angel]], or whatever, when in [[fact]] it is only a [[subconscious]] emanation. We had much [[discussion]] whether or not we would [[share]] certain [[symbolization]] [[techniques]] to help you [[focus]]. I was more [[cautious]] than others, but this is my [[nature]]. I watch closely, for I am concerned that any [[techniques]] we [[share]] with you are [[understood]] and used with the proper [[intention]], not to solicit some form of [[mystical]] or unreal [[experience]]. Again, [[accept]] these things as only [[techniques]] of [[focusing]] your [[thought]] as well as your [[feeling]], not that you should see something within the [[colors]] that is not there. You remember that we have [[discussed]] this [[color]] [[phenomenon]] before, and it is just that, a [[natural]] phenomenon. It is not [[representative]] of [[spirit]] [[representation]]. This is inconsistent with certain [[thoughts]], with certain forms of [[ideology]], certain forms of [[thinking]]. Some people will not [[accept]] what I say. I cannot [[change]] that. But what I can tell you is what I know to be part of [[reality]].

Q: I guess you're also considering the [[possibility]] of an outbreak of [[mysticism]] when you [[materialize]], huh, on the part of [[humans]]?

Q: I guess you're also considering the [[possibility]] of an outbreak of [[mysticism]] when you [[materialize]], huh, on the part of [[humans]]?

Q: Welmek, do you and the other [[the Teachers|teachers]] kind of foresee the [[materialization]] will be seen by a lot of people on [[earth]] as like the [[Second Coming]]?

Q: Welmek, do you and the other [[the Teachers|teachers]] kind of foresee the [[materialization]] will be seen by a lot of people on [[earth]] as like the [[Second Coming]]?

A: It is a [[consideration]]. How is it when there are those who are [[fearful]] of the [[student]] [[visitors]] coming here who supposedly [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction abduct] them and do these types of things, how is it that they will [[respond]] once they hear of this?

A: It is a [[consideration]]. How is it when there are those who are [[fearful]] of the [[student]] [[visitors]] coming here who supposedly [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction abduct] them and do these types of things, how is it that they will [[respond]] once they hear of this?

Q: It depends on whether you look like them or not.

Q: It depends on whether you look like them or not.

A: I [[assure]] you we do not look as the [[pictures]] depict them to be.

A: I [[assure]] you we do not look as the [[pictures]] depict them to be.

Q: I think the hardest part of spreading the [[word]] after your [[appearance]] is going to be that [[earth]] people don't consider your [[existence]]. If it were [[Christ]] or [[Mother Mary|Mary]] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._joseph Joseph] or a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint saint] or somebody like that making an [[appearance]], they might be able to [[understand]] that a little bit more. But since they don't know of you and they don't [[understand]] what happens after our [[death]] on [[this planet]], and the [[morontial]] form and so on and so forth, I think it's going to be very [[difficult]] to explain to those who have not already read the [[Urantia Book]] and [[understand]] that [[concept]].

Q: I think the hardest part of spreading the [[word]] after your [[appearance]] is going to be that [[earth]] people don't consider your [[existence]]. If it were [[Christ]] or [[Mother Mary|Mary]] or [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._joseph Joseph] or a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint saint] or somebody like that making an [[appearance]], they might be able to [[understand]] that a little bit more. But since they don't know of you and they don't [[understand]] what happens after our [[death]] on [[this planet]], and the [[morontial]] form and so on and so forth, I think it's going to be very [[difficult]] to explain to those who have not already read the [[Urantia Book]] and [[understand]] that [[concept]].

A: All the more reason why each one gathered in this [[group]], if they wish to [[participate]], should have a good [[understanding]] of [[the text]] as well as a strong [[character]].

A: All the more reason why each one gathered in this [[group]], if they wish to [[participate]], should have a good [[understanding]] of [[the text]] as well as a strong [[character]].

A: Who wishes to [[engage]] in this [[response]]? . . Surely most of you at one [[point]] or another have thought of this.  

A: Who wishes to [[engage]] in this [[response]]? . . Surely most of you at one [[point]] or another have thought of this.  

Q; I remember reading in a [[novel]] a few years ago, a [[science fiction]] novel that was about the [[concept]] of [[hell]], and I don't know if Steve has read this or not, but it gives some [[insight]] into if [[hell]] existed, what would it be like? I [[personally]] don't believe in the [[existence]] of [[hell]], but some of the [[ideas]] would be is, one is like a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformatory reformatory], or another would be like a not just an [[infinite]] punishing place or something like that. But in all of these [[fictional]] examples, even going back to [[Dante]]'s [[hell]] from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inferno The Inferno], I don't think that any of them serve the [[purpose]] that they're really [[prescribed]] for. We are here to [[learn]] [[the Father]] and [[learn]] to be better ourselves, and hanging this [[idea]] of a [[hell]] over our heads is not an [[effective]] deterrent, to me, to keep people from doing bad things so to speak. [[Ultimately]] speaking, we all have the [[choice]] to move on in our [[morontial]] career or to not move on. But other than that, there is no reason for a [[hell]].

