1993-01-15-Materialization Subject

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Topic: Materialization Subject

Group: Corvallis TeaM

Facilitators

Teacher: LinEl

TR: Mark

Session

Opening

LinEL: Greetings. This is LinEL. I am glad that you all could make it tonight. I have missed our last few meetings. I do enjoy all of your company. I am pleased that you have chosen to read the papers concerning the Thought Adjusters. I think that this pursuit, of any, is extremely pertinent to your situation at this time. I and many of my staff members, are fused with our adjusters and would gladly answer any questions that we can concerning this relationship. There is much that is truly left to experience, although I think the exchange would be useful and pleasant. I would like to hear your questions. I am sure you have many. It has been a while.

Dialogue

Thought Adjusters, Communication

Dan: LinEL, if you are fused with your adjuster and all adjusters can communicate, can you then communicate directly with any of our adjusters?

LinEL: This is generally not a practice that we are made aware of. It is true that adjusters and those who work with the adjusters do communicate with each other. We are generally unaware of such communications when they are necessary.

Dan: What does the adjuster gain in gaining personality, upon fusion with us?

LinEL: You ask a vast question, for what they gain is as great as what you gain. This is truly a wonderful and unique experience, one which, unfortunately, there is little I can tell you about. I am sorry if this frustrates you. It frustrated me when I was looking and forming my initial relationship with my own adjuster. I can say with some certainty that you will find out, and find it the most exceptional experience in your entire life.

Delores: LinEL, I've been thinking of it in terms of smallness and largeness. When they talk about the Father fragment, I think of something small and tiny and yet to communicate or touch the Father, it's more like I am an ant and it's an elephant. The Father is so big and I am so small, and yet it's a small fragment within me!

LinEL: Yet...

Delores: Can you say something there?

LinEL: . ..even this small fragment carries the potential of the universe within it. This is the exceptional mystery and... of the divine relationships. This is, unfortunately, another one of those concept deficiencies..."small-large" does not begin to describe this relationship. Do you have more?

Delores: Something about the finite mind touching the infinite then... so there are limitations to explaining what we're experiencing?

LinEL: If I understand your question correctly, there are limitations in the amount that you are able to perceive at this level. Is this your question?

Delores: Well, that makes sense to me. Yeah. Thank you.

LinEL: Thank you.

Terry: Hi, LinEL. I know there's a lot of other questions I should be asking but there is one I came across in the Urantia book, but I don't know whether you can help me out. I think the best thing for me to do is to read this paragraph and you'll probably know what I'm talking about.

"Your path to paradise is the path of spiritual attainment and the adjuster nature will faithfully unfold the revelation of the spiritual nature of the Universal Father. Beyond the Paradise ascent and into the post-finaliter stages of this eternal career, the adjuster may possibly contact with the onetime human partner in other than spirit ministry." (107:6.3)

Can you tell me what they are trying to tell us there?

LinEL: Terry, I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the subject. Actually, I would like to hear from anyone. I would be curious to find what you think, if you are willing.

Terry: I don't know that I'm capable of projecting that far in the future, but I think that somewhere in the outer realms of space, some way, somehow, the adjuster will work with us on a different level than the... than through the . .. spiritually minister.

LinEL: I ask this question because I have not yet to experience this. This is something that we ask amongst ourselves. I would say that this is a very good question. (Group laughter) Thank you for your answer. (Great group laughter)

Terry: We certainly didn't get much, did we? (More laughter)

LinEL: We are always curious to find out what you think. Your thoughts are not always accessible to us, nor do we intrude where we are not invited. It is also useful for some conjecture within the group. As I have said before, it is useful for us to see your fantasies and your speculation limits. We can do much work within these concepts. It would be like saying we want to know what will not surprise you. It is a good exercise to think of things that are to come even though you do not always know the true outcome or answer.

Dan: Is communication with the Thought adjusters to be rendered more...is it going to be easier than it has before, somehow as a consequence of this Teaching Mission of which you're a part?

LinEL: We are acting as your guides, pointing you towards this relationship. I would say that it will not be easier, although your focus on spiritual matters will make it easier for you to contact your adjuster and for your adjuster to contact you. I would speculate that many of you did not spend two of your hours a week sitting discussing matters such as this. Even these two hours are a great improvement. It will not be instant, but will be steady. Is there more I can say to you?

