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===Dialogue===
===Dialogue===
Daniel: "Questions are now in order."
Daniel: "Questions are now in order."
===='''''[[Law]]'''''====
C1: "Daniel, Tomas, I am delighted to be here and in your [[presence]] to hear your [[words]]. I do have a question regarding something that we were [[reading]] in our [http://urantiabook.org/archive/studyaid/study_group_tips.htm study group] where it mentioned the [[laws]] of [[spiritual growth]]. I am [[wondering]] if there is such a thing as actual laws. Could you comment or give me any further understanding of that?
C1: "Daniel, Tomas, I am delighted to be here and in your presence to hear your words. I do have a question regarding something that we were reading in our study group where it mentioned the laws of spiritual growth. I am wondering if there is such a thing as actual laws. Could you comment or give me any further understanding of that?
Thank you."
Tomas: "Whereas there is the [[letter]] of the [[law]] and the [[spirit]] of the law, there are laws of [[the universe]]. These are set down and are [[manifested]] through [[trial and error]]. Yes, there are material laws, spiritual laws, yet there is no fine nor punishment for breaking such law. Rather as you are children of the [[Most Highs]] you are afforded the [[opportunity]] to learn through your own [[experience]] and identify those laws which have become part of your [[morontial]] [[realization]] of your [[freedoms]] and [[limitations]]. I do not know if this has addressed your [[question]]."
C1: "It has given me a greater [[understanding]] but I was trying to look through the concordance, trying to find what these laws were, to see if I was actually living in [[accordance]] with these laws."
DANIEL: As you grow in your [[physical]] life on this [[plane]], as you [[experience]] life, and as you grow from [[infancy]] through [[adulthood]] you have found that there are certain laws that you have [[discovered]] on your own. For instance you have learned that you do not [[touch]] a hot stove without being burnt. In other words [[consequences]] have helped you to learn laws of [[social]] [[discourse]], how to relate to other [[individuals]]. You have learned that [[manner]] and [[courtesy]] take and [[receive]] higher [[response]] and are more successful than is [[profanity]], than is total disregard for another's [[feelings]] or lack of [[tact]]. This you have learned.
And so, you see, the [[soul]] is learning those [[universal]] [[laws]] as you [[progress]]. As you experience each step of the way you learn and know then what is the highest [[course]] to take. You see, the highest course, that [[righteous]] [[path]] is the one that bring forth more [[growth]]. That becomes, then, the [[law]]. That is what you [[adhere]] to. That is what you will follow for that is what calls and beckons the [[soul]] back to [[the Source]]. It is not within our realm to give a list of dos and or don'ts. You know instinctively, you know [[intuitively]] and [[feelingly]], and you also know [[intellectually]]. When a law has been broken it [[reverberates]] through your whole [[being]], [[body]], [[mind]] and [[spirit]]. You know also the [[opposite]], when a law has been followed, for [[joy]], [[peace]], [[security]], and [[love]] are part of your feeling, part of your [[domain]] at any given point. Does this help?
Clarissa: Very much. Thank you very much.
Paula: Daniel, I would like to follow up on a little bit of [[conversation]] about that. Would it be because the [[spirit]] realm has that kind of [[freedom]]? I am mindful of the notion of we don't know where it comes -- anyway the freedom and [[creativity]] that as we walk in ways that keep us at one with our [[God]] and all of those things that make us whole as selves, that those spiritual laws are tailor made for ourselves. Certainly they are [[universal]] to each of us but they are also uniquely fashioned for us. And I heard you say actuating. And as we find those spiritual laws for our own [[being]] and actuate them, we become a larger part of [[the whole]] body so that they [[eventually]] will transform and bring about this [[correcting time]] that we are in.
DANIEL: Indeed, each [[personality]] is unique. Each [[pathway]] back to [[Paradise]] Isle is unique. Indeed is there a [[universal]] [[dialogue]], if you will, but each measure for an [[individual]] of knowing that which is real is unique.
