1992-11-11-More On Materializations

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Topic: More On Materializations

Group: Indianapolis TeaM

Facilitators

Teacher: Welmek, Curtis, Raymon

TR: Unknown

Session

Opening

WELMEK: Good evening, everyone. It is good to be back with you once again. Sunday afternoon proved to be most informative, I'm sure you will agree. Once you have an opportunity to read the transcripts, much of the information will become clearer to you. Before we start, I wish to comment on the prayer. I can tell you that all of us gathered here this evening are deeply moved. You have well understood the lesson on effective prayer. If you continue to pursue your praying in this way, it will not only help you focus your mind, which has many positive ramifications in dealing with your material existence, but it also helps you to focus the feeling from within, the recognition of the love of the Father and the outpouring thereof.

Lesson

Teaching Mission

Your petition has been made a part of record now, and we will do what we can in conjunction with the other prayers that have been made, to do what is possible in this situation. I'm sure you're well aware of the difficulty that we have, for we cannot simply step in and take over. We must make these things happen through human action. When a situation is as chaotic as it is, it is most difficult; but you do help. Your prayer is effective and it will benefit those who suffer.

Once again, as I said, there are many personalities here with us tonight. There is an enormous amount of activity now taking place on this planet. There are many requests coming to me each day asking that the individual be able to speak to the group in preparation for their assignments. I have three teacher assignments that I am prepared to share this evening, and there are more coming all of the time. The situation has become such that it has been determined by Machiventa that Ham should coordinate the teacher activity more fully and will probably not remain as the teacher for the Woods Cross group. Another teacher assignment will be made. Why don't we engage in your questions, and we'll see about others speaking. (long pause) I have never known this group to be so quiet. (Group laughter)

Dialogue

Q: Welmek, at the meeting on Sunday that not everyone was able to attend, you spoke, and I think Andrea also spoke about possible materialization of the teachers who come to the meetings, including yourself. I was wondering if you could expand upon that for those who weren't able to make it to the meeting on Sunday.

Materializations

A: It is our intention at some point in time, to enable you to be able to see us. It has been determined that this will do much to facilitate the outworking of this mission. However, there are many things to consider. As I mentioned before to David and others, there are aspects that you do not think of that we must consider. Once this phenomenon begins to occur on your planet, word will spread. There is no stopping this. As this word spreads, many things will happen. There will be those curiosity-seekers who will come. There will be those truth-seekers who will come, and there will be the distractors. It is imperative that you strengthen your character to endure what may come. You do not know all that can happen. I do wish to say this in any way whatsoever to alarm you, only to make you aware of the fact that if you truly desire to witness these things, there is responsibility that goes along with it. One example that I gave was, if in this meeting right now, it is possible for me to make you see me, there is no question that we have this ability; but I would ask you this question. If I did this and it created fear within any one individual, and this fear translated itself into psychic tension and potentially caused harm, who takes the responsibility? We must be mindful of these types of things. It is also something that will start a reaction of a global nature, and therefore we must be prepared. This process moves quickly. Even I am impressed at the speed at which we are endeavoring to accomplish this, whereas to you it seems to, at times I'm sure, drag on. You must be patient. You must allow things to happen as we have deemed them to be advisable. Each group will be able, in time, to see their teacher. As to further details, I do not fully see the need to give them right now. The Machiventa appearance is still being worked on; and as indicated, we still plan this to take place in the spring.

Q: Welmek, maybe it would help us to prepare ourselves if we had a little bit of warning so that anyone who was apprehensive or fearful or hesitant about actually visualizing you could prepare themselves and decide whether or not they wanted to be present at the time of your appearance. What do you think of that?

A: If anyone continually comes to these meetings, then I would be curious as to why they would not wish to see me. However, I would say that that is a consideration that we have well-discussed; and we will decide which course of action to take. But your comment is appreciated, for it shows thoughtfulness on your part in consideration of others. We always think of you first in regards to speaking or potential appearances. We all love you very much and we do want to help you any way that we can. It is why we are here. Yet the human nature is very fragile; and we must, as you say, tread lightly, in order not to cause any harm, for I do not wish to be responsible for such an event.

Q: Welmek, there have been, I understand, people discussing what you look like to the extent of saying "Well, how many heads or arms or whatever?"...(group laughter) No, really, I'm thinking about this seriously because of a suggestion that I've thought of in the last few days that may be one of the things that you're considering is..I'm not going to ask you now for a general description of what the teachers look like, but this might be something to prepare the group, too. The Urantia Book says that on most inhabited worlds, the intelligent creatures are upright, bipedal, bi-symmetrical beings. Many people have not read the Urantia Book and don't get that picture. They may picture something like some science fiction movie, which would be more frightening to them. So this is just a suggestion that if they could form some sort of mental image beforehand, it might be helpful. I don't know if you've considered this.

A: The morontial form, in your standards, is most exquisite. I am not concerned with frightening someone based on pure physical appearance. What concerns us more is the fact of appearance, the actual confirmation, in vision, of my reality. This can have effects beyond what you are aware of. Even though one may be willing to witness this, once it occurs, it could possibly create a reaction within the system of the human mechanism that might be harmful. This is why it is important that you study, that you read the lessons, that you ask questions of clarification, that you do what I have asked. All of these things, to date, that have been asked of you will do much to build your character. It will build the confidence within you. Your picturizations of alien and spirit beings, many times are very grotesque. (laughter The beings, the mortals on other planets, indeed, do vary in physical appearance quite substantial than yours. I have been most interested in the fact that you have not probed me more fully as to my physical appearance on my native planet when you ask so many other questions. (laughter)

Q: We were curious.

A: However, once you take on a morontial form, it is different; and it is, as I said, most beautiful in your terms.

Q: Welmek, when you materialize or become visual to us, and from your morontial form I guess, to a more material form, do you have the option to assume an appearance that you choose, or will you assume the appearance of your own native body?

A: I will take the appearance as I am now. It simply will be made visible to you.

Q: Will you still have to talk through David or Michael or will you be able to talk yourself?

A: Fascinating question. We are endeavoring to facilitate the actual speaking on our own as your Master did when he visited in the appearances after the resurrection. Once again, a Sovereign Creator has prerogatives we do not. Therefore, we cannot do that which he does as easily as he does. I cannot tell you, however, that I will always appear to you each week. This is something that has not yet been decided either. I could go on substantially as to all of the aspects that we must consider in the outworking of just this one thing, and yet we are assigned many responsibilities to help your planet.

