Talk:2012-11-23-Last Day of Normal

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Conflict Notification

Readers should be apprised of conflicting assessments of the ABC Summaries, occurring specifically in the documents Conversations with Monjoronson numbers 65, 66, and 67.--rdavis 19:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Ron Besser wrote: Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Dear List,

I rather not this be true and I rather not be the one who makes it available to read. And I hope I am wrong and Rayson is wrong. For the last four or five days I have received the same message in different forms from several different sources. This being the fifth like it over the past five days I feel obligated to say something by publishing its warning. Below is the latest one remembering my part in the Flurry No. 10 these messages keep interrupting and which is not yet released and may be withheld depending on the truth of what is to occur shortly as told in the transmission below.

Rob wrote: Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Hello Ron-

Thank you for sharing! I have a question as to whether Rayson in referring to "these Papers" is citing the Urantia Papers or the ABC Summaries (and Flurries)?

Gratefully,

Rob

Oliver Deux wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 7:18 AM

Dear Siblings:

Ron's tidal wave warning did not trigger an emotional response in me, the "transmission" is filled with too many inaccuracies and omissions. Just remember how far Japan and South China are apart and they are said to be both inundated. Look at all the other countries between Korea and Japan down to South China that would be affected and are not named. I think it is time to give the chief scientist Rayson a map. (I would if this platform would allow graphics. Use google image to get one yourself.)

Some do not see volition in Ron's delusions. I can not disagree. I know mental disorders through my work in drug rehabilitation, but I am a lifetime away from actual experiences. My friend is bi-polar, so I deal with that illness every day. But spiritual delusional disorder is something that I want to learn more about. Alice Bailey has been my only source for spiritual delusional glamor, and I have quoted her in the past.

My certainty is my daily interaction --or when I think of it-- with Christ Michael or my Adjuster, and I can not claim that I can keep these spirit influences apart. They are either one for me as human, or they are one as has been revealed, and/or it is true what the blue book says that for all intents and purposes all Spirit influences are the same, as one, to us. If there are exceptions, and I am sure the Monjoronson camp can generate them, I can not remember hearing about them.

Caligastia has always been a scapegoat for those who are spirit-lazy. A Monjoronson transmission has even pointed out that AIDS was the final gift of Cali to us humans. It amazes me what people can generate and believe.

Living with mental illness, I have come to see that for some people a new life without pain, a new body that can be nourished economically and a teaching environment that is truly patient, accepting and cosmically intelligent, is the best that can happen to them. Especially when the human mind faculties are not functioning "normal." There are plenty of examples of humans overcoming or compensating bodily injury when the mind is sound and not spiritually isolated.

While some see Ron as unconsciously deceived, which would imply the workings of a deceiving force, I can not subscribe to that theory. You see in all of my rather extensive mind-expanding experiments with so-called hallucinogenic substances, I have never encountered the proverbial deceiver. I have "talked down" plenty of mostly youngsters after they had taken acid and ended up in dark places with loud sounds and flashing lights, and I have listened to what they have seen. But I never had the experience of meeting a devil. I saw light beings full of acceptance and joy instead. I refuse to blame the evil ones, especially since I believe they have been adjudicated. I can observe remnants of evil and iniquity that they left behind, but I can not subscribe to them being active any longer as little as I can blame my parents for my fuckedupness. I believe we are in charge to find our truth, and if we are guided right and actually listen, we can have a life that is guided by the highest meanings and values. We can never feel alone if we search within, and from there we are guided to socialize, at least this is so in my case.

At this point I am at a loss to understand Ron's affliction. I see an isolated personality who communicates solely when he believes he can convince others. I see a doer who has not learnt the benefits of group or team work. I see an intelligent communicator, an adequate wordsmith, who avoids to share any personal struggles or details of his material or spiritual path. He simply seems to live spiritually on the edge.

If he speaks the truth, he has five sources for todays planet-changing events. What Rayson avoided to say is that the world's supply and communication routes would be severely interrupted. We would see the end of life on this planet as we know it. As it goes with predictions, and sure the Teaching Mission teachers have never given us any indication that they can predict -- they have only told us that they can make out tendencies and give prognosis, but the variables of the fickle human minds are such that predictions are virtually impossible even for them. Now Rayson has become a chief scientist, and when he once was attached to Melchizedek, he of course graduated to the magisterial mission and now he can predict tidal waves without naming their cause?

Revealing as it is of me, it is seven AM here, 10PM Tokyo time, and the headlines say: Egypt judges condemn "unprecedented attack" by Mursi.

Enjoy your Saturday and worship the only God.

Oliver

Gerdean wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 1:05 PM

Several years ago, there was a big Celestial Nights gathering at Cape San Blas. It was a very enthusiastic crowd -- including our brother Roland -- and Hal Bynum and Rebecca -- who trekked over to a house on the beach across the way, so as to hear Hal Bynum sing a couple of songs from his new CD and to hear transmissions if anyone was so inclined. There were a few, but Roland ruled the day by his transmission of a very high being (cannot remember who or what he was, but he was Very High Up onthe spiritual hierarchy). It was uncomfortable to watch Roland transmit that entity. It was uncomfortable to watch him slide right into the power of the entity he transmitted. He gloried in it. He rose to new heights. And the crowd ate it up. They eagerly bowed to the power of the entity being transmitted, and Roland felt it. He might not have accepted it as his due, but he rose to the occasion. He was puffed up with spiritual pride.