Dan: Yes. (Long pause.) (Laughter)

LinEL: What more would you like to hear?

Thea: Everything!

LinEL: That would take more time than we have tonight. (more laughter)

Language

Dan: How does one say hello in the language we'll next speak?

LinEL: If we could begin to teach you, and there has been speculation at doing this at a much later date, things...communication between us would be far easier. I who do not have a great grasp of your single-action minded language, would find it a great relief. Unfortunately, this is something beyond the limit of your mind at this time. But look forward to being able to express yourself on a multitude of levels within one sentence. I look forward to speaking with you in this language.

Dan: Single action mind... Can you say more.. about our language?

LinEL: Your language on this planet has evolved from doing, describing, and acting. There is little vocabulary to describe relationship, to describe spiritual concepts such as love, such as reality, and concept. I find it somewhat atrocious that you have only these three words to describe what is basically the entire universe. Does this begin to give you the idea of what I speak of?

Dan: Yeah.

Tom: In the Urantia book it says that the thought adjuster is more concerned about our personality in the next level than it is here and yet in the same paragraph or sentence, it says that the thought adjuster tries to make our life challenging so that we make the difficult decisions.

LinEL: This apparent contradiction is quite amusing, considering what we just discussed. This is a problem with language. Continue.

Tom: Well, I was going to ask what are some examples of the Thought Adjuster making our life challenging? Like what...do they...in what way and how...for instance?

LinEL: I would assume that you find your presence and participation in this mission a challenge. If your Thought Adjuster was not present in your life, you would be reduced to material animal-comfort concerns. Every aspect of your life that you find difficult -- relationship difficulties, dealing with unfelt pasts- things in your past that you never experienced emotion over, challenges that you experience in dealing with people on a daily basis-- these are some examples of how your adjuster makes your life challenging. This process strengthens you, exercises your will, gives you an opportunity to make spiritually rich choices. We only begin to comprehend how this is accomplished. It is a mystery that we, too, experience. I find myself here on this planet participating in this same mission. I too find this challenging. This is an example of how my adjuster causes me to grow. Does this begin to answer your question?

Tom: Yes, thanks.

LinEL: Thank you, Tom.

Tom: Oh there's more! (Laughter)

LinEL: Continue.

Tom: Do you get a sense of the questions we're going to ask before we ask them, or do we have to verbalize them?

LinEL: I have a vague intuition as to the nature of your question. This is not a direct contact with you, it is more an expectation of the kinds of questions that you would ask at this level. We do much preparation to prepare and anticipate for such questions. I, however, enjoy the group experience that verbalizing these questions . .. enhances/participates. Is there more?

Tom: I probably know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway.

LinEL: I enjoy hearing all of your questions.

Materialization

Tom: April 25 was given as the date the Melchizedeks were going to personalize in Chicago. Is there any information you can give us, because some of the groups around the country have talked about representatives from each group that can make it, to be there, and I would like to make plans to be there, so if there is any information that you can share with us...

Dan: Tickets are cheaper more than two weeks in advance...

Tom: Yeah...and there's no fandor...what were those birds? Fandors? There are no fandors around anymore...(laughter)

LinEL: Tom, I do have something to say on this subject, in general. There will be many things, many spectacular events that will be taking place in many groups. There will be as many special and wonderful experiences take place within this group. Some of these events will be attempted, some will fail, some are the wishful thinking of those who would seek events, rather than the inner event that we are actually here to sponsor. I would recommend that you choose wisely. Listen with your truth-sense for, it will not let you down. I would think that any trip to commune with others that participate in this mission would not be a waste of time. Do not be disappointed, however, if the event does not occur, for there are many things that are to be . .. cemented. Does this help in your decision making process?

Tom: Thanks, yes.

Nancy: I read in the Welmek papers about materialization and the concerns that the teachers have about materializing, and the reasons that they plan to materialize and I, as a human, have concerns about setting dates for things that may not happen because of our status as agondonters...It is really hard for a lot of us to have those kinds of expectations set up for us and then have it not happen and I assume that you probably talk about this but I wonder if you could tell me about that?

LinEL: It is wise to make careful choices when dates are concerned. We do not tend to make these types of predictions for we are sometimes as in the dark as you are. I would say a few words, though, on the rumors of our materialization. This would occur at a much later period in this mission. It would require that each of you be aware of, and in touch with, your personal teachers. There are changes that occur when this contact is maintained that would make it more possible for you to see us, if we did materialize. "Materialize" is an insufficient word to describe the process. I cannot find a more suitable one. Does this begin to answer some of your concerns?