Q: It seems to me that once the appearance is made, that you might fill many large buildings with your teachers for all the people that want to come, whether they be believers or non-believers. I suppose that this is something that you, too, have anticipated?

A: It is a serious consideration.

Q: Wouldn't it then be possible for humans to assume that you are then going to interfere in the interactions of government or other social institutions and want the spirit beings to, in effect, take over?

A: A critical consideration, for we cannot, as you know, do this. Yet, again, it is human nature as we observe, that if you see me, and if many see me, you will then want to "elect" me as your representative. (laughter) And you will, in a sense, push me on your government. Your intentions are very good, but yet we cannot do this. This, indeed, is as I said, a critical consideration.

Q: How do you see getting around that with us, knowing us as well as you do?

A: All that I will say is that it is still under discussion.

Q: If part of our responsibility, as far as preparing for your appearance, won't that be to understand the nature of your mission and understand the role that you take so that we can sort of help people to understand? If we're part of the mission, then it would seem to me that we have to really apply ourselves to understanding what's going on so that we can help clarify some of these mistakes.

A: I could not say it better myself.

Q: Whose idea was this, and for what real purpose other than curiosity (?) for you to materialize?

A: Actually, the materialization is in response to the many requests of the humans themselves. We understand that it is only through faith and the recognition of the Spirit of Truth within that my words mean anything to you at all. As far as the purpose, the purpose has many aspects to it. First and foremost, we are mandated by Michael himself to see that this mission is a success. Therefore, in our many discussions we look at various facts as to how do we ensure the success? One way that we have determined that will solidify the members' minds, your minds, the reality and seriousness of what we endeavor to do is to enable you to see us. There are many other aspects, but this is one of the primary considerations. I would ask you gathered here tonight. If you saw me, would it have an impact upon you?

GROUP: Absolutely,....yes...I don't think I would be afraid............ overwhelmed..(laughter)...It would change our lives.. M: It would solidify my commitment. I mean, I'm already committed, but it's like the difference between taking driver's ed and using one of those simulators without actually getting in the car.

S: It's kind of like the difference between believing and knowing.

K: I don't think that any of us doubt your existence, and I don't think that it's necessary for us to see you to believe in you. However, it would be a wonderful experience. I think we all have faith that you do exist.

J: As far as I'm concerned, I don't think I could tell a lot of people any more than I can now.

S: They would find out. It only takes one person to leak it.

M: So even a non-believer, then, would be able to see your materialization?

A: It is possible.

M: Is this to be used as some sort of a helpful tool to draw others to the group?

A: It is actually designed, in the initial phase, to solidify your faith so that others may be brought to you. You, in turn, can share your faith with them; and hopefully that will make them want to come.

M: The major thing that I see is the sensationalism of it, and obviously it's unprecedented. It will create significant interest, world-wide, and I just think it's impossible for us to foresee what we're headed for.

K: Well, we can see what's happened in places like Fatima and Medjugorje and places like this where people plan pilgrimages just to be in a place where Mary was seen so that can give you a little bit of a perspective of what we're talking about here.

M: It's your house they're coming to. (laughter)

K: Well, you'll have to provide me with a maid. (laughter)

WELMEK: Consider this. Are any of you prepared for let us say, someone within your news media to come to you and to grill you with questions about the supposed visualization and what it means? I am not saying that this will necessarily happen; but I am saying that as the word does spread, and I guarantee you it will, are you prepared to take the responsibility that goes along with this? There is definitely responsibility. There, again, are many, many aspects to consider. I have only shared a handful with you, and it causes you to stop and think. If you could only see on my side the debate, discussion that takes place as to the wisdom in one act over another. Ultimately, we are commissioned, as teachers, to put together a plan and submit it to Machiventa. He in turn will take this plan to Michael. If approved by Michael, then watch out.(laughter)

Q: Welmek, what about the possibility of making that visualization to an individual in a private session versus making it to a group, and then having people who really don't understand anything about this at this point come for the curiosity of it? That would reinforce the individual's faith, as they were brought into this and wanted to understand it more, and to some degree eliminate some of those other sensational elements.

Q: I volunteer.

Q: With each of us, in a private session, is what I'm saying, versus coming to a group and then all these people coming in who don't know anything about this and are just here for those other reasons.

A: There are those in my association who take such a position. I personally do not. I am in favor of a group appearance.

Q: Why?

A: Actually, I have many reasons, but primarily, you have all been very faithful so far, at least in attendance. However, to varying degrees, you have practiced what I have asked you to practice. Nevertheless, it is because of your faith and your consecrated will at this point, that I believe it would unify the group that much more. This is one of my priorities. Therefore, I feel I can accomplish what I have been set out to do by making an appearance to the group as a whole rather than individuals. This does not preclude that I would not make individual appearances, but I believe my first appearance would be most beneficial for many reasons if made in front of the group. However, the debate is not over.

Q: Welmek, can we take a vote here and see if we want individual or group? (laughter)

Q: We want to vote.

Q: Why not vote? I mean, it might not be up to us, but at least we can get our two cents in.

Q: I think there's more to it than just voting or deciding by a majority what we want to do. We really have to consider how everyone really feels, and if someone's not prepared in some way for this to happen, consider that too.

Q: Welmek, I would ask a question. If I'm understanding what is being said correctly, and what I hear people say, if in fact these visualizations occur, the purpose is that that would greatly strengthen our commitment and our willingness to do more than what we are now doing. I curious as to what more would you see us doing as a result of this, what level of greater commitment are you looking for beyond what you now see?

A: I perceive, as do all of my associates, we are unanimous, that if this were made possible, you would worship every day and feel the love more fully than you do now. This is a prime objective. We encourage you to do this and you make attempts, some more than others, some more effectively than others; but it is not uniform within the group, nor is it as complete as we wish it to be. Please understand it is important that you do this, for in doing this, you will, in time, be able to open the channels completely, to be able to commune with the spirit inside who is your eternal guide and teacher. I am not. It is this guide who will lead you to the Father Himself. This is our primary purpose in being here, as I have said.

Observation

Q: Are you aware of the level of the commitment of each one of us?

A: More or less. Yes.

Q: How are you aware of that?

A: I have many associates who have been assigned to assist me in the recording of events as well as feedback of information.

