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Talk:2012-11-23-Last Day of Normal (view source)
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== Conflict Notification ==
Readers should be apprised of conflicting assessments of the '''''ABC Summaries''''', occurring specifically in the documents '''''Conversations with Monjoronson''''' numbers [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=2012-11-30-Conversations_with_Monjoronson_65 65], [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=2012-12-04-Conversations_with_Monjoronson_66 66], and [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=2013-01-13-Conversations_with_Monjoronson_67 67].--rdavis 19:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
==Discussion==
'''Ron Besser wrote: Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:43 PM'''
'''Ron Besser wrote: Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:43 PM'''
'''Rob wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:49 PM'''
'''Rob wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:49 PM'''
Speaking of Roland, consider this reply of Abraham to Roland's query about the Bible Code.
Speaking of Roland, consider this reply of Abraham to Roland's query about the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code Bible Code].
In these prophesies there is long held beliefs that to predict the future is to find proof that God exists. In these books it is your choice to take what is valuable, and allow the rest to fall away. I am not against anything you might find interesting or entertaining, no. I would say, please, by all means enjoy, and look for Father's fingerprints where you may. To accept certain concepts as the gospel could perhaps lead you to irrational thinking and actions, but this place, this meeting place is a safe arena in which to throw in the hat of inquiry. Your fellow group members are filled with varied sides. [1]
In these prophesies there is long held beliefs that to predict the future is to find proof that God exists. In these books it is your choice to take what is valuable, and allow the rest to fall away. I am not against anything you might find interesting or entertaining, no. I would say, please, by all means enjoy, and look for Father's fingerprints where you may. To accept certain concepts as the gospel could perhaps lead you to irrational thinking and actions, but this place, this meeting place is a safe arena in which to throw in the hat of inquiry. Your fellow group members are filled with varied sides. ([https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1997-06-30-Spiritual_Strength#Dialogue 1])
'''John Kimble wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:12 PM'''
'''John Kimble wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:12 PM'''
STuTe
STuTe
'''Rob wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:50 PM'''
Hello John,
As for Ron's personal liberty to explore and express "his truth" is concerned, no one here would dissuade him from doing so. However, in as much as he has conflated his personal spiritual experience with The Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission, it only confirms what we know well, that "evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes." ([https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=100:1_Religious_Growth 1]) One must distinguish between personal spiritual freedom and professional representation of a public charity.
Gratefully,
Rob
'''Jim Cleveland wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 5:44 PM'''
Hi Rob, yes and ...
He can't say that you haven't told him so over the years ... again and again and again .... in ever-recurring opaquenesses of clarity. You were right all along.
But is he convinced?
I'm just glad Asia is safe .... for now.
and that a massive quake didn't solve our immigration problem.
jim the jovial
'''Gerdean wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM'''
What you say here, Rob, is truth. It would be a whole different paradigm of reality if Mr. Besser were to send forth his Flurries into the ethers as any T/R might -- with personal libertyto explore and express his truth. But he virtually "owns" the Teaching Mission, by virtue of the fact that he seized the transcripts to create a foundation upon which the Monjoronson Mission could be built and so he has set himself up as our infallible leader. No organization worth its salt would tolerate such a flagrant conflict of interest.
"One must distinguish between personal spiritual freedom and professional representation of a public charity."
The fact that our treasures are more "spiritual" than "material" in no way diminishes the fact that Ron Besser, as self-proclaimed and self-installed CEO, is running the company and paying himself huge dividends. Moreover, he has tried more than once to fire me, and Oliver; he tried to diminish you, as well; and he tried to bury the Teaching Mission, but could not succeed. It hardly matters, though, because it is altogether sullied, totally besmirched by the grandiosity inherent in the Circus it has become.
Gerdean
'''Rob wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:57 PM'''
Errors do not belittle the inherent value of faith children of God learning to walk with him. Do we stumble, of course, but only to see more clearly the step upon which we lift ourselves to press on.
'''Oliver Deux wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 9:50 PM'''
Dear STuTe:
Semantics is a treacherous field. 'Delusional' means that it is characterized by delusion, which is nothing more than a mistaken opinion or an erroneous belief. It is also used in descriptions of mental disorders, such as in the descriptions of paranoiac disorders. I can not forget that when the first devastating warning of imminent destruction to our planet came through, Ron put up a tickertape across the Archives webpage for this monumental announcement to the planet. And he has apt the antics ever since.
I can not immagine that it has escaped any of your regular Flurry fans that flagrant grandiosity is a landmark characteristic of our brother, and his propensity to channel the most spiritually influential and powerful exclusively does indeed give me some clues about his mindset. At the same time I am clueless of why only a few of us recognize what has been happening for so many years now. Or only a few speak.
I am simply not pleased when I am constantly confronted by my Urantian fellow students with these so-called transmissions that are not only contradictory, but also incomplete and regularly sensationalistic. This is simply not how I am used to being taught by the many different teachers that compiled The Urantia Book or the decades of rather consistent teachings in our Teaching Mission.
