Difference between revisions of "1999-12-21-What Is Religious?"
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==Session== | ==Session== | ||
===Dialogue=== | ===Dialogue=== | ||
| − | THOROAH: That brings up two questions. Maybe it's more of a comment with a question mark. I think that you have been teaching -- for the past eight months that I've been here with you -- you've been teaching us the importance of sociability, you've been teaching us the importance of simplicity, directness, sincerity in conversation, being real in our conversations, and I can see now that that is what you were talking about in this debate form, and your analogy of a bunch of us guys, we know each other, sitting around and totally loving and respecting each other and saying, "Have you ever thought about it like this?" It's a very nice, sincere sharing, so you have to come from a very sincere place, where you just want to share this somebody. | + | THOROAH: That brings up two [[questions]]. Maybe it's more of a comment with a [[question]] mark. I think that you have been teaching -- for the past eight months that I've been here with you -- you've been teaching us the importance of [[sociability]], you've been teaching us the importance of [[simplicity]], directness, [[sincerity]] in [[conversation]], being real in our conversations, and I can see now that that is what you were talking about in this [[debate]] form, and your [[analogy]] of a bunch of us guys, we know each other, sitting around and totally loving and [[respecting]] each other and saying, "Have you ever thought about it like this?" It's a very nice, sincere [[sharing]], so you have to come from a very sincere place, where you just want to share this somebody. |
| − | TOMAS: This is what makes it "religious". It is high ideal for you. It is sincere because you believe it. It is worthy of your worship. | + | TOMAS: This is what makes it "[[religious]]". It is high [[ideal]] for you. It is sincere because you [[believe]] it. It is worthy of your [[worship]]. |
| − | THOROAH: It's different in a discussion, too, because with this | + | THOROAH: It's different in a [[discussion]], too, because with this [[Urmia]]n forum, you don't have an [[opportunity]] in a discussion where somebody says something and it triggers a whole bunch of [[thoughts]] in your [[mind]] and all of a sudden you're already [[preparing]] what it is that you want to say instead of [[listening]] to what was said, and so in the Urmian fashion, you basically had to [[listen]] because the [[chance]] to [[interject]] wasn't there and so that made for a chance for [[communications]] to be a lot better. |
| − | TOMAS: It is a grief that you cannot realize that when this happens in your discourses with people, it is because you are being stimulated. You may be being stimulated in any direction, but your are reacting to a stimuli. If you do not react to the stimuli, but respond to the entire presentation, allowing yourself to see beyond the obvious to what is being said through the Spirit, then your perspective is different and your response will be deeper, more connected to your spiritual reality rather than, as they say, off the top of your head or by the seat of your pants. | + | TOMAS: It is a [[grief]] that you cannot realize that when this happens in your [[discourses]] with people, it is because you are being [[stimulated]]. You may be being stimulated in any direction, but your are reacting to a stimuli. If you do not react to the stimuli, but respond to the entire presentation, allowing yourself to see beyond the obvious to what is being said through the [[Spirit]], then your [[perspective]] is different and your response will be deeper, more connected to your spiritual [[reality]] rather than, as they say, off the top of your head or by the seat of your pants. |
| − | And in your society today you are all by and large in such a hurry to be glib and in such defense of your cherished opinions, you are pointedly obnoxious in your attempts to socialize your beliefs therefore your value. | + | And in your [[society]] today you are all by and large in such a hurry to be glib and in such [[defense]] of your cherished [[opinions]], you are pointedly obnoxious in your attempts to [[socialize]] your [[beliefs]] therefore your [[value]]. |
| − | THOROAH: Yeah, and we're embarrassed by it. | + | THOROAH: Yeah, and we're [[embarrassed]] by it. |
| − | TOMAS: You are not even aware of it, in the main. And yet, it is to your credit that when you do become aware of it, you make a correction in total. It is wonderful to see you all grow so well in the spirit. You are so dear to us. | + | TOMAS: You are not even [[aware]] of it, in the main. And yet, it is to your credit that when you do become aware of it, you make a [[correction]] in total. It is wonderful to see you all [[grow]] so well in the spirit. You are so dear to us. |