Q: Are you talking about what we do in our daily lives? How we pray? Or how we worship? Is this what you're talking about?

A: Yes.

Q: Welmek, when we are worshiping, does someone read our minds, see what we're doing? Or do they just observe that we are trying to be in a meditative state?

A: Actually both. When you engage in worship, you signal the spirit fragment as well as us that this begins. And so it is with prayer. There are also many angels involved in this process who keep us abreast of the efforts that you make. We do not trespass on your privacy. We respect that. We would never penetrate any level of mind on any individual if that level of mind we have perceived is something which you do not wish us to be involved with. Nevertheless, we are aware of your attempts to pray and to worship. We are also made aware of the major decisions that you make that affect character building.

Worship

Q: Welmek, on days when you have a particularly busy day and say you have five or ten minutes, and you use that time for worship because you don't have time to really sit down and meditate and worship and pray, is that still an effective worship?

A: It is a matter of quality, not quantity. What I want you to be able to do is to feel this love inside of yourself. That is paramount; for in feeling this love, you will do much to benefit not only your physical mechanism, but you will prepare the way that will allow us to bring people to you.

Q: The visualization technique that [gave us on Sunday] was the diamond and the spectrum of the colors and the light. It seems from trying to do this, that that was a little bit more effective in feeling the love; but yet I still am kind of perplexed why that visualization works so much better than just trying to think about the Father. Can you clarify that for me?

A: It is only one attempt at a visualization process. In that meeting there were varying degrees of attunement. I encourage you to find your own technique. Humans will continually ask us to help them, to give them something to focus on. Andrea selected this as just one way of doing this. It matters not what symbols you use. She was clear on this point. We are not trying to engage you in any mystical interaction whatsoever. What we want you to be able to do is to settle your mind, (most of you have made comments that you have difficulty in doing this) settling your mind and allowing the feeling to swell up from within. There will be considerable discussion about this feeling next week, but in essence it is the feeling of love from within that will help to heal your whole body as well as your mind.

Q: Welmek, when this materialization comes around and let's say the media starts coming, are we going to be, well, I know that all of us are going to be prepared for it or halfway anyway, are we going to have the extra help from you guys and other sources, to be able to handle the pressure that's there?

A: Have we not discussed about your guides? Have we not discussed that the more sincere you practice what you have been asked to do the better able you will be to communicate with these guides? We will give you all the help that we can. Once again, I do not wish to alarm you. We will do the best that we can not to ask anything from you that you are not capable of handling. I am also only suggesting the possibility of an inquiry from someone as a reporter, but I do want you to consider that it is not simply a matter of seeing me and then you go home and things are as they were before. Your lives will change.

Q:Wekmek, when you talked about your associates that observe us, during a personal session with you, you stated that you had assigned an associate to me and that eventually I would perhaps be able to communicate with this associate. Is there anything that I can do to facilitate that other than just my daily worship and prayer?

A:Obviously the decisions that you make throughout the course of your daily life have a major impact. The concept of forgiveness has a significant impact. I would tell you that, and I speak to this group as a whole, although you do the best that you can now as far as worship, there is still much that needs to be added so that you gain a much better conscious understanding of this communion with the Father. Aside from this, there is really little that you can do; but do not underestimate what it is that you have already been asked to do.

Q:To have thoughts of the Father foremost in our minds throughout the day, is that really what you're referring to regardless of whether we're in the meditative or not, if we're always thinking about "How would the Father want me to handle this?" and just kind of keeping the thoughts of Him and Michael in our minds. Is that what you're referring to?

A:Not only the thoughts, but also the feelings. But yes, this is exactly what I am referring to. You will find an interesting change in perspective once you have begun to master this more fully; and as you suggested, when you are faced with a situation, rather than the typical reaction, usually by emotion, you stop and reflect "How would Jesus, or how would my Father want me to respond in this situation?" As time progresses, and you become more proficient in this technique, can you not glimpse the relationship you will then be able to develop with the spirit fragment within? Now you are consciously and wholeheartedly asking this spirit to intelligently guide you, but it does take a lot of work on your part to do this.

Q:Well, it kind of goes back to the lesson we had on patience a couple of weeks ago. Reading the transcript this week, it was kind of hard to follow because there was so much discussion, but it seems the three components that are necessary for patience are the timing and the understanding and seeking the stillness. The understanding would then lead to wisdom, wisdom to know the right thing to say, the wisdom to have the ability to act in the appropriate manner; and that way we would be facilitating our spiritual growth. That's kind of what I got out of that lesson.

A:The three basic components of patience are understanding your ability to control the situation and the recognition of the time factor in order to achieve the desired results.

Q:That also will increase our wisdom though, won't it?

A:How would you respond to that question?

Q:Well, I would hope it would. I would think that especially if our understanding, if we would have greater understanding, that would increase our wisdom.

A:It is as you say.

Q:Welmek, this week Mary and I got into an extensive discussion on some of these things. Mary, are you there?

M:Here I am.

Q:Did you bring notes?

M:No.

Q:I didn't either. One of the things that I wanted to ask about was forbearance. We talked a lot about patience, mentioned tolerance, but I gather that forbearance as used in the Urantia Book (118:1.6) is even more developed than tolerance. I'm not sure about this. Is it a correct assumption on my part that the way the words are used in the book that you go from patience to tolerance to forbearance; or have I missed something?

A:No, you have not missed anything. I would suggest to you that in reference to forbearance you might consider it as durability, the ability to withstand the time that it takes in order to achieve the oneness that you seek.

Q:But in that case is the ability you talk about based upon a deeper understanding of the relationship to that event and time?

Faith

A:It is not necessarily a deeper understanding of the event, although in time this will come. What it deals with directly is a deeper understanding of the Father's relationship to you, your faith-grasp of the Father. None of you gathered here this evening completely live the faith which you have.

Q:What does that mean?

A:That means that in your relationship with the Father, you do your best now to worship, to commune. Yet your faith goes much deeper. You do not recognize the depth of the faith, for if you did, your worship would be stronger and more meaningful than it is.

Q:What else can we do except do what we're doing each day?

A: That is all that you can do. However, each must ask the question, "Am I doing what I have been asked to do as effectively as I can?" If you answer yes to this question, then indeed you are doing all that you can. That is all that is asked of you.