Q; I remember reading in a [[novel]] a few years ago, a [[science fiction]] novel that was about the [[concept]] of [[hell]], and I don't know if Steve has read this or not, but it gives some [[insight]] into if [[hell]] existed, what would it be like? I [[personally]] don't believe in the [[existence]] of [[hell]], but some of the [[ideas]] would be is, one is like a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformatory reformatory], or another would be like a not just an [[infinite]] punishing place or something like that. But in all of these [[fictional]] examples, even going back to [[Dante]]'s [[hell]] from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inferno The Inferno], I don't think that any of them serve the [[purpose]] that they're really [[prescribed]] for. We are here to [[learn]] [[the Father]] and [[learn]] to be better ourselves, and hanging this [[idea]] of a [[hell]] over our heads is not an [[effective]] deterrent, to me, to keep people from doing bad things so to speak. [[Ultimately]] speaking, we all have the [[choice]] to move on in our [[morontial]] career or to not move on. But other than that, there is no reason for a [[hell]].

Q: You'd have to [[think]] of [[God]] as being a very [[vindictive]], petty [[person]]; and the [[emphasis]] is on the [[word]] "person". If you would [[think]] of Him as wanting to everlastingly [[torment]] and punish someone for something that they did in a relative flicker of [[time]] and maybe even out of a lack of [[understanding]] or [[comprehension]], certainly out of a lack of real [[faith]] or [[belief]] in [[God]], you know, that God would want to do something like that, is so illogical and so inconsistent with even what the [[Bible]] teaches and especially what [[Jesus]] said about having seen him, you've seen [[the Father]]. Anyone who really [[recognized]] what he meant by that would see that it would be incomprehensible for [[the Father]] to want to put that kind of a punishment on anyone for anything that they did while they were [[mortal]].

Q: You'd have to [[think]] of [[God]] as being a very [[vindictive]], petty [[person]]; and the [[emphasis]] is on the [[word]] "person". If you would [[think]] of Him as wanting to everlastingly [[torment]] and punish someone for something that they did in a relative flicker of [[time]] and maybe even out of a lack of [[understanding]] or [[comprehension]], certainly out of a lack of real [[faith]] or [[belief]] in [[God]], you know, that God would want to do something like that, is so illogical and so inconsistent with even what the [[Bible]] teaches and especially what [[Jesus]] said about having seen him, you've seen [[the Father]]. Anyone who really [[recognized]] what he meant by that would see that it would be incomprehensible for [[the Father]] to want to put that kind of a punishment on anyone for anything that they did while they were [[mortal]].

Q: They also think what can one [[individual]] do when there's so much . . they limit their own [[ability]], their own [[faith]].

Q: They also think what can one [[individual]] do when there's so much . . they limit their own [[ability]], their own [[faith]].

Q: One of the approaches I used in a [[conversation]] one time I remember I got into one with a [[woman]] who thought that if a [[person]] wasn't [[Christian]] they would go to [[hell]]. As I pointed out to her this included millions, billions of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism Buddhists] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism Hindus], etc., and we got into the [[nature]] of a [[Father]] that would create children that He knew were [[condemned]] forever. She had [[three]] [[children]], so I related everything to how she would [[react]] in this situation. It was interesting, but what it came down to in the end was I said "Why would I [[believe]], why would I want to [[believe]] in a [[God]] that couldn't be as [[merciful]] as I can. I couldn't do this to a [[child]], and why would I want to [[worship]] a God that couldn't be as nice as me. After that she said, "Yeah, okay." For this particular woman, that [[argument]] got her.

Q: One of the approaches I used in a [[conversation]] one time I remember I got into one with a [[woman]] who thought that if a [[person]] wasn't [[Christian]] they would go to [[hell]]. As I pointed out to her this included millions, billions of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism Buddhists] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism Hindus], etc., and we got into the [[nature]] of a [[Father]] that would create children that He knew were [[condemned]] forever. She had [[three]] [[children]], so I related everything to how she would [[react]] in this situation. It was interesting, but what it came down to in the end was I said "Why would I [[believe]], why would I want to [[believe]] in a [[God]] that couldn't be as [[merciful]] as I can. I couldn't do this to a [[child]], and why would I want to [[worship]] a God that couldn't be as nice as me. After that she said, "Yeah, okay." For this particular woman, that [[argument]] got her.