| − | THOROAH: Thank you. You've become very dear to me. I know that you've been dear to Gerdean for a long time, but I feel - all of you - I could almost see all of you sitting in the amphitheater as we started this meeting so I sense the presence of everyone, but it's just become so real and special. There's a fire burning in me about it and I want to do the right thing with this because I do want to share it. It is really wonderful. | + | THOROAH: Thank you. You've become very dear to me. I know that you've been dear to Gerdean for a long time, but I feel - all of you - I could almost see all of you sitting in the [[amphitheater]] as we started this meeting so I sense the [[presence]] of everyone, but it's just become so real and special. There's a fire burning in me about it and I want to do the right thing with this because I do want to [[share]] it. It is really wonderful. |
| − | TOMAS: Indeed, it is wonderful to be able to commune with that which is value and that which has value to you. That is what you wish to share with others and it is particularly wonderful when it is | + | TOMAS: Indeed, it is wonderful to be able to [[commune]] with that which is [[value]] and that which has value to you. That is what you wish to [[share]] with others and it is particularly wonderful when it is Y[[our Father]]'s and He is the [[ultimate]] Donor and Giver, and thus it is He who is [[responsible]] for all [[good]]. |
| − | THOROAH: On the manner in which Jesus, Michael, spoke - spoke to one person when speaking to a group. I got a real excited feeling about that because it was one of the things I learned in my broadcasting. I had a good mentor. Thank you all who arranged that. And one of the first things he taught me was that when you are talking on the radio you are talking to one person. And so that's part of my consciousness already. When I'm trying to communicate I do try to write to one person because I know the effect of that. So I feel like I have a tool to work with already. | + | THOROAH: On the [[manner]] in which [[Jesus]], [[Michael]], spoke - spoke to one person when speaking to a group. I got a real excited [[feeling]] about that because it was one of the things I learned in my broadcasting. I had a good [[mentor]]. Thank you all who arranged that. And one of the first things he taught me was that when you are talking on the radio you are talking to one person. And so that's part of my [[consciousness]] already. When I'm trying to communicate I do try to [[write]] to one person because I know the [[effect]] of that. So I feel like I have a tool to [[work]] with already. |
| − | And I know you do that, Tomas. I hear you, when we're in meetings, say there's six or seven of us around and you're talking, and I feel like you are talking to me. And after the meeting I find out that everybody there felt like you were talking to them! And so that ability is one you have a real grasp of. | + | And I know you do that, Tomas. I hear you, when we're in [[meetings]], say there's six or seven of us around and you're talking, and I feel like you are talking to me. And after the meeting I find out that everybody there felt like you were talking to them! And so that [[ability]] is one you have a real grasp of. |
| − | TOMAS: This is an expression of truth. Truth is universal. If I am speaking to your Thought Adjuster (as we say), if I am speaking to the God part of you, your divine nature, I am saying the same things and being understood in the same way as if I were addressing any of the other Thought Adjusters of any of the other individuals in the room. | + | TOMAS: This is an [[expression]] of [[truth]]. Truth is [[universal]]. If I am speaking to your [[Thought Adjuster]] (as we say), if I am speaking to the God part of you, your [[divine]] nature, I am saying the same things and being [[understood]] in the same way as if I were addressing any of the other Thought Adjusters of any of the other [[individuals]] in the room. |
| − | THOROAH: The truth doesn't specialize. | + | THOROAH: The [[truth]] doesn't specialize. |
| − | TOMAS: It doesn't change from one person to the other. God is no respecter of persons. It is true, too, however, that it is necessary for the teacher to respect the personality of man. | + | TOMAS: It doesn't [[change]] from one person to the other. God is no respecter of persons. It is true, too, however, that it is [[necessary]] for the teacher to respect the [[personality]] of man. |