Q:What would be an example of that deeper level of trying to develop your faith that you were just talking about?

A: An example of developing faith would be one's own ability to commune with the spirit fragment. The more you engage in this practice, intelligently, wisely, engage in this practice, the sooner you will facilitate the communication.

Q:Well, you know we talked about effective prayer for two weeks, and I don't know if we ever really talked about effective worship. There are times when I think that I am worshiping, but there seems to be a point where it becomes redundant. I know you said that in worship it doesn't matter if we say the same thing over and over, but yet there just seems to be level of worship that kind of reaches a plateau. I don't know how to get to a deeper depth of worship.

A: We will engage more fully in this next week. However, I would ask you this question. Do you, in your worship each day, talk to the Father and recount your experiences, the decisions that you made that either brought you closer or perhaps kept you away from Him?

Q:Are you asking me?

A: I am asking you.

Q:Sometimes. I guess I could be a lot better at that. That's the answer, right?

A: Yes. Each day is a new opportunity. Each day is a new adventure for each one of you to engage in this faithful living. Yet you do not fully engage, for you allow yourselves to devitalize the energy that you consume by allowing the negative emotions to enter your being and consume your thoughts. This is part of what we will discuss more fully next week, but it is important that you recognize these emotions for what they are and eliminate them as soon as you can. Some of what I say will be inconsistent with what you hear from your current practitioners of mental health; but as I have said before and I will say very strongly now, there can be no true mental rehabilitation without a conscious recognition of the gospel of Jesus as he lived it on this planet. Until the human race recognizes that there is a Father and that Jesus' message was lived for all creation within this universe, you will find the harmony that you look for on a planetary scale. Having said that, we must do this on an individual basis, once again one of my prime directives in working with you.

It constantly confounds me when I have observed some of your doctors of mental health counsel people with the thought in mind that God is not relevant. It is true that the God of anger, the God of wrath, the God of atonement is not true; and therefore I subscribe to them not dwelling on this type of creator. But it is time to wake up to the reality that the Father is not like this. What father of normal mind would be wrathful, would be angry at their children? It makes no logical sense to us, whatsoever. Yet it prevails on your planet. Those of you who have been fortunate to read the teachings and the life of Jesus in your text have truly been blessed. You have been given an insight beyond what normal mortals are able to achieve. Blessed are those who live the gospel of Jesus, yet have not read the book. Take the faith that you have. Live it more fully than you do now.

Q: Welmek, I introduced one of my friends to the Urantia Book; and she's been reading it. She has questions such as this; and she doesn't quite understand this theory, or this way, that God is really the Father and it's people that are causing pain and crime and anger and the hatred on earth. I've been trying to explain that; and she can't quite get it. Is there anything that you could tell me to help her understand a little bit better?

A: So, in other words, she is not willing to take responsibility for her own actions. Is this what you are saying?

Q: I think so. That's the way I understand it. I can't quite get it across to her that it does come from responsibility and that the individual can effect the change.

A: Does she have children?

Q: Yes, she does.

A: You might consider this. Ask her, first of all, does she truly love the child? Let's assume that she does. If the child behaves in an inappropriate manner, is it her fault, if she has done what she can to try to educate the child, to love the child, to help them behave in a more appropriate manner? I say to you that as the child grows, it becomes the child's responsibility to be responsible for their own behavior. The parent cannot always be responsible. There comes a point in time when the individual must take this responsibility. As a loving mother, she understands the desire to help the child, not to punish the child for illicit or wrongful behavior. Deal with her in these terms. It is, or should be, obvious to you why we use these references all of the time. There is in our assessment no better way to explain to you the relationship of the Father in Heaven to you than that of the parent. Once you have left this world and you become a citizen of the morontial worlds, there will be an awareness beyond that which you have now. It will start to open up, that is, your understanding will expand. The concept of the Father will grow. It will take on new characteristics. There will be new concepts that you will be able to understand. For now, there is nothing, and believe me, we, as well as the commission who put this book together have discussed much about what can be done to help you understand more fully the Father, God, the First Source and Center. We continually come to the same conclusion.

Q: Welmek, what is grace?

A: Grace is a gift of the Father. Consider it as help, if you will, in your abilities to achieve more. It is also in recognition of that which you have done which has been consistent with the will of the Father. Grace allows us to grow in spirit.

Q: Welmek, sometimes as I listen to our discussions about worship, it seems I hear a lot of..people think that in worship it's just a matter of thanking the Father, and there seems to be a focus upon words. People seem to struggle with "Well, how do I say thank you in how many different ways?" But isn't in a sense, can worship be the feeling of the Father's love and the feeling of love for the Father and simply sustaining and maintaining that sense of that feeling for a while, almost to the point of elevating that to a song, so to speak within your own heart or a sense of praise for the Father? That feeling, isn't that a form of worship and the words are not necessary?

A: It is your attitude that is recognized. As I have told you before, the words tend to help you focus, for the Father already knows your requests, He knows your feelings, He knows your thoughts. But it helps you to focus. You are indeed correct. It is the feeling that is transferred to the Father. Have you not all experienced in your lifetime this feeling of love for another? Does not this feeling at the moment you feel it transcend any word that you could possibly utter to describe this feeling? Do you not also in this same situation feel the feeling of love coming from the other individual and does that not inspire you also?

Q: Clarification of something that was said earlier. I just wish to make sure I understand. You indicated that we would be able to see you, as I understand, in a morontia form. Concerning the materialization of Melchizedek, does that also mean that we would see Melchizedek in a morontia form or are we talking about Melchizedek actually materializing as a flesh-and-blood human?

A: The discussion is still going on. I am inclined to believe that it will be of a morontial form. It is not yet time for him to materialize in the flesh to engage in the mission set forth. But, I have been known to be wrong before. (laughter) But not often... (more laughter)

Q: You may not always be right, but you're never wrong, huh?

A: I like that way of phrasing it. (laughter)

Mysticism

Q: Welmek, you mentioned mysticism earlier as something we should avoid. I'm wondering if you could elaborate on what are some of the negative aspects of mysticism that we should be alerted to.