Q: I have another suggestion. Perhaps this person, you could find out if they're [[creative]], an artist or something, and if they've created works, whether it's necessarily [[art]] or something [[practical]], but do they destroy them out of [[vengeance]] because they do something that's not quite right?

Q: I have another suggestion. Perhaps this person, you could find out if they're [[creative]], an artist or something, and if they've created works, whether it's necessarily [[art]] or something [[practical]], but do they destroy them out of [[vengeance]] because they do something that's not quite right?

Q: It's sad to [[think]] that as [[children]] we're all-[[trusting]] and all-loving and the adults are teaching the [[children]] to [[fear]] and to [[hate]]. It's just really sad because we begin so [[pure]].

Q: It's sad to [[think]] that as [[children]] we're all-[[trusting]] and all-loving and the adults are teaching the [[children]] to [[fear]] and to [[hate]]. It's just really sad because we begin so [[pure]].

Q: I have a comment. When I went to a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_school Catholic high school], when I was in [[religion]] class (I've gone through this for 6 or 7 years now) and the very first classes I was in we would get into the [[discussions]] about "If we [[doubt]], are we going to go to [[hell]]?". That was 6 years ago. And now, just a few weeks ago we asked how can [[God]] do this? I see it changing. I asked "Who told you that this can happen to you?" and most of them but not all of them said their [[parents]] told them that this was going to happen; and when they finally broke away and started making their own [[choices]], they came to their own [[conclusions]] that they had no [[concept]] that [[God]] would want to do this to them.

Q: I have a comment. When I went to a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_school Catholic high school], when I was in [[religion]] class (I've gone through this for 6 or 7 years now) and the very first classes I was in we would get into the [[discussions]] about "If we [[doubt]], are we going to go to [[hell]]?". That was 6 years ago. And now, just a few weeks ago we asked how can [[God]] do this? I see it changing. I asked "Who told you that this can happen to you?" and most of them but not all of them said their [[parents]] told them that this was going to happen; and when they finally broke away and started making their own [[choices]], they came to their own [[conclusions]] that they had no [[concept]] that [[God]] would want to do this to them.

A: You raise a good [[point]]. For once you take [[responsibility]] for your [[relationship]] with [[the Father]], you will soon [[discern]] that there is no [[anger]] or [[wrath]], as you would be made to [[believe]] by those who are taking the [[responsibility]] for you. There are no [[words]] to [[express]] our [[feeling]] for what happens to the [[children]] on [[your planet]] in these regards, for you are right in what you say, that they are very [[beautiful]], they are very open, they look to you as [[the Father]]. They do not yet [[understand]] the [[difference]]. And yet so many times, this [[trust]] is taken advantage of; and by doing so, the child is deeply [[hurt]]. It takes a very [[strong]]-willed [[individual]] to overcome this [[hurt]] and to [[recognize]] the [[difference]] between the [[earthly]] parent and the [[heavenly]] [[parent]].

A: You raise a good [[point]]. For once you take [[responsibility]] for your [[relationship]] with [[the Father]], you will soon [[discern]] that there is no [[anger]] or [[wrath]], as you would be made to [[believe]] by those who are taking the [[responsibility]] for you. There are no [[words]] to [[express]] our [[feeling]] for what happens to the [[children]] on [[your planet]] in these regards, for you are right in what you say, that they are very [[beautiful]], they are very open, they look to you as [[the Father]]. They do not yet [[understand]] the [[difference]]. And yet so many times, this [[trust]] is taken advantage of; and by doing so, the child is deeply [[hurt]]. It takes a very [[strong]]-willed [[individual]] to overcome this [[hurt]] and to [[recognize]] the [[difference]] between the [[earthly]] parent and the [[heavenly]] [[parent]].

Q: If their [[father]] is beating them and punishing them and treating them terribly, and then they call [[God]] their Father, that's their [[image]] of their [[father]], their [[parental]] [[guidance]]. That's what children see, so how else could they [[compare]] it but to have a [[wrathful]] [[Father]]?

Q: If their [[father]] is beating them and punishing them and treating them terribly, and then they call [[God]] their Father, that's their [[image]] of their [[father]], their [[parental]] [[guidance]]. That's what children see, so how else could they [[compare]] it but to have a [[wrathful]] [[Father]]?

A: I would suggest to you that the [[origins]] of [[eternal]] [[suffering]] and of a wrathful [[father]] were more of a [[human]] [[nature]] that was very [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_fulfilling_prophecy self- fulfilling].

A: I would suggest to you that the [[origins]] of [[eternal]] [[suffering]] and of a wrathful [[father]] were more of a [[human]] [[nature]] that was very [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_fulfilling_prophecy self- fulfilling].

