2000-01-06-Knowing

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Topic: Knowing

Group: Butler TeaM

Facilitators

Teacher: Tomas

TR: Gerdean

Session

Dialogue

THOROAH: Tomas, I had a question. I wonder if you might discuss the relative value in understanding something to the actual experiencing of the same?

TOMAS: I will go to the metaphysical appreciation of Oneness in answer to your question, for whereas nothing can take the place of experience, it is also true that many lessons can be learned through the experiences of others, if you allow for the value of their experience to become such a living and integral part of you that you have walked a mile in their moccasins.

It is thus not an intellectual undertaking, but a soul undertaking that you experience your brother's burdens. This is how Jesus does it. Or so I am inclined to believe, based upon what he has done for me and others in sharing the experience in the spirit, in the One Soul experience. Has that been helpful?

THOROAH: Yes, I think so. I would like to take it further but we need to turn the tape.

TOMAS: Very well.

[Tape turned]

Efficiency is indicated in your attitudes in this room as compared to your attitudes in the parlor. Interesting observation. I'm interested also in continuing our discussion and I was poised to hear what Thoroah was going to say next, and so, what is it?

THOROAH: Thank you, Tomas. On this subject of experience and understanding the relative value, the reason I ask is that I wrote down the other day that "my religion is knowing, and knowing that I know is my religious experience" and I just wrote that down for whatever reason and then explored what I had written, understanding that, yes, I have a religion, I am religious, I suppose, in my approach to knowing things. And I don't mean just facts, but there are things that come in the way of knowing that hit me like a bolt of lightning sometimes. Mini bolts. Just little bolts of lightning thank goodness, but something will be made so obvious to me that I experience it, in that sense. It's like I DO experience it, only in a different way than maybe what I'm thinking the experience has to be.

You talked about, before, as we grow our troubles will not go away but our troubles might not be as trepidatious (?) as we grow, and that's why I asked. I have these things that happen in my mind, it seems, that seem to effect my whole being.

TOMAS: Indeed, you are experiencing revelation, and inasmuch as you are a professed religionist and a religionist actually, your knowledge is beyond the academic, but is the intrinsic, the existential. You know that you know, and thus you experience that reality which is your spiritual experience. Your jottings are indicative of one who has given himself over to the leadings of divinity, for one to say "my religion is knowledge" could readily be misconstrued to mean "book lore" or material knowledge, but your apparent appreciation for the morontial interpretation of "knowing" aligns you with the true religionist. When we discuss it, we discuss the reality of the individual as often separate from what it's belief system is, or what it's behavior patterns are; therefore, the tendency to pigeon-hole personalities by their creed or race or occupation is erroneous, for you are not always what you do. Experience of this sort, Thoroah, is existential, inasmuch as it is a contact of a sort with another reality, a greater reality than the material mind mold will allow.

You are seeing with eyes to see, and this gives rise to a spiritual experience, augmenting who you are and what you know then becomes what you know indelibly in your soul, and that which you express to others in words as to what that meant or what that means, for when you bring your experience down into words that can be understood by the human race, you are perforce speaking in a material language and thus the interpretation becomes a critical issue.

It is also why, when you discuss what you know, it is always most effective when you LIVE what you know. For that way you have been able to side-step the quagmire of intellectualization and explanation of your experiences, for a reflection of the divine as it expresses itself through your experiences. Yes.

THOROAH: When you say "live it" I think we all understand on one level what that means, as far as living what we know. Also, in another level of living what we know, if indeed something that you discover in the ethereal, in the dimensional quality, as being a truth, and that truth affects how you even begin to live from that point on, then it's taking part in the experience in that fashion.

TOMAS: Indeed it is, and it is affecting, then, your behavior as a result of your ethics and morals based upon your religious experience. You then begin to manifest this reality through your behaviors in your dealings with your fellows "as you pass by".

THOROAH: Thank you. That helps very much.

TOMAS: You are welcome. It is simplified in the discussion about how it is that children learn from what their parents do, not what they say. And an astute child will know when they are being glossed over (deceived) by a parental machination. When you deal with your children in the spirit, when they present themselves to you for your guidance as an enlightened son of God, portray for them the highest perception of reality you are possible of conveying, because it is "feeding his sheep" affecting your very world.

I am finding it very difficult to slouch in this office chair.

THOROAH: I heard a description the other night. It might have been Machiventa, who said that Jesus walked through this life with such dignity that anyone who passed by him noticed it, and I caught just a glimpse of him walking, and that dignity was a radiation of some sort in my sight, but I felt what it might be like to, at least for that second, present oneself with that kind of dignity, that I hope that icon, that vision stays in my mind so that I can come as close as possible.

TOMAS: I would like to see you grow into your shoes also, my son, and with this fleeting vision of how the Master portrayed himself as an inspiration, trust that his work with you will enable you to find in him an example you can live up to. You are not a Creator Son, perhaps, but you are a son none-the-less, and "He who has seen me has seen the Father" IF it is the Father that you are reflecting.

It is possible for you to live up to your own goal here, and it is by such fleeting glimpses of inspiration that you continue to strive and aspire to be more godlike. Where do you think this comes from? It comes from your Indwelling Adjuster seeking oneness with your personality.

We care deeply for each of you and all of you, and see your struggles in growing and are inspired by your tenacity to the Father. It is amusing and endearing and ennobling observing you.

THOROAH: That's a pep talk. Thank you.

TOMAS: You have earned it.

THOROAH: Thank you. Sometimes it's difficult to know what we have earned and sometimes I just try not to even worry about what I've earned.

TOMAS: It is just as well.

THOROAH: I think so. That's something else I just discovered, Tomas. In the human language, when I affirm something, I say, "I think so!" But in some people's minds that might indicate that I have doubt.

TOMAS: Indeed. And yet, "I think, therefore I am." It is, again, a reflection on what you know, how you utilize your mind, what goes on in the adjusting of your thoughts. "I know that I know." I think.

THOROAH: I love your perspective, Tomas. Thank you.

Closing

TOMAS: I feel enlivened and invigorated and I feel that you each have relieved yourselves of a burden of some sort, and it may have only to do with our camaraderie and that you have relaxed in my presence, but for whatever reason, it would appear from here, your minds are at relative peace and your spirits are whole and happy. Give yourself the rest of the night off.

THOROAH: Will do.

TOMAS: I'll see you next week.

THOROAH: Thank you, Tomas.

TOMAS: Farewell.