A: Primarily within your mind, if you begin to engage in these so- called "mystical" experiences, you delude yourself into thinking you are communicating with the spirit fragment or other personalities when, in fact, this all transpires within your own mind. It is not necessary to go off to some distant place to seek the Father. You can do it anywhere, with practice, with attunement. It is not my, or any of my associates' intentions to misguide you into thinking you are communicating with your spirit fragment when in fact you are having this so-called "mystical" experience. It is important for us in helping you to focus, to be careful on the symbols that we give you, for in private sessions, many of you have come to me and asked to validate certain experiences that you have had, when all that I can find in the records is that it has been more of a mindal experience than that of a true spirit contact. These things are difficult to sort out, especially with your lack of experience; for in your mind, mystical experiences are very real. How else could you describe them than that as something which comes from outside of yourself, for you are not capable, or so you believe, of doing or communicating in such a fashion. Does that help you?

Q: I guess the next question would be, how can we sharpen our ability to distinguish that which emanates from our own subconscious and that which is given to us from the spirit?

A: This is a most difficult task for you. I would suggest to you that in the case of if you believe you have communication from a guide, your spirit fragment, your angel, or another source, that you listen closely and ask within yourself for confirmation. Secondly, consider the content of the information. What is being said? How does it affect your life? Ask yourself the basic questions that Machiventa discussed in a previous session. If it meets this criterion, although you may still be incorrect in your assessment of the source, what is most important is that the content has helped you. The concept of mysticism that I refer to is that human nature is inclined, once these visualizations take place, there seems to be this ability or desire to conjure up, if you will, these images. You may not consciously do this, but nevertheless it does happen. You see things within your mind's eye and you believe it is a manifestation of me of a spirit, or angel, or whatever, when in fact it is only a subconscious emanation. We had much discussion whether or not we would share certain symbolization techniques to help you focus. I was more cautious than others, but this is my nature. I watch closely, for I am concerned that any techniques we share with you are understood and used with the proper intention, not to solicit some form of mystical or unreal experience. Again, accept these things as only techniques of focusing your thought as well as your feeling, not that you should see something within the colors that is not there. You remember that we have discussed this color phenomenon before, and it is just that, a natural phenomenon. It is not representative of spirit representation. This is inconsistent with certain thoughts, with certain forms of ideology, certain forms of thinking. Some people will not accept what I say. I cannot change that. But what I can tell you is what I know to be part of reality.

Q: I guess you're also considering the possibility of an outbreak of mysticism when you materialize, huh, on the part of humans?

A: Actually, we are not overly concerned with that; for you will see this in an awake state of mind and you will have confirmation from many others if we do engage the first time in a group setting. Mystical experiences tend to originate when one is alone.

Q: Welmek, are you saying that all mystical experiences are bad, that none of it is good?

A: I am saying by my definition of mystical experience they are not what the individual perceives them to believe.

Q: I'm thinking of some of the so-called great mystics of our religions and history, such as St. Francis of Assisi. What do you think about him and his mystical experiences?

A: Well, there is not a unanimous opinion discussing this issue..(laughter) I am inclined not to discuss certain humans' experiences beyond the particular members of this group. The reason is manifold. Let us say what we have already said. If any experience that you have meets the criteria that Machiventa gave you, then accept it as beneficial. However, I would caution you not to think so much in terms that I, again, an angel, your Thought Adjuster, has impressed you with this. Within your mind is such a vast knowledge. You do not understand mind at all. There is so much potential within your mind, and yet you utilize very little. Much of the information that the so-called mystics have shared with the rest of the planet has been, again, mindal emanations. They have not been inspired. However, there are many accounts on your world of literal revelation on an individual basis. These things you must decide for yourself, as I had to decide for myself when I was early in my training and attunement of my spirit fragment. There is a definite element of faith involved; but the faith is something that can be realized in experience.

Q: Welmek, do you and the other teachers kind of foresee the materialization will be seen by a lot of people on earth as like the Second Coming?

A: It is a consideration. How is it when there are those who are fearful of the student visitors coming here who supposedly abduct them and do these types of things, how is it that they will respond once they hear of this?

Q: It depends on whether you look like them or not.

A: I assure you we do not look as the pictures depict them to be.

Q: I think the hardest part of spreading the word after your appearance is going to be that earth people don't consider your existence. If it were Christ or Mary or Joseph or a saint or somebody like that making an appearance, they might be able to understand that a little bit more. But since they don't know of you and they don't understand what happens after our death on this planet, and the morontial form and so on and so forth, I think it's going to be very difficult to explain to those who have not already read the Urantia Book and understand that concept.

A: All the more reason why each one gathered in this group, if they wish to participate, should have a good understanding of the text as well as a strong character.

Q: What comprises a strong character?

A: You tell me.

Q: I suppose the most important aspect to me would be a complete trust in the Father, or as complete as we're capable of developing at this point.

A: I would say on a scale of 1 to 10, that is a 10. (tape turned, question and part of answer lost)

A: However, I ask each one gathered here tonight to make a list of 10 characteristics that you feel are necessary to comprise a true and strong character. Be ready. I may not necessarily tell you when I wish to engage in this conversation. (laughter)

Q: Ah, a pop quiz. (laughter)

Q: Welmek, over the last week of so, I've had one of as you call it, windows of opportunity, to talk with some friends of mine about the Father's will. We came to the discussion about heaven and hell; and I used the example that you gave earlier as why would a Father punish His children if He truly loves them. Is there another example that I can use to further illustrate this point?

A: Who wishes to engage in this response? . . Surely most of you at one point or another have thought of this.

Q; I remember reading in a novel a few years ago, a science fiction novel that was about the concept of hell, and I don't know if Steve has read this or not, but it gives some insight into if hell existed, what would it be like? I personally don't believe in the existence of hell, but some of the ideas would be is, one is like a reformatory, or another would be like a not just an infinite punishing place or something like that. But in all of these fictional examples, even going back to Dante's hell from The Inferno, I don't think that any of them serve the purpose that they're really prescribed for. We are here to learn the Father and learn to be better ourselves, and hanging this idea of a hell over our heads is not an effective deterrent, to me, to keep people from doing bad things so to speak. Ultimately speaking, we all have the choice to move on in our morontial career or to not move on. But other than that, there is no reason for a hell.

Q: You'd have to think of God as being a very vindictive, petty person; and the emphasis is on the word "person". If you would think of Him as wanting to everlastingly torment and punish someone for something that they did in a relative flicker of time and maybe even out of a lack of understanding or comprehension, certainly out of a lack of real faith or belief in God, you know, that God would want to do something like that, is so illogical and so inconsistent with even what the Bible teaches and especially what Jesus said about having seen him, you've seen the Father. Anyone who really recognized what he meant by that would see that it would be incomprehensible for the Father to want to put that kind of a punishment on anyone for anything that they did while they were mortal.