Q: In the [[Bible]], in the [[Old Testament]], [[God]] is very [[vengeful]], so people who read the [[Bible]] and believe it, can believe this is the way He really is.

Q: In the [[Bible]], in the [[Old Testament]], [[God]] is very [[vengeful]], so people who read the [[Bible]] and believe it, can believe this is the way He really is.

Q:Yes, it is.

Q:Yes, it is.

Q: There's a lot of [[churches]] and -[[isms]] and -ologies that teach [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_brimstone fire and brimstone] and [[fear]] of the Lord every day.

Q: There's a lot of [[churches]] and -[[isms]] and -ologies that teach [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_and_brimstone fire and brimstone] and [[fear]] of the Lord every day.

Q: That was not the [[conception]] of [[God]] on your [[planet]], was it Welmek?

Q: That was not the [[conception]] of [[God]] on your [[planet]], was it Welmek?

Q: Either by their own hand, or by asking someone else to do it for them.

Q: Either by their own hand, or by asking someone else to do it for them.

A: I [[wish]] to [[clarify]] so that I [[understand]] correctly. Do you mean if one is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminally ill], do I [[encourage]] the termination of life? Or do you mean does one take their own life because they are unable to face the [[challenges]] of [[material]] living?

A: I [[wish]] to [[clarify]] so that I [[understand]] correctly. Do you mean if one is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminally ill], do I [[encourage]] the termination of life? Or do you mean does one take their own life because they are unable to face the [[challenges]] of [[material]] living?

Q: Why don't you handle each issue separately, because I [[think]] they are separate issues.

Q: Why don't you handle each issue separately, because I [[think]] they are separate issues.

A: I will comment on taking your life because you are not able to [[face]] [[material]] [[existence]]. I [[understand]] why many people would want to do this at times. However, it is important to [[realize]] that there is an [[opportunity]] here that you will never have again. There is an opportunity for [[spiritual growth]] beyond what you will ever [[experience]]; yet, once again, you do not [[understand]] these things and therefore it makes it [[difficult]] to [[appreciate]] them. I do not, under any circumstances, [[encourage]] the taking of one's life because they are finding it [[difficult]] to deal with [[material]] [[existence]]. In regards to termination of life due to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminal illness], I deem it advisable not to [[share]] with you my [[opinions]].

A: I will comment on taking your life because you are not able to [[face]] [[material]] [[existence]]. I [[understand]] why many people would want to do this at times. However, it is important to [[realize]] that there is an [[opportunity]] here that you will never have again. There is an opportunity for [[spiritual growth]] beyond what you will ever [[experience]]; yet, once again, you do not [[understand]] these things and therefore it makes it [[difficult]] to [[appreciate]] them. I do not, under any circumstances, [[encourage]] the taking of one's life because they are finding it [[difficult]] to deal with [[material]] [[existence]]. In regards to termination of life due to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminal illness], I deem it advisable not to [[share]] with you my [[opinions]].

Q: I think the [[question]], Welmek, concerns..they were looking for [[clarification]] that even if some person were troubled and did take their own life, would they not [[survive]]? They're looking for [[clarification]] that they would [[survive]].

Q: I think the [[question]], Welmek, concerns..they were looking for [[clarification]] that even if some person were troubled and did take their own life, would they not [[survive]]? They're looking for [[clarification]] that they would [[survive]].

A: I'll do my best. (laughter)

A: I'll do my best. (laughter)

Q: Welmek, I've got a question that relates back to Scott's question about [[suicide]]. If a person is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminally ill] and [[chooses]] to refuse all medical aid to keep them alive or surgery or like that so that they [[choose]] to die without all of the trappings of our [[medical]] world, is that considered [[suicide]]?

Q: Welmek, I've got a question that relates back to Scott's question about [[suicide]]. If a person is [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminally ill] and [[chooses]] to refuse all medical aid to keep them alive or surgery or like that so that they [[choose]] to die without all of the trappings of our [[medical]] world, is that considered [[suicide]]?

A: I suppose it depends upon your [[definition]]. How is it [[suicide]] if you consciously [[realize]] that your [[material]] body will no longer [[function]]?

A: I suppose it depends upon your [[definition]]. How is it [[suicide]] if you consciously [[realize]] that your [[material]] body will no longer [[function]]?

Q: I'm talking about a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminally ill] person who is being kept alive either by [[mechanical]] means or being kept alive by extensive and [[painful]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgery surgery].

Q: I'm talking about a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_illness terminally ill] person who is being kept alive either by [[mechanical]] means or being kept alive by extensive and [[painful]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgery surgery].

A: And that [[individual]] decides not to continue to be "hooked up"?

A: And that [[individual]] decides not to continue to be "hooked up"?