| − | THOROAH: It also helps if the teacher tells the truth to start with. | + | THOROAH: It also helps if the teacher tells the [[truth]] to start with. |
| − | TOMAS: There will be false prophets among you, and I do hope we have all reiterated to you sufficiently that you believe this in your heart and in your mind, that should anything fall upon your ears which is inimical to the truth as you understand it, that you not release it into yourself without examination. | + | TOMAS: There will be [[false]] [[prophets]] among you, and I do [[hope]] we have all reiterated to you sufficiently that you believe this in your [[heart]] and in your [[mind]], that should anything fall upon your ears which is inimical to the truth as you [[understand]] it, that you not release it into yourself without [[examination]]. |
| − | I see you two have bridged the gap quite well. It is wonderful to be able to touch people through words and expressions of an artistic nature, but it is also a value when you have such physical proximity which allows you to feel each other and learn to respond to each other in these deeper ways which result from intelligent, mature, spiritual discussions as compared to clever or patterned responses to stimuli. | + | I see you two have bridged the gap quite well. It is wonderful to be able to [[touch]] people through [[words]] and [[expressions]] of an artistic nature, but it is also a [[value]] when you have such physical proximity which allows you to feel each other and learn to respond to each other in these deeper ways which result from intelligent, [[mature]], spiritual discussions as [[compared]] to clever or patterned responses to stimuli. |
| − | In due time, you will meet all your Urantia fellow sojourners - all the ones who have become meaningful to you will be advancing with you throughout eternity. The arts of scientific and spiritual and other kinds of attainments will be your blessing for eternity, and so have patience with yourselves when you find yourselves coming up with clever retorts and questionable humor, because you are still in the process of weaning yourselves from that which you have known all your life. While you learn to love yourself, you will want to be better to and for yourself for you know that you are a reflection, now, of that Who has created you. | + | In due [[time]], you will meet all your [[Urantia]] fellow sojourners - all the ones who have become meaningful to you will be advancing with you throughout [[eternity]]. [[The arts]] of [[scientific]] and [[spiritual]] and other kinds of [[attainments]] will be your [[blessing]] for eternity, and so have [[patience]] with yourselves when you find yourselves coming up with clever retorts and questionable [[humor]], because you are still in the [[process]] of [[weaning]] yourselves from that which you have known all your life. While you learn to [[love]] yourself, you will want to be better to and for yourself for you know that you are a [[reflection]], now, of that Who has created you. |
===Closing=== | ===Closing=== | ||
| − | We thank you for the opportunity to spend time with you this evening and to once again find value in this operation of teaching you to be fishers of men. Farewell. | + | We thank you for the [[opportunity]] to spend time with you this evening and to once again find [[value]] in this operation of teaching you to be fishers of men. Farewell. |
THOROAH: Thank you and farewell. | THOROAH: Thank you and farewell. | ||
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[[Category: Tomas]] | [[Category: Tomas]] | ||
[[Category: Gerdean]] | [[Category: Gerdean]] | ||
| − | [[Category: | + | [[Category: 1999]] |
| − | |||
| − | |||
Latest revision as of 21:28, 11 April 2013
Heading
Topic: What is Religious?
Group: Butler TeaM
Facilitators
Teacher: Tomas
TR: Gerdean
Session
Dialogue
THOROAH: That brings up two questions. Maybe it's more of a comment with a question mark. I think that you have been teaching -- for the past eight months that I've been here with you -- you've been teaching us the importance of sociability, you've been teaching us the importance of simplicity, directness, sincerity in conversation, being real in our conversations, and I can see now that that is what you were talking about in this debate form, and your analogy of a bunch of us guys, we know each other, sitting around and totally loving and respecting each other and saying, "Have you ever thought about it like this?" It's a very nice, sincere sharing, so you have to come from a very sincere place, where you just want to share this somebody.
TOMAS: This is what makes it "religious". It is high ideal for you. It is sincere because you believe it. It is worthy of your worship.