However, I like to be fair, and if you think I am not, what do you want me to do now?
You are absolutely correct, many of my friends, some family members, sometimes even my kids, believe that I am delusional. It is just a word that is often used derogatorily, but there is really no better one that I have found to describe consistent mistaken opinions and erroneous beliefs.
I appreciate that you want to wait for more evidence. During our recent 7.9 earthquake, I received what I considered a hilarious cartoon, saying: "We apologize for any inconvenience, but we Mayans are testing for the end of this year." To me it is unadulterated blasphemy to perpetuate beliefs that our omnipotent God can not keep a little troubled planet, that his Creator-Son choose among other troubled planets to further reveal the unconditional love, omnipresence and unlimited creativity of our one Father of all of His children. And then conclude that if Father wants to interfere for whatever divine reason, that the celestial hierarchy is not set up to do so.
I am not even interested in predictions for a variety of reasons, among them being spirit poisons. First of all, it seems odd to me that while we are still agondonters we want to know much more than obviously can be given to us due to our pay grade. Predictions are a treacherous thing and not solvable from a time-and-space perspective. Yes, there are celestial statisticians working for the Father to predict, but they will give their finding on-a-need-to-know basis. And I do not need to know, lest my faith is jeopardized. Can anyone see that?
As I look more carefully at predictions, it would appear that we mortals are concerned with matters beyond our status. And that brings me quickly to my theory that from of tribal shamans to the MS mission tribe, we have seen attempts by some humans, mostly self-appointed leaders, to up their image, look better than their other mission members, and thus almost automatically get put on a pedestal and protected by their fans. This, I am sure is not part of the Paradise mode of doing things, and the higher the being hail from, the more they should point this out to us. But in these transmission they just don't, which raises a red flag right there.
They don't because we create their tales, and we would not cut off our own power that we derive from acting out of delusions of grandeur. If this sounds hard-nosed and relentless to you, it merely reveals the individual's concern for status -- unconsciously or consciously. And I have no idea as yet which it is. I was hoping for a discussion and not just a you-should-not-think-that-way, you-are-not fair, give-the-brother-a-chance. The brother will either go on to uphold his status, or he will not. If the latter is the case, we will hardly be able to find out what has been going on.
Having just observed, or even participated in a delusional election --and naturally I say this without delegating blame, because I think the correct person won-- let me add that a concern for status most often brings separation between individuals, which we observe for years on this list and in other related media venues. The universe I have learnt about is run on oneness, strives towards wholeness, and always integrates instead of separates. These matters are about our individual and personal growth if we allow fearless and honest evaluation.
Allow me to be as specific as I can on this Saturday night, where I usually cuddle up with some popcorn and spiritual cinema. The assumption that we R/Ts can not transmit garbled and delusional material is a false assumption. This process requires honesty and humility that allows us to continue to trust this entire process. Ron has been unwilling to engage in any manner other than telling us his personal constructs. Eat them or you will be sorry. He acts as if he was above it all, as some other R/Ts act as well. He certainly is not the only one, but he presently presents the most controversial material.
No matter who receives, all must be taken with the responsibility of personal evaluation. There are many for whom this is a real issue, whether they dare to speak out or not. It is quite simple, anyone who can muster sufficient respect for the beliefs of his or her others will want to enlarge to understand better what is really going on. Problems can only occur when the receiver refuses to enter into a dialog that includes divulging his or her sources and their individual background and spiritual understanding. We must be able to discern the receiver and how she or he is empowered to love through the very knowledge they receive. Otherwise we are lost, as we presently are with this receiver.
Our assessments, discernments are at their best when they are given with mercy and are fair and just. Thus I am responding to you in what you might deem a defensive manner. But when a transmitter is obviously off-base what would you suggest should be done, other than appeal to fairness and allowing more chances? The wait-and-see attitude that some plead for today, when they yesterday were dancing on the bandwagon and waving flags?
In my experience there are parts in transmissions where true communication is actually occurring with our supernals triggered no less by their graciousness, acceptance, kindness and expressed love. And I can be completely humbled by the experience itself. But I can not keep this up during the entire transmission, it comes and fades. Afterwards I can underline the most sublime moments when I really connected, because those part are always full of loving kindness, fair didactics, and merciful patience. The teachers regularly stand in our Spirit Parent's love far beyond my meager capacity. They are role models to me, and when there are transmissions offered up where they are not, we should know that, and say so.
Most R/Ts want to emulate the teachers, even if it means that we use our own voices.
And I must agree with Brother George, who recently commented: "Ouija board and (unseen) Borderland stuff is probably not very healthy. ;-) "
Enjoy your weekend and worship in your own unique way.
Oliver
'''Gerdean wrote:Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:24 PM'''
Loud and clear, Oliver.