A: Let me ask you this question. Which is the most effective motivator, love or force?

Q: Love.

A: And there is your answer. Hell is only a concept created to induce people to behave in a certain way. It has no bearing in reality as far as the Father is concerned. You must, indeed, engage this individual in an understanding of the gospel of Jesus. All the more reason, however, to fully, as best you can, understand the gospel of Jesus. It has been presented to you in full account. Please, I encourage you all to continue to read your text. There is so much information. There are so many answers to your questions contained within his life. It is not that I am not willing to give you answers, but it is time in our training to get you to think more on your own in response to these questions. For there will be myriads of questions asked of you if you claim to have seen me.

Q: You know what, Welmek, it just occurred to me. A lot of people don't believe that love is more effective than force. People are very cynical about the concept of applying love, you know, drawing more flies with honey than vinegar and all that; and that's probably the biggest challenge in our group is to effectively portray the love of the Father to everyone, and consistently.

Q: They also think what can one individual do when there's so much . . they limit their own ability, their own faith.

Q: One of the approaches I used in a conversation one time I remember I got into one with a woman who thought that if a person wasn't Christian they would go to hell. As I pointed out to her this included millions, billions of Buddhists and Hindus, etc., and we got into the nature of a Father that would create children that He knew were condemned forever. She had three children, so I related everything to how she would react in this situation. It was interesting, but what it came down to in the end was I said "Why would I believe, why would I want to believe in a God that couldn't be as merciful as I can. I couldn't do this to a child, and why would I want to worship a God that couldn't be as nice as me. After that she said, "Yeah, okay." For this particular woman, that argument got her.

Q: I have another suggestion. Perhaps this person, you could find out if they're creative, an artist or something, and if they've created works, whether it's necessarily art or something practical, but do they destroy them out of vengeance because they do something that's not quite right?

Q: It's a good point. Well, he believes in a vengeful God and I made a bet with him. I said "After we pass this physical vale, then if you're right you believe that you and I will never meet again, but if I'm right you owe me dinner." (laughter) He didn't take me up on it..

A: It is quite remarkable, is it not, the lack of understanding of our Father on your planet.

Q: I think that people believe in a vengeful God because they have so little love in themselves and in their lives that they can't conceive of the love of a Father that would forgive.

A: It's like they are the dove who is contained within the can. Once you take the can away from the dove, it will fly away and be free. But hate serves the same purpose. It encloses you and keeps you from seeing the light. These emotions, as I have said, we will discuss more next week; but these emotions, hate, anger, fear, greed and on and on do keep you in the dark.

Q: It's sad to think that as children we're all-trusting and all-loving and the adults are teaching the children to fear and to hate. It's just really sad because we begin so pure.

Q: I have a comment. When I went to a Catholic high school, when I was in religion class (I've gone through this for 6 or 7 years now) and the very first classes I was in we would get into the discussions about "If we doubt, are we going to go to hell?". That was 6 years ago. And now, just a few weeks ago we asked how can God do this? I see it changing. I asked "Who told you that this can happen to you?" and most of them but not all of them said their parents told them that this was going to happen; and when they finally broke away and started making their own choices, they came to their own conclusions that they had no concept that God would want to do this to them.

A: You raise a good point. For once you take responsibility for your relationship with the Father, you will soon discern that there is no anger or wrath, as you would be made to believe by those who are taking the responsibility for you. There are no words to express our feeling for what happens to the children on your planet in these regards, for you are right in what you say, that they are very beautiful, they are very open, they look to you as the Father. They do not yet understand the difference. And yet so many times, this trust is taken advantage of; and by doing so, the child is deeply hurt. It takes a very strong-willed individual to overcome this hurt and to recognize the difference between the earthly parent and the heavenly parent.

Q: It seems to me that much of the reason why human beings have conceptualized God as being angry and wrathful and there is a hell has related to their own experience on this planet. We've been in spiritual isolation for such a long period of time, and our experience as human beings is "Why is it that such terrible things happen to us, and why is it God permits this?" I think that to some extent that's been the consequence of our spiritual isolation.

Q: If their father is beating them and punishing them and treating them terribly, and then they call God their Father, that's their image of their father, their parental guidance. That's what children see, so how else could they compare it but to have a wrathful Father?

A: I would suggest to you that the origins of eternal suffering and of a wrathful father were more of a human nature that was very self- fulfilling.

Q: In the Bible, in the Old Testament, God is very vengeful, so people who read the Bible and believe it, can believe this is the way He really is.

A: This is unfortunate, is it not?

Q:Yes, it is.

Q: There's a lot of churches and -isms and -ologies that teach fire and brimstone and fear of the Lord every day.

Q: That was not the conception of God on your planet, was it Welmek?

A: There was nothing remotely quite like that on my world.

Q: Did you suffer from culture shock when you came here?

A: An interesting way of looking at my initial reaction. (laughter)

Q: And your initial reaction was..?

A: I can tell you that in my preparation to come here, I was able to witness things that happened. I actually was able to talk to many Urantians who had developed an understanding comparable to mine so that I could better understand your nature from the theoretical point of view. But when I first came here, unfortunately, one of my first assignments was a situation that was not good. It involved people who were not God-conscious. Looking back, I see the wisdom in why I was assigned this duty, for it made me realize just how important this mission is.

Q: How long have you been on this planet, Welmek?

A: Four times. (laughter)

Q: She thought she was going to catch him.

Q: Well, some of the teachers do say "I have been here for 4 weeks, or I have been here for 2 years, or whatever. I wasn't trying to trap you, Welmek.

A: I understand your intent. I did not perceive it as such.

Q: Neither did I. I don't want to make that impression either.

A: Some things I will tell you and some things I won't.

Q: Welmek, I have a curiosity question. Are any of the apostles back on this planet? Well, I'm sure they're observing, but are they back here to assist in this mission?

A: I cannot comment on that.

Q: Welmek, so far in your coming here and observing, what has been the hardest thing for you to understand about us?

A: Allow me a moment to prioritize..(laughter)

Q: What are the 10 hardest things (laughter)..about our character that trouble you?

