2015-12-14-New Era Conversations 59
- 1 Heading
- 2 Facilitators
- 3 Session
Topic: Governance et al
Group: N. Colorado TeaM
TR: Daniel Raphael
- Team Members: Roxanne Andrews, Michael McCray, and a Student
MACHIVENTA: Good morning, this is Machiventa Melchizedek and I am pleased to be here with you.
We are open for questions, if you have any.
- Can empathy and compassion be overdone?
Roxie: On the subject of empathy and compassion, is there a point at which they can be overdone? I speak of infants who are born with terrible birth deformities that require surgery after surgery for years and still do not have a good quality of life. Or people that keep an injured pet alive even though they have been hurt very badly. The reason I ask this question is because of the comment about “dispatching” the severely mentally ill or criminals seems to be a difficult concept for mortals to handle. Could you speak to this, please?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, I would be glad to, and your question is an important one. Empathy and compassion become overdone when it is to serve and assuage the emotional guilt or emotional anxiety of the individual who is responding to that difficult situation. That is the basic answer to your question. The greater substance of our response is that empathy and compassion are usually personal, and this is a good place to start when you think of a socially sustainable society, particularly for future generations. Rarely, do mortals in their daily lives make decisions with the awareness that their decisions will have an impact, or will directly or indirectly affect future generations.
It is important that when societies begin to accept the values of social sustainability that they also accept the responsibilities of social sustainability. Your citizens will begin to appreciate that there are decisions that help develop the social evolution of their society, their communities, their families and individuals. There are decisions which have neither a positive or negative effect, and that they will also realize that there are individuals who make decisions that are detrimental to society, particularly those who are social predators, who cause great injury to individuals, to groups and to society. One of the major responsibilities of a society, state or community that has accepted the responsibilities of moving toward social sustainability is to assist and support individuals to make contributions to the sustainability of themselves, families and communities. The other is to show the way to live in a neutral manor, which has no detrimental effect to anyone, either positive or negative. Societies have a very serious responsibility to act in behalf of all the people, to make moral decisions that would be unethical and immoral if they were made by an individual.
Societies, which are usually represented by their governments, have the responsibility to remove individuals who are detrimental and who are social predators of that society. The emphasis is on forward movement, maturity and evolution of societies and communities, and the environment in which families live. When families are under threat of physical harm, financial harm and other acts of predation, then it halts the growth and maturity of society. People and societies do not mature when they live in fear. This is very evident as you are seeing in your world situation, whether it is in the United States, or Africa, or in the Middle East—or other places. People do not grow, prosper, thrive, mature, and develop their innate potential when they live in fear.
Society, i.e., has a responsibility to remove individuals who have a proven record of being detrimental and harmful to society. I will not go into the categories of harmful predation, but some of them exist within family structures and within schools and elsewhere. The response of society may seem extremely severe, but we, on the other hand, appreciate that a world such as Urantia is an evolving social structure. Urantia is a social organism that must take care of itself. When you look at your world in this regard, then you realize how primitive the world you live in truly is. It is not a sad situation or a good situation; it is simply a situation that needs forethought and conscious deliberation and the willingness to take social action to protect future generations of its citizens.
- Question on gay issues to be covered in a future session
Roxie: Thank you. I also have three questions sent in by our readers. The first one says, “I am very thankful for your support to present my questions to the NEC. This time we had a little discussion at our forum, the “Teaching Mission in Russia,” to prepare the questions. One reader worried about the gay movement that is growing very fast in the West and especially its lobbying in power structures at the legislative level. He says that the elite are the driving force that spins the flywheel of the gay movement. His question is: What are the consequences for each individual and civilization as a whole, potentially dangerous for basic family relations, relations between the sexes, such as the legislative introductions of many states on Urantia, as juvenile justice and legalization of the gay movement?”
MACHIVENTA: The questioner has surely staged his questions very well. I would ask him to break apart that sequence of statements into all the questions that he is curious about. This may end up to be 1, 2 or 3; it could be 9, 10 or 12 questions. We would be glad to entertain those questions, and to assist the questioner. We would ask that he assist us by developing his questions in a way to help our readers understand the situation he is relating to, and how answering the questions will lead to greater clarification for everyone.
