View source for Talk:1992-10-02-Tolerance and More

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This was not found in Gerdean's revised collection which begins with Volume 2, part 1 where the first lesson is: 1993-11-28-Special Meeting: Advent, Daniel Invites Tomas to Co-Teach. I will write her to see if she has any thoughts of revision for this record. --rdavis 03:00, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

== Correspondence ==

Hello Gerdean-

I have begun to encounter your transmitted lessons now and as mentioned earlier, I will be replacing them with those you provided in Word format, but the following lessons precede the dates of the edited collection you sent. Will you check to see if you have these lessons in the revised form, and if so, would you send them to me?

Gratefully,

Rob

enc: list of lessons not in your revised collection.

*[[1992-10-02-Tolerance & More]]
*[[1993-06-29-Seeds Must Be Watered On Occasion]]
*[[1993-09-05-Tolerance]]
*[[1993-09-06-Love of Self]]
*[[1993-09-12-Other Human Worlds]]

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Gerdean wrote (full text below *key points):

*The first one,1992-10-02 is not mine.  I did not arrive in Pittsburgh until November 1996.  I didn't even start to T/R until February of 1993.  This was another T/R, one of my predecessors with the Pittsburgh group. 

*The second one, 1993-06-29 is not mine.  It is very likely Aaron transmitting from Spokane, but this early it was probably Bob Devine or one of the folks from up there.  We did not sojourn in the Pacific Inland Northwest until 2000-2001. 

*The third one, 1993-09-05 on Tolerance reads like it might be my work, but it is not one I submitted for publication because it is truncated.  It was snipped off without proper closure.  It might be one Ron took from tmtranscripts and modified to suit, but the date is wrong.  Any T/R'ing I did in 1993 was done outside a group setting.  That was my year of private ministry with Tomas, where he worked with me to help me get ready for public ministry, and looking at my records, there was no transcript from 1993-09-05.  I suggest you throw this one away.  No doubt the true document is in the completed set I gave you AFTER they were edited for publication, but this one is inadequate and unacceptable.

*The fourth one, 1993-09-06 could be mine but Rio Rancho didn't get started until 2002 and this format is not mine.  I would not have lobbed it off like that.  And it is credited to Ham.  I rarely T/R'd Ham, and certainly not in 1993.  I suggest you throw this one away.  

*The fifth one, 1993-09-12, Other Human Worlds, is not mine.  

*I am not Gerdean Bowen.  I am Gerdean O'Dell.  Only Caesar calls me Karen Bowen.  Everybody else knows I am Gerdean O'Dell.  All my transcripts, like by books, should have my name on it as Gerdean O'Dell. 

On Nov 15, 2011, at 11:05 PM, Gerdean O'Dell wrote:

Mr. Davis:
 
The first one,1992-10-02 is not mine.  I did not arrive in Pittsburgh until November 1996.  I didn't even start to T/R until February of 1993.  This was another T/R, one of my predecessors with the Pittsburgh group. 
 
The second one, 1993-06-29 is not mine.  It is very likely Aaron transmitting from Spokane, but this early it was probably Bob Devine or one of the folks from up there.  We did not sojourn in the Pacific Inland Northwest until 2000-2001. 
 
The third one, 1993-09-05 on Tolerance reads like it might be my work, but it is not one I submitted for publication because it is truncated.  It was snipped off without proper closure.  It might be one Ron took from tmtranscripts and modified to suit, but the date is wrong.  Any T/R'ing I did in 1993 was done outside a group setting.  That was my year of private ministry with Tomas, where he worked with me to help me get ready for public ministry, and looking at my records, there was no transcript from 1993-09-05.  I suggest you throw this one away.  No doubt the true document is in the completed set I gave you AFTER they were edited for publication, but this one is inadequate and unacceptable.
 
The fourth one, 1993-09-06 could be mine but Rio Rancho didn't get started until 2002 and this format is not mine.  I would not have lobbed it off like that.  And it is credited to Ham.  I rarely T/R'd Ham, and certainly not in 1993.  It looks like an other of Ron Besser's hack and slash jobs. Any T/R'ing I did in 1993 was done outside a group setting.  That was my year of private ministry with Tomas, where he worked with me to help me get ready for public ministry, and in reviewing my records, there was no transcript from 1993-09-05.  I suggest you throw this one away.  Any true document is in the completed set I gave you AFTER they were edited for publication, but this one is inadequate and unacceptable.
 
The fifth one, 1993-09-12, Other Human Worlds, is not mine.  Same thing.  See the above.  It is unacceptable.  So is this note:  "Until another tagging solution is found, this lesson will be filed as belonging to the Rio Rancho TeaM even though it was not established until long after the TR, Gerdean Bowen had served in many other areas before 'retiring' to Rio Rancho near the city of Albuquerque, NM. Perhaps when sufficient lessons are found from this period, a separate group identity will be assigned. "
 
I GAVE YOU MY TRANSCRIPTS, ROB DAVIS, A FULL AND COMPLETE EDITED AND FORMATTED SET, but you insist on retaining that stupid incorrect set that was taken from tmtranscripts and put on TMArchives before they were ready for distribution.  Since Mr. Besser refused to take them down, I replaced them, one at bloody time, until they were all reviewed.  It took me YEARS to do that.  And when I had done that, I gave you a complete set, asking you to replace your old set with these new ones but you refused. And you are STILL using that old incorrect set and it seems you want me to edit my collection for your computer program similar to how I had to edit my collection to accommodate Mr. Besser's computer editor. 
 