THOROAH: It's different in a discussion, too, because with this Urmian forum, you don't have an opportunity in a discussion where somebody says something and it triggers a whole bunch of thoughts in your mind and all of a sudden you're already preparing what it is that you want to say instead of listening to what was said, and so in the Urmian fashion, you basically had to listen because the chance to interject wasn't there and so that made for a chance for communications to be a lot better.
TOMAS: It is a grief that you cannot realize that when this happens in your discourses with people, it is because you are being stimulated. You may be being stimulated in any direction, but your are reacting to a stimuli. If you do not react to the stimuli, but respond to the entire presentation, allowing yourself to see beyond the obvious to what is being said through the Spirit, then your perspective is different and your response will be deeper, more connected to your spiritual reality rather than, as they say, off the top of your head or by the seat of your pants.
And in your society today you are all by and large in such a hurry to be glib and in such defense of your cherished opinions, you are pointedly obnoxious in your attempts to socialize your beliefs therefore your value.
THOROAH: Yeah, and we're embarrassed by it.
TOMAS: You are not even aware of it, in the main. And yet, it is to your credit that when you do become aware of it, you make a correction in total. It is wonderful to see you all grow so well in the spirit. You are so dear to us.
THOROAH: Thank you. You've become very dear to me. I know that you've been dear to Gerdean for a long time, but I feel - all of you - I could almost see all of you sitting in the amphitheater as we started this meeting so I sense the presence of everyone, but it's just become so real and special. There's a fire burning in me about it and I want to do the right thing with this because I do want to share it. It is really wonderful.
TOMAS: Indeed, it is wonderful to be able to commune with that which is value and that which has value to you. That is what you wish to share with others and it is particularly wonderful when it is Your Father's and He is the ultimate Donor and Giver, and thus it is He who is responsible for all good.
THOROAH: On the manner in which Jesus, Michael, spoke - spoke to one person when speaking to a group. I got a real excited feeling about that because it was one of the things I learned in my broadcasting. I had a good mentor. Thank you all who arranged that. And one of the first things he taught me was that when you are talking on the radio you are talking to one person. And so that's part of my consciousness already. When I'm trying to communicate I do try to write to one person because I know the effect of that. So I feel like I have a tool to work with already.
And I know you do that, Tomas. I hear you, when we're in meetings, say there's six or seven of us around and you're talking, and I feel like you are talking to me. And after the meeting I find out that everybody there felt like you were talking to them! And so that ability is one you have a real grasp of.
TOMAS: This is an expression of truth. Truth is universal. If I am speaking to your Thought Adjuster (as we say), if I am speaking to the God part of you, your divine nature, I am saying the same things and being understood in the same way as if I were addressing any of the other Thought Adjusters of any of the other individuals in the room.
THOROAH: The truth doesn't specialize.
TOMAS: It doesn't change from one person to the other. God is no respecter of persons. It is true, too, however, that it is necessary for the teacher to respect the personality of man.
THOROAH: It also helps if the teacher tells the truth to start with.
TOMAS: There will be false prophets among you, and I do hope we have all reiterated to you sufficiently that you believe this in your heart and in your mind, that should anything fall upon your ears which is inimical to the truth as you understand it, that you not release it into yourself without examination.
I see you two have bridged the gap quite well. It is wonderful to be able to touch people through words and expressions of an artistic nature, but it is also a value when you have such physical proximity which allows you to feel each other and learn to respond to each other in these deeper ways which result from intelligent, mature, spiritual discussions as compared to clever or patterned responses to stimuli.
In due time, you will meet all your Urantia fellow sojourners - all the ones who have become meaningful to you will be advancing with you throughout eternity. The arts of scientific and spiritual and other kinds of attainments will be your blessing for eternity, and so have patience with yourselves when you find yourselves coming up with clever retorts and questionable humor, because you are still in the process of weaning yourselves from that which you have known all your life. While you learn to love yourself, you will want to be better to and for yourself for you know that you are a reflection, now, of that Who has created you.
Closing
We thank you for the opportunity to spend time with you this evening and to once again find value in this operation of teaching you to be fishers of men. Farewell.
THOROAH: Thank you and farewell.