Nancy: Yes, thank you.

Inner Life, Celestial Contact

Barbara: It's really nice to be back with the group again. I feel like I've been gone for an awfully long time and I have some questions that have to do with the Thought Adjuster and the Father, our relationship with . ..each person's relationship with those beings, and some confusion that I have being rather new to the book, and new to a lot of the experiences and concepts that we talk about here. Specifically, when I read about and hear about seeking the Father in the silence, communicating with my Thought Adjuster, communicating with my personal teacher, or you, on occasion, I begin to get a little bit overwhelmed with the number of personalities I am supposed to be keeping straight and how the communication with each of these kinds of beings takes place. And so I think my first question is, is there a real delineation between how one seeks the Father and communes with one's Thought Adjuster... is there a big difference there, or is it kind of one and the same?

LinEL: In your present state I would make no distinction. However, what you are experiencing in your overwhelmed confusion is something that many of you struggle with. It is much like meeting a room of new people and feeling unworthy that you do not know each of them fully at your first meeting. These are relationships that you develop, with us, with the Father, with your adjuster. It takes much time, much experimentation, and there will be mistakes and error in your pursuit. Treat each of these celestial entities as separate beings. Find things that you feel you have in common with each. Each of them has attributes that are unique to themselves. If one does not...if you do not relate to one, do not feel guilty, for things that are to come will bring this relation into focus. It is like picking up a book, very much like each of you has picked up the Urantia book since this mission has started, and find something that you did not see before. This is very much like these relationships you seek. Not all will be equal at first, but all will be full and rich in time.

Barbara: Thank you. I have a question about angels. My understanding is that angels are assigned in pairs to individuals and what I am interested in knowing is that at your stage, do you know each other's angels? Can you talk to them too, as separate entities? Can you talk to ours, if we have them? And if you can, would you be ever so kind as to thank them for getting me to Corvallis without crashing my truck? (Laughter)

LinEL: I think that your angels are quite aware of your thanks. I would encourage you to begin to develop relationships with them, also. I know that this is somewhat of a full plate, (laughter) but a thought once in a while will bring you closer and to greater appreciation of what these beings give you. Yes, we do carry on a meaningful and rich relationship with many of our own angels. The relationship does change over time, but we continue as every relationship does, to grow and to enhance one another. Does this answer your question?

Barbara: Yes, it does. I have one more. I wonder if you could just comment on our end of the relationships, what it means to you as teachers, what it means to our adjusters and other celestial beings, for us to take an active part in the relationship. Sometimes I think we tend to wonder what's in it for you, as it were, to be involved with a bunch of kindergarten kids?

LinEL: We think of you as beings becoming. It is a great pleasure and honor to guide parts of the Supreme into actualizing. I look upon this time very much like you would look upon a piece of art developing/becoming. We do not think of you as primitive underlings but as brothers and sisters only a small step behind us. To be associated with you enriches our lives, very much like our association with you enriches yours. This is a great honor, a great pleasure. I thoroughly enjoy my work here.

Katie: LinEL, on the subject of getting more in touch with our Thought Adjusters and eventually fusing with our thought adjusters. Since the Thought Adjuster is a fragment of God, would it be safe to say that, as we approach this and as we fuse that we... take on the perspective of God more and more?

LinEL: I would think that this would be quite a daunting undertaking. Perhaps, trying this piece by piece, in small parts of your life, when you look at another, think: I would like to love this person like the Father loves me. This exercise strengthens your contact with the Father, strengthens your contact with the other person, and allows your adjuster to work more fully within you. When you allow prejudice and judgement to cloud your mind, this inhibits the adjusters' work greatly. If you would try this "Father-sight" in small quantities, I think that you will find it quite useful. I would encourage you to do so.

Perfection

Katie: OK. That brings me to another question. There has been a lot of confusion for me around the line that is repeated throughout the Urantia book, the injunction to be perfect, even as the Father in heaven is perfect. At times, it seems to me that this is something that will be attained in the vast future and at other times it seems to me that it can only happen in the present moment. Tying that into what I was just talking about, it seemed to me that from the perspective of the Father, everything is perfect now, and the injunction to me, be ye perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect, seems to me to be to approach taking that perspective that the Father has, and as you mentioned, looking at others the way that God looks at them, without judgment, that they are already perfect as they are. Could you address this subject?