These are not my transcripts.  They are not acceptable.  And while I am on a roll, I did not retire to New Mexico.  I worked my fingers to the freaking bone for four long years after we got here at that freaking civil law firm before I was finally FORCED to retire because I was rendered disabled.  I have already submitted my transcripts to you in pristine condition. Adding insult to injury, you now are loading me up with miscellany and excusing it with a note.  "Perhaps when sufficient lessons are found from this period, a separate group identity will be assigned."  Well, in the meantime, good sir, those are not mine!
 
And for the umpteenth time, I am not Gerdean Bowen.  I am Gerdean O'Dell.  Only Caesar calls me Karen Bowen.  Everybody else knows I am Gerdean O'Dell.  All my transcripts, like by books, should have my name on it as Gerdean O'Dell. 
 
Please excuse my little spitfire.  I am still quite raw, as you can see, when it comes to this topic of people using my transcripts to make themselves look good, while making me and my teachers and our work look like shit.  And I STILL haven't yet gotten my transcripts on MY site.  Jeez.
 
Gerdean

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Hello Gerdean-

Thank you for clarifying! 

To be sure, lessons transmitted by you will be replaced one by one in course of reviewing the chronologic sequence of the entire corpus of dialogues. It is out of devotion to your stated preference in this regard that I inquired knowing that you have yet to identify volume 1 of your collection whose earliest current folder is entitled Volume 2, Part 1. 

As you recognize the attribution of these to you is,1) in four cases definitely incorrect and 2) in one case perhaps incorrect, I will remove such attribution and forward your recommendations of deletion to the Editorial Advisory Board* whose decision I will honor. Otherwise, please know any correspondence germane to such editorial decisions under review are logged to the pertinent discussion page of the record(s) in question.

Regarding your biographic reference, I notice that you are referred to in the Nordan Symposia by first name only with [https://www.nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gerdean this brief entry] that I would be happy to amend as you wish. If you notice any other places where your name is featured incorrectly, I trust you will let me know.

Gratefully,

Rob--rdavis 00:16, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

*Editorial Advisory Board members

Byron Belitsos
Dave Tenney
Marty Greenhut
Mer Tenney
Rick Voss

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Dear Friends,

It was for the purpose of reconciling different editorial opinions germane to the Nordan Corpora in general and the Teaching Mission Dialogues in particular that I asked you to be part of the Nordan Editorial Advisory Board so that in cases where disagreement existed, you might reconcile such by voting together on recommended actions. 

I copied you on the recent correspondence between Gerdean and myself bearing upon the issue of deleting 5 records, 4 of which she cites that are definitely not hers and one which she says is probably not her work. You may wish to visit the pertinent 'talkpage' to review this correspondence, and bear in mind that any thoughts you might offer could also be added to it.

It is my recommendation that we do not delete these records at least at this time given that Gerdean has conceded that this is at minimum, "not her work". Regardless of what your opinion is on this matter, I will defer to the consensus of the group on this matter knowing it is more important to develop functioning groups of collaboration than any collections of second hand textual references to spirituality, however well stated or from whatever 'source' they may be derived.

Gratefully,

Rob--rdavis 00:55, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

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Gerdean wrote: November 16, 2011 7:10:42 PM CST

Hi Rob. 
 
Thanks for still talking to me after how rude I was yesterday.  As I said, I am still quite raw on this topic and when the scab is picked, it tends to hurt like hell and I still bleed.  Sorry.  I slapped a  bandaid on it.  Time heals all wounds and wounds all heels.  So ....
 
In looking at that roster of Gerdean's transcripts, and observing its style, no matter how much Besser might have chopped it up, it is quite evident to me that the one on Tolerance is not mine.  Mine starts with the December 1993 Special Session. 
 
The references to Volumes and Parts are for my pwn organizational purposes, for my archives for my site.  Don't worry about those. 
 
"Gerdean" is fine.  That's who I am.  I will not need "O'Dell" in Mansonia.  Or "Bowen."  I tried Gerdean Bowen for a while but it didn't work for me.  Angus is Bowen; I'm O'Dell.  Together we are O'Dell-Bowen. 
 
Thanks.

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Hello Gerdean-

My gratitude to you for introducing me to Tomas and the Teacher Corps far eclipse any pain we may share in the course of celebrating this gift given to us during this time of correction! Besides, I do understand your feelings.

I will, as you suggest, regard any records attributed to you that are not in your revised collection as incorrect. When I encounter the records requiring replacement, I will alert you after I have done so to be sure it meets your preference.

Gratefully,

Rob--rdavis 02:40, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

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Dave wrote : November 16, 2011 8:49:52 PM CS

Mer & I are in agreement that the items identified should be deleted per Gerdean's comments.

--Dave Tenney

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On Nov 16, 2011, at 9:00 PM, Dave Tenney wrote:

Mer I wonder is it possible to just delete reference to Gerdean, & retain the posts as of indeterminate origin?--Dave

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Yes, that is what I have done pending further clarification. It is my opinion that as she is not the 'source' according to her own citation, attempts to identify the source should be made. Until then, the records will be tagged as "[https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Unknown Unknown]".--rdavis 03:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

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Rick Voss wrote: Date: 	November 16, 2011 10:14:56 PM CST
my opinion, remove the transcripts as requested and put them in a incomplete file somewhere until further clarification is received.

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Hello Rick-

Thank you for sharing your thought on this issue!

There has been further discussion with Gerdean who is in accord with something akin to what you are suggesting, namely, to remove attribution to her. Instead, I have assigned this attribution to category entitled "unknown" until more information becomes available. No doubt, after I have worked through all the lessons, there will be quite a bit of work to attempt to identify the unknown factor. 

Trust you are well!

Gratefully,

Rob--rdavis 05:20, 17 November 2011 (UTC)