- Collapse of previous civilizations
Roxie: I guess we will have to finish up with that question at a later date.
Another “reader is interested in the experience of the previous civilizations in the issue of violation of the principle of achieving the three core values and evolutionary development, deviations from which have led to their collapse. Machiventa, what can you share about it?”
MACHIVENTA: Thank you for your question, first of all; it was a well thought out question. In answering this question, it is not solely the three core values that must be addressed. Heretofore, no nation, no society, no government administration, dynasty or empire has ever begun its existence with an intention, an overtly, consciously developed intention, to become sustainable into the centuries and millennia ahead. Even the United States form of democracy was not formed with an overt conscious intention—the intentions were assumed, which is very dangerous. Strategic intentions that are assumed and not revealed are the playing field for much havoc later on, and disarray of progress. Societies can revisit their beginnings by reviewing or stating overtly what those intentions would be. First, for the United States, the covert intentions were to become a sovereign, independent state; and secondly, to establish democratic form of governance. Those two intentions were assumed. They are most easily identifiable through the history of your nation, for the reasons that they fought the Revolutionary War and began writing the Constitution.
Without an intention for sustainability, there is no way to have a vision, a mission, an operating philosophy, and so on, to guide them towards that goal.
The second major error of all previous societies and civilization, nations and empires, and so on, is that they were not learning organizations. They did not have an institutional way of reviewing their failures and their successes, and discerning the causes of the successes or the failures. You have recent scientists in the last 30 years who have been writing about “Type 2, double loop, learning organizations.” This is a very important part of the sustainability scheme of your nations, societies and cities and communities. If there is no intention for long-term sustainability, and there is no method of learning from experience, then surely failure will overcome even the most fortuitous circumstances to cause societal decline and collapse. This is currently the situation of most evolved, mature democracies in the world today.
You can see in the United States that its early evolutionary form has matured to its greatest design limits, and that it is no longer capable of evolving further. There is a need to review and revisit its origins, and to thoughtfully, conscientiously begin the process of planning a more evolved form of democracy. Further, you will find that when this is done by mature democracies that it will make the path easier for developing emerging democracies to literally skip many decades to become more mature and evolved in their democratic processes.
- Promoting the Correcting Time programs within churches
Roxie: They have one more question: “At the previous session Machiventa told us that it is possible to involve (and to be in) existing organizations to promote the programs of Christ Michael’s Correcting Time. The Russian Orthodox Church is a significant institution whose main purpose of their work is all kinds of help for Christ, by whose name the Church is named. We can assume that many Church leaders know about the current efforts of Christ, and perhaps some of them read these materials. Machiventa, what would you say to those people, the servants of the Lord?”
MACHIVENTA: You have come upon one of the most stalwart, strong bastions of conservative religious and spiritual evolution. It would be a grave mistake to begin your work to change such a religious global organization as that. It begins by individuals; if you are able to have access to any of the leaders in the various echelons of the Church, you are welcome to have personal conversations with them concerning the sustainability and the thriving sustainable existence of the Church by striving to infuse these new concepts of Christ Michael.
We would advise additionally, or first of all, that you begin to infuse these values into the decision-making process of organizations of which you are a member. How many of the organizations that you belong to have a conscious intention that has been overtly written and available to members, to become sustainable into the decades and centuries ahead? You will find that almost none do. It is an assumption that if and when organizations continue doing business as they are doing, that they will continue on indefinitely into the future. This is simply folly, and it is a very juvenile perspective of the survivability of organizations. Organizations that you belong to, you can have a tremendous influence on by instilling in them these simple concepts to include in their operation: One is the intention of becoming sustainable; and the other is to become a learning organization by analyzing the previous experiences, current experiences for successes and failures.
You have begun to thoroughly understand the essence of sustainability; while your species is self-sustaining into the future, societies are not. Societies are dependent upon the operation and sustainability of the organizations that support that society, and of course, the attitudes and behaviors of individuals in those organizations and apart from those organizations in society. There must eventually be an attitude of responsible participation to insure that future generations live as comfortably, or more so, than you do today.
Roxie: Thank you. That’s all the questions I have at the moment.