LinEL: I would be curious to know what about this concept you feel insecure about, if you would?

Katie: Insecure?

LinEL? You feel that this is an invalid train of thought?

Katie: Which? What I'm saying is there seems to be conflicting messages in the Urantia book, as to whether this is something that we are to strive towards becoming, or whether this is something that can only be grasped in the present.

LinEL: I can answer part of your question. You have stumbled upon a very wide and deep truth. This is a problem/conflict in your life at this time because you are tied to animal origins. Your soul, your becoming person, does exist in eternity at this time. You and your Thought Adjuster are together now. The willingness and forward stepping that you take insures that you will achieve perfection. (Long pause) I am experiencing another language difficulty. This is a subject I would enjoy speaking on at great length. It is frustrating to me to have to sum up all in several sentences. I find myself somewhat at a loss for words. (Laughter) This is a very valid concept. I would encourage you to pursue it as far as you feel comfortable. I would encourage you to talk with your own teacher who is very excited to speak with you on these matters. I hope that this serves as encouragement and I did not intrude where not invited.

Katie: No. Not at all. I am not sure you cleared up anything for me, however and I would certainly like to hear you speak on the subject at length sometime, myself.

LinEL: I would enjoy this very much and will add it to my agenda of formal teachings that we will begin soon. Thank you for your insight.

Jeanette: I'd like to mention my thoughts on the subject and maybe you could tell me if it is on base. I see that the path we take, the choices that we make, are perfect choices in the sense that they are the choices we need to make for the growth we need, for the path that we need to go. And in this process, we are growing and becoming in the image of God, more and more perfect. Does that sound like a concept that has any truth to it?

LinEL: This reflects the acknowledgment that you all are guided by a perfect force. This is a piece of the truth that makes each moment as perfect as it can be and therefore perfect in its essence. Does this reflect your question?

Jeanette: I think so. I think we are saying the same thing.

LinEL: Yes.

Jeanette: I also have one more question. It regards intuition, intuitive insight, can you tell us where that hails from?

LinEL: Intuition is partly a remnant of animal instinct and recognition of human habits and patterns. It is also, in part, the subtle pushings and leadings of your inner adjuster. The mix of the two often leads humans to inconsistent conclusions as to the origin of this function.

Jeanette: Is there any way we can tell which source, what the source is? Which direction?

LinEL: I would encourage you to look to the fruits of following these intuitions. If they lead you to greater spiritual growth, I would say that it was safe to assume this was the leading of your adjuster. If...(tape reversed)

Thea: Hi, LinEL. It's great for me to be with the group again but it's also been the one blessing in a way of my being ill is that it is really enjoyable to be able to talk to you in this manner, not to belittle talking to you personally, but it's exciting to hear how "LinEL" you are , whether you're talking to me, or through Mark, and I really enjoy it. I have two questions. The first one is, not exactly a question, when I spoke with you in a personal session with Mark, you referred to . .. when we discussed things about appearances, you referred to trying all kinds of different manifestations of different things to different groups as being part of the experiments that are going on in this mission. And you referred to what happened with the music when I transmitted Michael's message. I was wondering whether you would like to comment on that to the larger group.

LinEL: Thank you for bringing this to attention. We, and others whom we work, with try at times to experiment with different forms of perception. When Michael's message was transmitted to the group, some did hear music. This was an expanded sense of perception, a wider reception to the multiple levels that communication can take. This is what I spoke of when I answered Dan's question. This is something that we will try from time to time, and I would encourage you to share even the most insignificant seeming experience that you have. All of these experiences shared will be useful to each.

Healing

Thea: My second question is also based on a speculation I have . ..when I watch myself and the rest of us in the group of this Teaching Mission and I think about it being the beginning of our mansion world lives, it occurs to me that in the process of going through this, we are pretty much going to be faced with dealing with every hang-up we ever had, since from my understanding of the Urantia book, that is kind of what the mansion worlds are about, refining all the last rough edges. Is this true?