Paula: Then would one of the [[differences]] between [[material]] law and [[spiritual]] law be the [[fact]] that the material law can be codified, but, again, because of this [[freedom]] that is given us and also the [[quality]] of [[spirit]], that it really cannot be codified. We know, but it is not codified?
DANIEL: To a greater degree, yes, however, there are certain spiritual [[attributes]], if you will, or knowings, [[understanding]] that you [[intuitively]] have knowledge of. Indeed, [[abstraction]] is very much a part of what you speak of. Yet there are instances when the situation is very [[clear]], is very concrete. And yet it is very much immersed with spiritual [[reality]].
TOMAS: Might I add, too, when we speak of [[law]] and man's law verses [[God]]'s law, there is that [[opportunity]], [[challenge]] to opt on over the other. In certain circumstances it is not pleasing to the [[soul]] to break God's law to accommodate man's law. And yet, oft times in your [[society]] that is the [[wiser]] [[decision]].
===='''''[[Truth]]'''''====
Paula: Thank you Tomas. I [[wonder]] if that -- I was [[thinking]] as you were [[speaking]] and even before -- the [[difference]] maybe between [[law]] and [[truth]]. I'm sensing -- I am not able to [[articulate]] -- I'm sensing that there is that difference which very much to me resounds in what you said in terms of the [[wisdom]] of sometimes needing to go with the material law against the spiritual law. Is there that [[relationship]] between [[truth]] and [[law]] and the [[difference]] between those two might be those times?
DANIEL: What we are working into is philosophical [[debate]] and [[wording]]. However, let us backtrack to previous lessons regarding the term, [[truth]]. Truth is the highest [[knowledge]]/[[information]]/[[wisdom]] that is understood by an individual at any given [[moment]]. In this regard, then, while there is the one overall [[truth]], there is lesser and lesser degrees of that truth that are understood by [[individuals]] on the various levels that they are on. So in that sense you would say that truth is [[relative]] to an individual at a given moment, yet there is this overall truth. This overall truth would be also the [[law]] of the [[universe]]. For that is what the universe is, but the truth as it is understood. Rather than to quibble or to put it in the [[context]] that we have been speaking about, it would be easier to give an example.
Individual [[cultures]] have certain ideas and certain [[moral]] [[ideas]] and [[mores]] that become, in fact, law. This [[law]] is understood by the people as the highest level of [[authority]], that which must be followed. That law in the [[reality]] of God given truth many not be real truth. Do you see?
Paula: Yes, Daniel. And I didn't mean to get us into a quibble or [[semantics]] -- I am just so concerned with [[the whole]] [[social]] arena of legalizing and the word, law; and how that is being contrived to actually limit one's [[self]] [[determination]], and hence their [[spiritual development]] that it was important for me to find a way to differentiate that. And I appreciate what you articulated because it was very helpful. Thank you.
DANIEL: Indeed. My friends, whenever you are in [[doubt]] about that which is the right path for you to follow I know that you can all tell me in unison now what to do.
Group: Seek the [[stillness]] and [[time]] with the [[Indwelling Spirit]], etc., etc.
DANIEL: Very well stated!
===='''''[[Health]]'''''====
PamElla: Daniel and Tomas, I appreciated your lesson and it has [[stimulated]] a number of different [[questions]] for me. I think what I want to ask at this point is how pervasive [[determination]] is in the entire circumstances of our lives. I am [[thinking]] at the moment about physical [[health]]. I know that this is in some ways running down an avenue that I have already had discussion about with you, Daniel, in private a long time ago, but I am thinking that maybe with almost two years that have gone by and the growing that I have done, my [[understanding]] might be different. At that time I was very concerned that I was creating all the circumstances in all my illness and therefore creating a lot of [[guilt]]. And I know that the guilt was not at all [[healthy]] for me and it was [[necessary]] to break that guilt. And it was such a relief for you to tell me that I, indeed, had physical problems and that my [[autoimmune]] system was weak.