- Addiction is not a disease
Student: Machiventa, would you please talk to us about, in our society we use the word “addiction,” and it is related as a “disease.” It doesn’t give people any empowerment to help themselves. Would you talk about using a label like that, or any labels?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, I would be glad to; thank you for your question. First of all, addiction is not a disease. It is a complex of behaviors that are repetitive and habitual for the individual. Anger and rage, sex addiction, and so on, are chosen methods of behaving by some individuals that becomes habituated and an addictive source of adrenalin, a natural but destructive “high.” There are chemicals in your culture which cause physical dependence, and some establish psychological dependence, whether they are over-the-counter drugs, or whether they are drugs bought on the street, or whether it is alcohol, which is easily purchased anywhere in the world. These chemicals create an addiction of dependency in the person’s life. Addictions that we are most concerned of are the addictions of choice, whether it is a fetish, whether it is a fear of walking on cracks on the sidewalk, fear of crowds, and so on. Those are learned behaviors; they truly are learned by personal self-reinforcement of the thinking of the individual. That type of thinking can be undone by repetitive, correcting thinking practices, and guidance from coaches to the opposite ends. Some can be assisted through hypnosis and some through alternative psychological therapies. In the end, it is the responsibility of the individual to be aware of their behavior and to be self-observing to realize it is abnormal and counter-productive, and that they have a personal responsibility as caretaker of their life to do something to rehabilitate themselves.
When you heal your life in this manner, you realize that your higher mind, your conscious will-mind is responsible for the care of the body and the conscious mind, and what it thinks and how it thinks. This is a process that will elevate your societies in maturity of your social structures immensely when it becomes widespread. As it is, the number of individuals who are self-observing is very, very small, and others may notice that they have these predilections of behavior and thinking, but they have not come to the conscious awareness that they are responsible to change it. This is another factor of social immaturity on a backward planet.
As you can see from our discussion today, Christ Michael has surely charted out quite a difficult course of rehabilitation for your world, and he is also working on the other worlds that were in quarantine. You are most fortunate that Christ Michael had his 7th bestowal here on this planet as Jesus, and that he has invested heavily in the rehabilitation, reformation of your world co-creatively with you. This is a project that will have immense repercussions for God the Supreme, and for all eras that follow in the Grand Universe. It is a courageous project, one that is not without its own problems, but one where there is progress that is measurable. Our experience here will be of great use in the future. And, yes, we have measured progress on your world even though your world is having great difficulties and millions of people are in immense distress.
How else can we help?
Student: Thank you, Machiventa. So is there anything else we can do to be helping, besides social sustainability?
MACHIVENTA: For people who have addictions?
Student: For our world.
MACHIVENTA: You are being the most influential individual you can be in your situation right now. You are a person of one, who lives in a rather small community, and you have already had more impact and influence on your community than you had in the prior ten years. These small increments of service to others eventually have a cumulative effect that will change the minds and bend the culture of your societies.
- Multiple personalities
Student: I have another question and it has to do with multiple personalities. Is there such a thing as multiple personalities?
MACHIVENTA: Most certainly; it is a very difficult disorder. Do you have further questions you would like to ask concerning this?
Student: Yes, I would like you to, please—if you would—discuss multiple personalities.
MACHIVENTA: I believe we have discussed it before in this forum, and there are notations in prior transcripts about multiple personality disorder. Briefly, it is an individual that has been in different circumstances that cause them to create a new personality to escape their current situations, even if it is in their own mind. Think of it as an alternative to an addiction, where a person does not want to become addicted to heroin and forget about the world around them, but simply withdraws within themselves to create a new reality.
- Creating a mental health system
Student: I have another question about our mental health system. How do we go about creating a mental health system that is socially sustainable?
MACHIVENTA: Surely, the best way would be to recruit professionals who have a spiritual inclination. The great difficulty with changing or moving the culture of the psychotherapeutic culture is difficult as it is so intellectually oriented. Your successors will see in their lifetimes, immense changes in the therapeutic modalities and theories. Your psychotherapeutic culture is in its earliest stages now. There has been an infusion of spiritually oriented individuals who are making great contributions to psychotherapeutic theories. These will eventually reveal the intimate connection between the higher mind, or God presence within each individual, and the individual’s ability capacity to bring peace into their life.