LinEL: This is a by product and I would say purpose...sub- purpose...of this mission. For you each to contact your adjuster and to have a pure communion with the Father, it requires that you be in a state of clean honesty. By this I mean that all the effects and pains and unresolved problems of your lives will start rising to the tops of your minds. This is something that some of you experience in your quiet times. When you find yourself weeping for seemingly no reason, I would encourage you to hold your hand out to the Father and to give these feelings over to his care. This will start a positive process of healing and opening channels to enhance your happiness.

Thea: Are our personal teachers able to help us also with these things, and I presume this is not going to happen overnight.

LinEL: Overnight would be a wonderful thing, although, unfortunately, this is not the way of the universe. Your personal teachers will be of great service to you because they have been selected for you. They have things, experiences, concepts, in common with you. They may share interests or personality types with you. If you allow it, they will be of great use to you in this search.

Thea: I just want to thank you LinEL and all of the personal teachers who are here and all of the staff that is with our group. I just want to thank you again for being here and everything that you're doing for us. I really appreciate it.

LinEL: Thank you.

Alan: Hi, LinEL. I'm not exactly sure how to phrase my question...As I grew up I was often taught not to do the best that I could do, and some of the impression I get as I am trying to be perfect as the Father would have me be perfect, is to do the best in what ever I attempt, and sometimes I find it real difficult because like I say, I was taught not to do that. I guess part of what I'm wondering, is part of the work I have to do to confront some of those issues and to work through to where I , you know, can do my best?

LinEL: Keep in mind that the best is not a place of arrival, but the process of day to day striving. The best today is the best. The best tomorrow is the best. Do not cause yourself undo stress and anxiety of not achieving perfection tomorrow. As this concept was introduced earlier, you are being perfect in your willingness to try to be perfect. Please be happy/secure in this process of becoming and being. Does this answer part of your question.

Alan: Yes. Another part is, then, are you saying that comparing/ doing comparisons is not helpful?

LinEL: That is not helpful, when comparing the positive of today with the negative of yesterday and the potential negative of tomorrow. Look instead to the positive changes that have occurred. Do not be over concerned with the negative. Focusing on what you could do differently is useful only in as far as acknowledging that you want to do something different. It is far more useful and encouraging to yourself to look at the positive, and I would say to not even compare the positives, for this will set up an expectation that the next positive must be greater than the sum of the last two positives. Is this clear to you?

Alan: Yes, thank you. Thank you very much.

LinEL: I know that the execution of these concepts is sometimes very difficult. It is acceptable to admit to yourself and to the Father that you do not know how to accomplish such things. You will receive the help that you need.

Alan: Thank you.

Emotion

Delores: LinEL, about emotions rising, in the quiet time or any other time, are we humans affected by the emotions of each other? If my sister's having a hard time and I get real upset am I being infected, like a virus because of her emotions, or are we closed units, I know we're not completely closed units, but are some of the emotions that we feel not ours?

LinEL: All of your emotions that you feel are yours. When you feel the emotions of others, this is often an over-exaggerated form of empathy. This is something that you are ill-trained on this planet to deal with/ make distinctions on. It is a useful practice to look at the source of each emotion, decide from where it came and to who it belongs. If it is your sister's emotion, allow yourself to empathize but to not feel her anxiety. It is not useful for you to try and experience other's emotions. It is useful, however, to recognize that each of you shares common emotional responses and that you are not alone.

Jesus

Terry: LinEL, Jesus, while he was teaching his apostles...Thomas asked him one time to show him the Father so they would know him and Jesus asked them: what? I've been with you this long and you don't know the Father yet? It caused me to do some thinking on my own. And I don't know whether my concepts are in order but in thinking things through, I think perhaps I think perhaps Jesus was telling them that he came to this world and revealed to mankind the personality of the Father, in his loving attributes, in his patience and in enlightenment of the people Jesus lived with. In other words, Jesus showed forth the personality of the Father while he was here. Is that correct?

LinEL: You are correct in your thinking. I would like to expand on that thought. Each of you when being true to yourselves and your spiritual path, are capable of showing the essence of the Father to one another. This is not grand thinking, it is a spiritual reality. The love of the Father flows through each one of you when you allow it. This is a reflection of the face of the Father. This is something that you can bring to your life and bring to others. (Pause) Does this serve to complicate your train of thought?

Terry: It doesn't take much to do that. Carrying this a little further, that then should give us the incentive to master these attributes that Jesus revealed of what the Father is. I mean, in mastering these attributes, it would make us more God-like and I know it's not an easy task but even so, as we master these attributes, that carry us to the perfection that the Father challenges us with doing?