But now as I am [[thinking]] again about determination and [[listening]] to some of what Carrie was [[sharing]] before the meeting I am thinking about the role of determination in our [[health]] and where I first went was in [[attitude]], and that being as a [[response]], being kind of down, being tired, being somewhat depressed can be a [[choice]]; that we can respond in a different way. And then I was thinking about the physical aspects of it and I was wondering if therefore a lot of our illness is in [[fact]] -- to what extent are our illnesses in fact our [[choosing]]? I have certainly been beleaguered, I guess is the word I am thinking (and now I am wanting to look that up in the dictionary) by bad health again recently. And I am [[focusing]] on that and what to do about it in the physical realm. I, of course, spend time daily in [[the quiet]]. I am wondering again to what extent I am [[choosing]] to have that in my life?? That was very long and roundabout, but thank you.
DANIEL: This question is one that would need to be dealt with specifically. However, I will choose to give a broader answer that more may benefit.
There are within the human [[body]] a whole myriad of systems working [[together]]. And there are instances in [[nature]] where there is a breakdown in the body which can be termed a hereditary disorder or a congenital defect. And there are these instances where the breakdown is very physical in [[nature]] and therefore one cannot say that the person in this situation is [[desiring]] and determining to have this [[disease]].
However, even the [[person]] in this situation must [[realize]] that there is a [[responsibility]] toward their [[health]] that they must be accountable for in order to [[maintain]] and in order to keep the body [[functioning]] at an optimal level. If, for instance, a person is [[born]] with or develops a [[disease]] and knowingly does that which is detrimental to their health, then most assuredly, they are determining to have ill health. Those who have a health problem but do what is [[necessary]] in all areas of help, that is [[nutrition]], diet, mental [[attitude]] and seeking the assistance of the [[Life Carriers]], then, most assuredly these people are on a right [[path]]. Let me qualify that having to direct [[attention]] to a Life Carrier specifically is not [[necessary]], but rather turning over toward any kind of spiritual [[healing]] is what would be the normal [[vocabulary]] of the realm. And so this person, then, is determining, is willing that their health be improved.
And so one can most [[assuredly]], then, be determining ill health or determining better health. [[Responsibility]] is a key [[factor]], but one must consider that even the most responsible person is part of a planet that is environmentally unstable with many environmental [[pollutants]] and with many [[viruses]] and bacteria that are natural and those that are caused by human neglect, etc. Given this it is important that you work toward maintaining [[health]], utilizing all that is given to you that will help [[manifest]] better health. [[Attitude]], as you mentioned, is a great part and has much to do with a person's [[health]]. Does this help?
PamElla: Yes, Daniel. That did help me very much. It relieved that sudden sense of [[guilt]] that I had created it all again. I don't always do things perfectly, but I have [[decided]] I am working in the right [[direction]]. Thank you.
===='''''[[Free will]]'''''====
Isaac: Hello Daniel and Tomas, this is Isaac. I [[thought]] I [[understood]] your lesson, Daniel, on [[determination]] at one [[point]] to say something along the lines of -- on [[this planet]] we are not as fully [[aware]] of [[free will]] choice as we might be or we will be. And what I thought (if this isn't what you intended, I am not sure) but the [[thought]] that came to me was that much of our [[thinking]] is what I would call [[deterministic]] rather than determined. We think in terms of [[society]] and [[genetics]] and the emphasis on free will, in my judgment, is minimal. It is almost a concept that [[science]] can't explain or deal with. So those were [[thoughts]]. I thought perhaps you were saying to us we actually have more [[ability]] to create our [[future]] -- I know the [[Urantia Book]] teaches this, and you are in [[agreement]] with that -- that we can do a lot more to create our future and affect ourselves and our world than perhaps we give ourselves credit for. Is that in [[agreement]] with what you were [[intending]], if not explicitly what you said?