A: I would say what I find most peculiar is your lack of understanding your relationship with the Father. You say you have faith, yet you do not live it. You allow yourselves to be disrupted in daily life by circumstances which sometimes you have absolutely no control over whatsoever, yet you allow a reaction of emotion to take control. Then you may go a day, you may go a week or even longer before this emotion has run its course, and then you are able to once again try and feel the love of the Father. I find this most peculiar because your hearts say that you want harmony, you want happiness, you want love. Yet your behavior is not consistent with that.

Q: You didn't experience anything like that on your world?

A: Not nearly to the extent that you do. However, it is fair to say that in the early evolution of my planet, there was much that had to be worked out, just as there is on any evolutionary world. But again, remember, when I was born, my planet was already in the era of Light and Life for 2,000 of your years.

Q: So a lot of it is just the fact of our evolutionary status and we're still hounded by our animal fears and tendencies?

A: Partly. Yet you understand that it is you that keeps you from spiritual growth. You must take this responsibility. No one else keeps you from the Father.

Q: I think that one of our problems is the simple lack of accepting responsibility. Talking about a vengeful God is putting responsibility somewhere else, or on another person, or even on a government or whatever.

A: And again, in living your faith.

Q: And I think that what we need to do is to find, each of us need to find our own way of dealing with whatever emotion it is. For instance, as an example, you suggested to me to write a journal; and that seems to work for me. When I feel these emotional periods coming, I'm able to get it out right away by writing. So each of you need to find that outlet in which to rid ourselves of these negative emotions as quickly as possible. Because sometimes you have these emotions, and in your heart you're saying "I don't want to feel this way" but you still feel that way, so you need to find some way to release those as quickly as you possibly can.

A: And recognition of it is the beginning. As you recognize how it is you are reacting, you can then consciously begin the process of eliminating the vibrational level that you have created and instead harmonize yourself.

Q: Do you have any words that would help Brenda and her family in the trying times that they are in?

A: What I can say that I believe is of most benefit is to encourage her in the knowledge that the Father loves her and that she will engage in a new life shortly. There is so much love in our universe. You do not understand yet. The Father's plan is fair, it is reasonable, it is dominated by mercy. Your mother will survive death. She will be resurrected. She will engage in her ascension career. Help her feel the love of the Father come from you. Hold her and tell her that there will come another time when you will be able to be together again.

Q: Thank you, Welmek. I've done most of that. She told me six times yesterday how loving I was.

A: That does more than anything else I can suggest. You will find, perhaps not in your lifetime, but on your planet, that death becomes an opportunity of progression rather than a cessation of life. It is not the end, my friends, it is only the opportunity to begin again. You will go through this process, more or less, many times in your experience. What is so frightful for you is that you do not understand what comes, and anything unknown can create a fearful environment. Those gathered in this room, however, are beyond that. You know that there is the morontia life, there is the constellation course, there is the local universe study, and then you engage, we engage, as spirits as we head toward Paradise. It is actually a time of celebration on my planet, for we realize that it is just a transition. We realize that we will again be in the presence of our loved ones, and it is only a matter of time.

Suicide

Q: Welmek, I have a question. Earlier, before we started this evening, Michael and David and Stan and I were engaged in a conversation, although I was just listening, about people who choose to either take their own life or to have their life taken, assisted in taking their own life. Is there anything good, bad, indifferent from your point of view, about this particular issue?

A: About one committing suicide?

Q: Either by their own hand, or by asking someone else to do it for them.

A: I wish to clarify so that I understand correctly. Do you mean if one is terminally ill, do I encourage the termination of life? Or do you mean does one take their own life because they are unable to face the challenges of material living?

Q: Why don't you handle each issue separately, because I think they are separate issues.

A: I will comment on taking your life because you are not able to face material existence. I understand why many people would want to do this at times. However, it is important to realize that there is an opportunity here that you will never have again. There is an opportunity for spiritual growth beyond what you will ever experience; yet, once again, you do not understand these things and therefore it makes it difficult to appreciate them. I do not, under any circumstances, encourage the taking of one's life because they are finding it difficult to deal with material existence. In regards to termination of life due to terminal illness, I deem it advisable not to share with you my opinions.

Q: I think the question, Welmek, concerns..they were looking for clarification that even if some person were troubled and did take their own life, would they not survive? They're looking for clarification that they would survive.

A: We have given this answer before. There is on record no one who has ceased existence based on one life in the flesh on your world.

Q: Could you clarify what you said about the experience opportunities for spiritual advancement by (?) things in this lifetime?

A: The greatest opportunity for spiritual growth, for soul development, soul evolution, comes from the decisions you are faced with in the most difficult situations you can be put within. I can assure you, in your universe ascension career, nothing will be more difficult than what you face on this planet. (laughter)

Q: Thank God, thank heaven.

A: I wish to clarify. The challenges will be more complex, but you will know, you will have seen the reality, whereas now you must accept it by faith; and it is this acceptance by faith that lays the fertile ground for your soul growth. Do you not see how valuable you will become in the service of the Father when you can be sent on an assignment not knowing what it is you're sent to do, but you do it because you have the faith in the Father?

Q: So is this assignment sort of the same thing for you? I know it's a difficult assignment; and it seems, from my viewpoint, that things are so challenging and so difficult and would almost seem to be insurmountable if it weren't for your faith and your experience with the Father and the Father fragment. Is that so?

A: Difficult question to answer. My relationship with the Father obviously affords me a vision that you do not have. Before I came here, I was rehearsed and coached as to what I would experience; but as I said, it's not quite like being here. But I was aware, more or less, of what I was going to engage in. You, on the other hand, do not know what you are engaging in the bigger sense of the picture. You live your life as best you can, in hopes that as you continue to attune yourself with the Father, your life will become more fruitful, more filled with love. You make an interesting point. People, humans, tend to look at life as difficult situations. One lesson that we will engage in is to reverse your thinking to eliminate the word "difficult" as you perceive it, and change it to an opportunity to be in service, to be challenged, to be creative in thinking, to enhance faith and to be as I said, in service to where, once again, as you prove yourself, we can then bring people to you.

Q: Welmek, from what you said just a few minutes ago when you said that you may be sent out on assignments where you don't know what's going to happen, that doesn't mean that you're going to be sent out on assignments for which you have no training or you're not given skills or tools with which to complete the task. Are you?