LinEL: The attempt to master these attributes brings you steps closer to this perfection that you seek. I encourage you to think as he does, act as he does, to emulate his life in an educational . .. method. This will serve to open many possibilities to you, in your daily lives and in your relationships. And I would repeat something of what I said to Alan: best today is best today. An attempt to master these attributes is all that is required of you. Does this help?

Terry: Yes.

Dan: I was very gratified to hear you twice refer to your own curiosity tonight, LinEL. It makes me feel a little bit better with what I am about to say, although as I've been sitting here I've been thinking we're supposed to ask something that's of some spiritual significance. I don't know what that means. Can you tell us how we're supposed to know what is of spiritual significance and what isn't, in our lives? And then I'll get to my curiosity questions.

LinEL: What is of spiritual significance? Anything that brings you closer to the Father in your heart and in your understanding is of spiritual significance. When you feel you are closer on a personal level with the Father, this is significant. It is, with many of your religious upbringings, sometimes difficult to appreciate the true essence of the Father, which is personal to you. Does this.... begin... to help?

Dan: You're getting to know me better so now you say does this help... does this begin to help. That's good. Beginning is easier for me, yeah.

LinEL: Beginnings are important.

Experience

Dan: I wonder if you could help me affirm, dispel or clarify what is to me frankly, my Casper the ghost theory of how you're here. I'm very curious whether you're invisibly inhabiting the same space we are, or not. I think for example of that one passage in the Urantia Book, in which I believe it was a Divine Counselor, referring to the building in Chicago in which he stood as not really being real. Where was he standing, then? Are you responsive to gravity? When Melchizedek in one of the papers was reminiscing, actually in prospect of his re-materialization, he said some very intriguing things, he would like to...remember this everybody?...hear the dogs, feel the heat, see the stars? You don't know? You don't...

LinEL: We do not experience your world in a material sense. This is to my disappointment. We do, however, experience your world through your perceptions as you allow us. As you develop your relationship with your own teacher, you allow them to experience your world through your eyes. This is something that each of us teachers share with each other on many occasions. You live on a beautiful planet. You are beautiful people. We enjoy the vicarious experience of your lives. Although we do not exist in the place, we do exist near it. There are echoes or shadows in our realm of your world. This is all I can say on this.

Cindi: How different was your own world, your physical planet. Was it fairly similar, or very different? Or is that an answerable question?

LinEL: I would very much like to answer that question. In allowing yourselves to be known to me, I would share some of who I am with you, on occasion. My world was very different from yours. In government, in society, it was as...I am surprised to find Thea and Mark picking up impressions of where I originated from...which is an interesting concept to me that we carry elements of our origins all through our universe careers. My planet was very arid, very warm, although we did not perceive it so. In contrast, I see that it is very desert-like. Our customs and art/ architecture/ structures were simple, more simple than yours. Does this serve to satisfy your curiosity?

Cindi: Yes, a little.

LinEL: I would be pleased to share more with you as our time moves on. Cindi: Good. Thank you. LinEL: Thank you.

Cindi: The other question that came up was, you called our planet beautiful, and I agree, it is, incredibly beautiful, but I've always imagined that all the planets are, maybe in different ways, but that all the inhabited planets would be beautiful.

LinEL: Each planet is beautiful, is beautiful beyond imagining. However, when you experience new forms of beauty you always compare them to the ones that you know of. In this respect, I find your planet perhaps more beautiful than my own but this is a inconsistency of mine.

Cindi: Another question that had occurred to me is, are you able....between teachers or beings of your own realm...are you able to touch each other as we can touch each other and hug each other. Is your material.. is your level...feel the same as ours?

LinEL: We do possess solid material bodies much as yours, although different. We are able to embrace one another and share physical affection much as you do.

Cindi: Good. (Group laughter and clapping)

LinEL: I look forward to the day that we may all embrace.

Cindi: We all do. Dan: To go back to those stars, LinEL. If you don't see them...I mean, I always had the idea that all spiritual beings were inhabited in...lived on places, actual physical spheres of one level of physicality or the next. I always thought the stars out there that we're seeing are the same stars everybody else was seeing and that was kind of the intriguing thing to me. Um, is that not the case?