We wish you could be around long enough to see the full turn of events, where your culture begins to recognize that building strong minds and mental health in the character of individuals begins in childhood. It begins even in utero, and even prior to that, that mental stability is often a development of circumstances. Yes, most people are born with a latent capacity for some mental health difficulty, which does not manifest until some traumatic circumstance is greater than that person’s mental/emotional capacity can tolerate. It also speaks to the necessity of having peace in the family, where each has a responsibility to the others and to themselves to assist in the mental social/emotional/spiritual and physical stability of their environment. All these things have an impact and impinge upon the mental stability of individuals. The holistic perspective of mental health will become to be better known to that culture, yet, there is the difficulty of infusing it into family dynamics and education, and in fact, into your educational systems of your culture.
Your question goes to the heart of mental/emotional/social stability of a whole society. Many aspects of mental health are part of a social culture. This has not been thought of before, but it surely is the case. You are beginning to see how damaged and injured soldiers who return from the trauma of war, come back to live lives as broken, disheveled and fractured, and that they impact the same kind of difficulties upon their families of origin, their friendships and their families that they have produced themselves. I thank you for your question, and as you can see, there is easily the capacity to develop 45 questions out of my statement.
- Postponing a question on DNA
Student: Yes, thank you, Machiventa. That was another one of my questions about people who have gone to war and participated in war. How does that affect their DNA?
MACHIVENTA: Let us leave that for another conversation, please.
Mental, physical and spiritual health
Student: All right, then I have another question and it is to do with: If you brought mental health, physical health and spiritual health under one component in social sustainability, would that be a good course to proceed, or should they be separate?
MACHIVENTA: (Laughing.) Most definitely! Yes, there is a holism that must be emphasized with young couples that plan to have children of their own. This is the perfect place to create a holism of good mental health that begins with the parents—at least in their understanding—so that they are able to teach their children and raise their children in this peaceful environment. We do know, however, that there are individuals who were raised in very difficult circumstances, but yet became capable of raising their own children quite admirably, in spite of the difficulties they had in their own childhood.
Student: I don’t know, I might be wrong, but starting out with a socially sustainable system—and I can see combining mental health and physical health without too many people getting upset—but the spiritual health I believe should be part of it, but there is going to be a lot of people who will think that will be a drawback to start with.
MACHIVENTA: You would need to make clear distinction between institutionalized practices of religion and spirituality that espouses peace and tranquility. Surely individuals would want tranquility and peace in their lives, and in their families and for others and must become aware of the practices that can provide those outcomes. Buddhists and Taoists and many others live in peace and see the world in peace, and make decisions that support peace. They understand meditation, tranquility, composure and contemplation, and all those practices that bring about peace. Peace is brought about by decisions of individuals in their lives.
Student: Would you please talk about the effectiveness of hypnosis in mental illness?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, briefly and superficially. Hypnotism is useful for counteracting detrimental behaviors. Hypnosis can create an overlay to mental health issues, but it does not resolve the origins or causes of those mental health issues. It is not advisable to use hypnotic practices to overlay mental health trauma, but to address them more directly. As I said, hypnotic therapy is very useful for adapting detrimental behaviors to those that are positive and constructive, or even to their whole elimination. It has even been useful with some mild addictions, as you may be aware.
- Energies of disempowerment
Student: I’m having a hard time wording this but I’ll try as best I can, the energies of disempowerment that we subconsciously connect with, is there a way we can become aware of them [so] that we do not connect with them?
MACHIVENTA: Please repeat that, more clearly in the beginning?
Student: Energies of disempowerment that we subconsciously connect with: Is there a way we can become aware of them so that we do not connect with them? Does that make sense?