A: It may be the assignment that will actually give you the skills and tools that were necessary to add to your personality at that point in time. The benefit that you have is that by your experience, your faith-grasp here, you do not doubt that the Father is real and that He is dominated by love. You are certain within yourself of this. You are as trusting as this little child. Where there are those who grow up on planets that are settled in Light and Life who have accepted this from the very beginning, their faith may not have been tested quite as yours. Therefore, their reaction to certain assignments may not be quite the same as yours. Therefore, it may be determined that even though you may not have the reservoir of experience, you have what is considered more important and therefore may be given responsibilities that exceed your experience. Think upon this.

Q: Welmek, I was wondering if I could ask a curiosity question. I've been wondering this, I don't know why, for a long time. I was wondering what is the average amount of time it takes for a human from our planet to traverse the mansion worlds.

A: I would have to research that for you. Interesting question. What is also interesting is when I do research, sometimes I am not permitted then to divulge the information. (laughter)

Q: Is it then when you straddle the line for us again?

A: I'll do my best. (laughter)

Q: Welmek, I've got a question that relates back to Scott's question about suicide. If a person is terminally ill and chooses to refuse all medical aid to keep them alive or surgery or like that so that they choose to die without all of the trappings of our medical world, is that considered suicide?

A: I suppose it depends upon your definition. How is it suicide if you consciously realize that your material body will no longer function?

Q: I'm talking about a terminally ill person who is being kept alive either by mechanical means or being kept alive by extensive and painful surgery.

A: And that individual decides not to continue to be "hooked up"?

Q: Right.

A: My answer remains the same.

Q: Can you extend this to abortion?

A: I have indicated before I am not permitted to comment upon such an intense social issue. But I will add, I have very strong opinions.

Q: Which you keep to yourself.

A: And I think you would agree that it is wise that I do.

Q: I think so.

A: I would suggest that you go back in your transcripts and reread what I did say. Draw your conclusions.

Q: Did you get in trouble over that one, Welmek?

A: I was very much on the edge. (laughter)

Q: I knew the minute I read that transcript.

Q: I did too.

Q: You have very strong feelings about such social issues we deal with. Is the reason you're not permitted to divulge your opinions based upon the fact that there's disagreement in your ranks?

A: No, there is no disagreement whatsoever. It is simply a matter that something as important as this must be decided by the humans of the planet and should not be influenced overly so by myself or anyone like me. Actually, I have said probably more than I should early on in the transmissions about my feelings; but I believe that it was broad enough not to clearly indicate what course of action I would recommend.

Q: I suppose this is the case for all social and political issues that we have to deal with, right?

A: Yes.

Q: Are there any visitors now clamoring to speak as we had with Andrea the other night?

A: That would be an understatement. (laughter)

Q: Can you tell us how many there are?

A: I don't have an exact account. I would estimate somewhere over 2,000. (group exclamations, laughter)

Q: Is Raymon here? Could he be allowed to speak?

Q: Who's he?

Q: The Bloomington teacher.

A: One moment.

RAYMON: Good evening. This is Raymon. I am pleased to be able to engage in conversation with mortals. As you know I have an assignment. I am working with individuals. It will be a short time before we will engage in open communication. I wish to send a message to David to engage those who are serious about the teacher mission in the area to begin meeting, to discuss what Welmek has said. Bring your tape recording device and we will see what happens. I would also say to you that I would like very much for you and those who are serious about this to establish a private session with one of the speakers in Indianapolis and I will speak through them directly to you on a more personal level. As to the group in general, I cannot tell you how proud I am of you. You send forth much good energy and love. I would encourage you not to be discouraged when you realize your shortcomings. Simply accept them for what they are. Look at them as the challenges that Welmek talked about. Take each day as a new opportunity to get just a little closer to the Father and a little closer in your understanding and love for your brothers and sisters. If each day you inch your way toward this goal, in time you will succeed.

CURTIS: Greetings. My name is Curtis. I am the teacher assigned for Maryland. I am looking forward to working with the members of this area. I have only been on this planet for four of your months. I have much to learn from the other teachers who have been here longer, yet I am excited. I see opportunity to advance the human race, and I assure you we will succeed.

I will also tell you that it has been permitted for me to come back and address this group, to moderate, if you will. I look forward to this. It will give me much training and preparation for my group. Thank you for this opportunity to speak. I bring you the love from all who hail from my constellation.

WELMEK: This is Welmek. I wish to give you two additional teacher assignments that have been requested. For the Oregon group, your teacher is Ambraisa, A-M-B-R-A-I-S-A. She is a beautiful daughter of the Father.

For the Cincinnati area, this was already known and this is why I now have the name. This teacher is Tarkas, T-A-R-K-A-S. He hails from Edentia and looks forward also to engaging the mortals of this area.

Q: Welmek, is Daniel around?

A: No. But, we have agreed upon a time for him to present a lesson.

Q: All right!

Q: Are we able, or are we allowed to request certain other teachers like in private sessions or group sessions?

A: For the most part, no. I should say, you can request, but it won't be given. (laughter) The reason for this, you must understand, is not that any teacher would not be honored to speak to any one of you; but we do have many assignments. There is much work to be done and we are coordinated by our supervisor. It simply cannot be as you would wish it always.

Q: Welmek, when is the session that Daniel will present?

A: Soon....(laughter)

Q: I didn't think you'd tell us, Welmek.

A; It will be a pleasant surprise.

Q: I'm impatient, Welmek. I want him to come sooner.

Closing

A: It is time to adjourn our meeting. I allowed many questions tonight that I would not normally have responded to. It seemed appropriate. This is one of those sessions where we get to know each other a little more and I can share with you some of what we are engaged in.

Next week we will be back on track with our lessons. I am excited and I hope you are too. This, I hope, will prove very helpful to each of you in understanding, or I should say, feeling God's love.

Until next week, go about each day looking within yourself and making sure that you do what you can to attune yourself to the Father as well as opportunities to serve your brothers and sisters. Read your text. This is not being done as much as I wish it to be. I will never force you to do anything. It is truly your own choice. But, if you say that you want the things that you do, then how is it that you will get them unless you go about doing the things that we ask you to do. We hear your requests, we give you the guidance; but we cannot do it for you.

I love all of you. This should be an eventful week coming for us, and I will share some of it with you next week. Until then, go in peace. Good night

GROUP: Good night, Welmek.