LinEL: We do see the same universe, although we see more than you. In this respect, I could say that we see more of your own world than you do in some respects although nothing can replace material experience from your place of origin. This mission pursues to build your faith because when Michael does appear he will be seen through the eyes of faith. This is vaguely similar to this concept of our-world/your-world that you try to perceive. Does this help?

Dan: Yeah. Thank you.

Perfection

Barbara: I feel some need to get back to the question of perfection. It seems to me that it's one of those kinds of concepts that we have a really hard time grasping and grappling with and I wonder if some of the difficulty with interpreting passages in the book have to do with our imperfect grasp of such a concept as "perfect". And that gets a little muddy too. But there is another thing that I am trying to get at in my head about our perceptions, and how the perception of something, like a new insight, will change that concept for you, and I'm using you in a pretty universal sense here, forever. For instance, my idea of what perfection is today may be completely different, because of some insight that I will gain tomorrow, from my perception of what that concept will be tomorrow. I should have probably sat down and written this one out before I tried asking a question about it. . (questioner laughs)...I'm looking at Terry...It reminds me a little bit of this fellow Heisenberg and the notion that even to witness an event changes the event. Oh. I know what that reminds me of, that reminds me, too, of some things I've heard Mark talk about in terms of how objects, even by being together where once they were apart created a new reality and all this is mooshed together with Katie's question about perfection... are..you....(laughter)...do you suppose you could comment on that at all or should I just go home and write it down and bring it next time?

LinEL: It is always useful to hear your unformed thoughts. They often contain more of the true essence of your question. In your pursuit to be perfect, there are often moments where you believe you are experiencing something as perfectly as it can be experienced. You are experiencing the essence of a unique being...which is yourself. You are evolving in your perceptions, you are evolving and growing in your relationship to the universe, beginning to understand what it is to be a citizen. All of these experiences that you speak of are part of growing to be truly perfect. Perfection, very much like "best" is a process. You may at times experience perfect love between yourself and your adjuster, between yourself and the Father. These are the moments and times that you could perceive as truly perfect. As you grow, your experience of that love will broaden and still remain perfect. It is like trying to quantify how beautiful a sunset is. Is the one the day before more beautiful than this one? They are both perfect. Your experience of that beauty is perfect. Do you begin to understand the quandary?

Barbara: I don't have any trouble understanding the quandary, it's understanding the answer to the quandary I have trouble with but as you were talking I realized that one of the other things that I have a difficulty with when it comes to perfection is that the term perfectionist does not...in current usage not very positive. There is a connotation of perfection in our society currently that is negative because in the ways that we that try to express it materially, it is not possible. And sometimes we get caught in these situations where we are expected to be perfect or we expect ourselves to be perfect in material ways and therefore we never succeed. And so when Katie asked the question about perfection I felt some real clear emotional responses to that. And I guess there's...

LinEL: The type of perfectionism that you speak of is truly material in essence. It cannot be attained in the time frame that is given. Therefore it is inherently damaging to those who carry it as a goal. True perfection is the willingness to follow the path of the Father, to become more like him. This involves much uncertainty and often error. This is... it is... an example would be...a flower is perfect in its bloom, but has stages where it is not a flower. We would perceive it as imperfect because it is not the bloom, but it is as we would see an imperfect part of a perfect system, therefore it is perfect...in its essence of becoming.

Barbara: In other words we need to make enough mistakes in order to become perfect.

LinEL: The mistakes are a necessary part of growing to be perfect. Mistakes should not be looked upon as negative but as stepping stones to the next growing/positive/expanding situation. (Pause) I would like to take one more question if there is one. Our time is drawing to a close.

Closing

Marlene: LinEL, I would like to say thank you very much for this evening, I know it's been a long one but it's been a wonderful one for all of us. And I'd also like to thank Mark. He has done a wonderful job tonight. Thanks for being here.

LinEL: Thank you. I have enjoyed our time. We have much to do, much to say, much to talk about together. I look forward to our next meeting with anticipation. I would like, if you are willing, to experiment with our format a bit, as I have tonight. I would be curious and it would be to the benefit of others, for you to answer some of my questions. I think that his will be interesting. Only, feel that this is voluntarily only. We do not wish to pressure any of you into being uncomfortable. We are here to nurture your growth, to guide you into your becoming. Thank you for coming, good evening.

Group response: Good bye/night/evening LinEL. (Applause)