MACHIVENTA: Yes. Again, this will be a superficial answer to a very complex question. The person who is having difficulties in their life would be advised to make prayers or open discussions with their Thought Adjuster, their Guardian Angel, and other spiritual entities of God’s Hierarchy of Light, to assist them in being clear of any thoughts or thought patterns or energies that might be harmful to them. We have found that it is often the case that individuals may not be aware of any difficulties or detrimental dark energies about them, so they do not think much of it, but they take a precautionary foray into this field and request assistance from the seraphim to assist them to be clear of any harmful energies that may be with them. They oftentimes become aware of an improvement in their life, and begin to live consciously in the light, and without having been fully aware beforehand that they were living in the presence of darkness or dark energies. The individuals who have an open mind, who are not boxed in by certain institutional limitations of their thinking are most often helped the greatest by these precautionary actions. Is this clear to you, or not?
- Is spiritual growth possible with dark energies?
Student: Yes, it is in a way. I was thinking in my mind, can a person just grow spiritually in their life, with these dark energies that they might have within them, and not be aware of them? Can they just grow spiritually without dealing with them?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, most definitely. How this comes about is to live in the light; live in peace; to be open and receptive to all good things in your life, and to discard any limitations in your thinking, whether they are negative emotions, negative thoughts and energies of hostility, regret, worry and anxiety in your mind. Living in the moment is surely the way to live in the presence of Christ Michael’s Light in your life and in your mind. You can literally eliminate the darkness by solely living in the light. Your focus is on doing good; thinking good; speaking good and living in the moment. Thank you for your question.
Student: Thank you! The reason I was thinking this is because like the empowerment of the mind, this happened to me personally: I grew up not knowing that people had back problems. It wasn't until I got married that I became aware of back problems as my husband had some. And that is what I was thinking about. And so that was a way to avoid back problems. It’s been so great with what you just said, because I guess that you can just go along through life without accepting any of these things. If they don’t exist, they don’t exist for you. Does that make sense?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, it is very similar to some people who can go to a dentist without receiving any anesthesia for removing a cavity and drilling in their teeth. It is the same kinds of living in the light that the pain does not exist.
Student: So, it all boils down to a power of thought, too, doesn’t it again?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, what you hold in your mind out-forms in your life.
Student: Thank you! Thank you so much! I have no more questions.
- Changing unconscious thinking to conscious thought
MMc: Very good. I have one. Machiventa, recently, you suggested a book by George Lakoff, Don’t Think of an Elephant. I found Lakoff’s views on thinking quite interesting, but I have some questions that I’d like to address to you, if I may? According to Lakoff, about 98% of thinking happens subconsciously, or unconsciously, and only 2 % in the conscious mind. The unconscious mind has frames, metaphors, narratives, prototypes, stereotypes and assumptions that set up the world view that the person has that directs their conscious thinking. This is the reason that we are able to think quite quickly and come to almost instantaneous decisions in our lives. This is very helpful. But on the other hand, these unconscious thoughts that we have aren’t accessible to us consciously, and they set up a situation where conservatives and progressives have different worldviews, and the information that a conservative would accept is different from the information that a progressive would accept, because they have different worldviews. To give an example, a lot of conservatives still don’t believe [in] climate change and global warming, simply because it doesn’t compute in their worldview. The question I have is: Is there a way of changing people’s minds, or getting them to open up this unconscious thinking to conscious thought, so that they can analyze their own unconscious minds and come to better concepts of truth, fact and reality, rather than just the assumptions and the information that they have collected throughout their lifetime and hold unconsciously?
MACHIVENTA: Yes, certainly. Let me explain: We have explained this before, but your question assists us to, as Lakoff would say, “reframe your conceptual constructs in a way that is understandable for those who hold such strict constructs in their mind.” In brief, the circumstances of global warming, and the climatologic effects are having a traumatic effect on the thinking of many people. This will be exacerbated immensely by tectonic activity and volcanism as well in your world when they do occur. The work of the progressives, and those who think outside the box of the structured thinking, the question that they will ask in contemporary language is, “How is this working for you?” It is important that the question be asked or raised.
The people that have highly structured, unconscious thinking processes with all those frames in their mind, as you mentioned, it never occurs to them to question that. When you as a person, a friend of a conservative person that asks them, “How is this working for you? Is this working? Is your thinking working for you? Is it producing happiness? Is it producing solutions? Or are you just simply making the same mistakes and going through the same habits as a hamster in a hamster cage. You have a responsibility to assist these staid and stolid and crystallized psyches into awakening by asking them questions.