DANIEL: Exactly! The point of my lesson was, in [[fact]], to help you realize that when you say -- I am [[determined]] to do something.., that you recall what the word 'determine' really means. It is a free will [[choice]]! If you are determined to know the [[First Source and Center]], if you are determined to follow the First Source and Center then you are making that [[choice]]. That choice will, indeed, open up new worlds to you! If you were determined to follow some [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism satanic cult] then you would be determining a [[life]] that would be far different from that of following the [[First Source and Center]].
These [[choices]] are indeed choices that you are making that is determining your mindset. When you seek the company of those who put forth high [[ideals]] then you self perpetuate those ideals. They are always in the forefront of your [[mind]]. If you seek the company of those who put forth [[hate]] and the like, then you [[perpetuate]] that. You are determining, then, by your [[actions]] you [[course]] of life. You are making those will choices. indeed!
Isaac: Thank you.
Leetah: Daniel and Tomas I did want to introduce Angie Martin who has been a [[Urantia Book]] reader by herself in [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernal,_Utah Vernal, Utah]. She has moved to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocatello,_Utah Pocatello] and she is here tonight with us."
TOMAS: We are pleased.
DANIEL: Indeed, Angie, this group [[welcomes]] you with open arms. Be not [[afraid]]. Allow God's will and [[love]] to surround you this evening with the love that is emitting from those in this room that are visible to you, and the many that are out of your [[vision]] range. We send you love from [[the universes]].
Leetah : I really [[appreciated]] your continuation of the [[question]] that Carrie asked. For me the [[mores]], the [[laws]], of the organize [[church]] had produced a tremendous amount of false [[guilt]], that even today I really have to deal with. So it is hard for me to [[separate]] those laws from the laws you say we know [[intuitively]]. When we break God's cosmic spiritual law there is a [[separation]]. But it is so hard for me to separate the broken law that separates me from God and the broken laws that separate me from people or [[organizations]] or something. I am not sure I am making this [[clear]]. I am still not sure because of my [[feelings]] that it is spiritual laws I have broken or [[moral]] laws I have broken or neither. Maybe I haven't done anything wrong! But I feel [[guilt]]! I am not sure I always know, yet I really [[appreciated]] you with your comments. I don't know if there is anything more to say or not. I appreciate the [[knowledge]] that you give us and I try very hard (I'm [[thinking]] in terms of the first graders) to help them to realize that they are [[responsible]], they are determining, they make their choices in the classroom. And I do [[appreciate]] very much what you said.
DANIEL: My friend, whenever one is very, very uncomfortable with themselves in any given situation there is [[cause]] to consider [[motive]], [[attitude]], and the situation. Whether or not the situation is [[erroneous]] or only a part of your erroneous [[thinking]] at the time is immaterial. What is important is the fact that you are [[feeling]] uncomfortable. When this is happening you must [[decide]] if the reason you are uncomfortable is something that you can [[change]] within your own [[being]] or within any given situation that can bring forth a greater and higher [[purpose]]. When this is the case you will undoubtedly feel better. What is important at these times is to remember that the [[First Source and Center]] has already [[forgiven]]. It is up to you to forgive in order for forgiveness to be complete. Remember to love yourself even in your [[weaknesses]]. Make better and more determined [[commitment]] to strive to know [[the will of the Father]], that you can live a life that bespeaks how and what you [[think]] and [[feel]].
With that, my [[friends]], Tomas and I will take our leave. Be ye [[determined]] [[individuals]]. Be ye determined to take the time to know [[the Father]], that through the time spent with the [[Indwelling Spirit]] you can be the determined [[individual]] that follow the will of the Father/Mother Spirit of us all.
===Closing===
Go this week in the [[love]] that [[surrounds]] you, in [[peace]] that can fill you when your sights are [[determined]] in His will. Good evening.
TOMAS: [[Farewell]].
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