As the circumstances of physical life on your world become egregiously difficult, the questions become more and more pointed. Today, the physical cataclysms are foremost in most people’s minds, but most of you have failed to realize, or become aware of the social cataclysms that are occurring around you now. The cataclysm that we mentioned earlier of the immigrants from the Middle East and Africa, who are now emigrating from their countries to European countries, is a cataclysm of immense proportions, and the impact of their presence has not been felt, and will be felt in approximately 2-3 years. By the time 2018 arrives, Europe will be in immense flux and difficulty at that time. In situations as that it is time to ask what is necessary to help people who are “stuck in their thinking” to look for larger answers in that situation. For example, what accompanies a tsunami that washes into the Los Angeles Basin? Asking them questions that challenge their way of thinking is a beginning to the development of more open-minded individuals. You, as a person who can think “outside the box” have a responsibility to assist them to do that.
Ask those questions in a kindly manner, not sarcastically or meanly, but simply a sincere question as you would assist someone who has sprained their ankle, and you say, “Well, do this and do this and you can walk more easily.” They take that advice and assist themselves. By asking these questions kindly to awaken their consciousness of their responsibilities to live competently and carefully in their life, you would come to be of great assistance to everyone concerned. This is the slow process of bending cultures of the conservative portions of societies, whether it is political, economic, or social. You have the responsibility to ask these questions to open their minds to greater possibilities, and this, in fact, was the work that Jesus did while he was here on your world.
MMc: Thank you. Is it possible for an individual to consciously, through your own critical thinking and asking questions and using discernment and reflective thinking, is it possible for a person to actually see it in their own subconscious, or their own unconscious values, and in effect, reach in and change some of those things that go on in there, and change those assumptions and preconceived ideas?
MACHIVENTA: Fundamentally, yes. You are talking about a very highly advanced mind that is able to engage in critical thinking and discernment at that level. We would object to your description of “reaching in” or “looking in” to their mind. That might portray a situation that would be beyond the credulity of other people who don’t know what you are talking about. You know what you mean, but yes, the discerning mind, the self-observing mind can “see” what is productive in their thinking, and what is not productive. They might not be able to analyze and put a diagram on a blackboard or whiteboard of what is occurring in their mind, but they can understand how their thinking is working for them, and how it is not. When you are tormented by your mind going off on its own bent about being angry with someone, or being resentful, or regretting something, or worrying about the future, this is your conscious mind going awry. It is the responsibility of your will-mind to come to a position of intolerance of such thinking, and counsel your conscious-mind to become more mature.
How you amend the detrimental thinking of your conscious-mind, it is a process to be in the moment to think positively, and to rid yourself of such negative thinking patterns. You can also, as it has been advised to you in The Urantia Book, substitute your mind for the mind of Jesus, the mind of Christ, the mind of Christ Michael. You, of course, do not have the capacity of consciousness to engulf the immensity of that kind of mind, but the pattern can be replicated in your mortal mind to do so. Being open and requesting of your angels and your Thought Adjuster is an immense start to amending your detrimental thinking. Thank you for your question.
MMc: Thank you for your answer. Are there any more questions from the group? (None.)
Do you have any closing statements for us, Machiventa?
- Closing remarks on bringing peace to everyone
MACHIVENTA: Yes, certainly. We have shown you and discussed the individual who is self- observing of their thinking and their behaviors, habits and their patterns, and that a self-observing individual can amend their lives tremendously to move towards peaceful thinking, and so on. This same kind of consciousness is also capable within organizations and your culture. It is simply a matter of stating, “We need to be conscious of what is working in our society and what is not, and we must take steps to remove those habits and patterns which cause us great difficulty, and embellish and enhance and support those habits and patterns and ways of thinking and living that bring peace to everyone. In other words, you would become self-observing and you would become a learning person [or] an organization to bring about peace. It begins with the willingness to overcome stubborn penchants for obstinacy and stubbornness. These are great impediments to the maturing evolution of a personality and of a society. The alternatives are very severe for failure to do so. Know that we are here with you, and you are ably assisted by many spiritual beings that are eager to help you when you invite them. Thank you and good day.