It was, perhaps, Roland's last hoorah because right after that he seemed to vanish from our midst. He went back to Utah, got involved in recovery, embroiled himself in his construction company business, and never came back to the Teaching Mission. Next thing we knew, he had killed himself. He was unable to master his addiction to alcohol.

I know something about alcoholism. It can afflict almost anybody, and the manifestations of the disease vary widely, but they are often much like the personality manifestations of Judas, which Oliver alludes to below (an isolated personality who communicates solely when he believes he can convince others. I see a doer who has not learnt the benefits of group or team work. I see an intelligent communicator, an adequate wordsmith, who avoids to share any personal struggles or details of his material or spiritual path). The grandiosity of alcoholics is a counter-balance to their sense of insignificance. They frequently, in their cups, present themselves as "six foot tall and bullet proof." John Waynes who will save the day, whether anybody wants it saved or not, because it is the nature of the disease to destroy anything and anyone that stands in the way of what they are determined to do. Until they fall flat on their face and pass out. Until the next time. Generally speaking, alcoholics are not very happy people, although they are often the life of the party.

I am not saying Ron Besser is an alcoholic. It would not be my place to say such a thing even if I knew it to be true, because only the alcoholic has the right (and the duty) to admit his liability. And s/he must admit it in order to turn his or her life around and become a productive member of society. But his isolation is a clue, and his grandiosity is another. But just as an alcoholic's behavior will affect the whole family ... they learn to work around the "elephant in the living room" all the while becoming more twisted as a result of the machinations of the alcoholic ... even the community, because the warped behavior of covering up ones flaws and weaknesses with bravado and braggadocio impacts on the job and in the marketplace. And this is what has concerned me from the beginning about Mr. Besser. For all his genius, he has taken the teaching mission, and those of us who consider it to be a spiritual program, down with him into a dreamworld of his own imagining, populated by superheroes, one more powerful and more impressive than the last.

Yesterday, on Facebook, one of my friends asked, "What did Ron Besser put in his cereal this morning?" It is obvious that his posts are going farther and faster over the deep end. So it is clear that his well-being is in question. And since folks understand him to represent us, the TeaM, we are all the more looking foolish (just as Al-Anon are made to look foolish) for putting up with such. I prefer to think that people with this disease (like Roland and myself) and a lot of other people in our correcting time /planetary recovery movement, are more sick than evil. But there is no question that active sickness of this nature has an impact which can definitely be considered evil, even iniquitous, so it needs to be dealt with. One way or another. Some people get help; some people shoot themselves; most people prefer denial. TeaM has been in denial for many years already. Monjoronson is the elephant in the livingroom.

Gerdean

Steffani wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 1:53 PM

I dunno Oliver and Everyone,

It is the way Ron questions Jesus/Christ Michael's Sovereignty ("I and the Father are ONE") awareness and knowledge which often sound way off base to me! (perhaps even disrespectful to Deity)

Up on my bulletin board in front of me sitting here at this computer there is a 'Family Circus' cartoon showing the children having run into a long-haired man in a robe carrying a sign proclaiming, "the World Will End Tomorrow!" One says to the other, "He's wrong...It's already tomorrow in Australia!"

("out of the mouths of babes" did a truer prophet say the truth so often comes ;-)

Michael and Machiventa are my primary spiritual mentors, and they have both indicated that "prophesy" though humans can never be accurate... Especially regarding dates and times...even Machiventa cannot be certain what those humans who have not as yet surrendered their will and way back to our Father Who gave it are going to do next...and even those who have resolved and are whole-heartedly determined to do only Father's Will nonetheless make mistakes because they don't always get it right. Michael may know...but doesn't intercede unless he is invited to do so in a way which fulfills and reconstructs the Father's original destiny plan for any individual who is asking for ONLY that. 28:6.11

We mortals can use science, seismic surveys, computer program variables factored in relating to climate change due to human and/or natural causes,etc. but there are always a plethora of unknowns in every given situation...and myriad potential geologic and astronomic catastrophes possible for Urantia or any other young unsettled planet on any given day, week, month or year...which may or may not be prevented by the Powers that Be.15:8.6

'God' of course, has the Power and could intervene in all kinds of situations involving 'cosmic' natural causes, yet according to His Wisdom and purposes He apparently doesn't often choose to do so...29:2.16

And no Divine Being would ever over-ride God given mortal free will... Although doubtless They always hope we will learn to "decide with God" and make such choices as our Adjuster sanctions! Father knows all things, the end from the beginning, no surprises...that's what Omniscience means...and technically, He would let us know the answer to every question we could ever think of asking AS we were thinking it...

The same would be true for the Creator Sons as the Alpha and Omega of the time/space universes they create...but to actualize potentials of experience for God the Supreme I think we all must have agreed somehow to forget to remember what questions to ask while we seem to be in linear time...otherwise everyone would know what happens next before it occurs which would possibly preclude it from happening...there must be a kind of self-limitation or amnesia present in order to temporally realitize experience...149:2.10

Just as Joshua Ben Joseph didn't remember he was Michael of Nebadon until he attained maturity as human being, who would have at that point been ready for Adjuster fusion if he hadn't been the Creator Son of this universe...And he has created our time/space existences, even though we have always existed as as a Thought(Adjuster) and personality in the Mind of the Paradise Father..100:2.8

It only sounds complicated while we're in the midst of it...bottom line is that if we trust God then we can be ok with uncertainty about a lot of other things and people, just as long as all that is personally relevant to our walk with Him is revealed, as soon as we need to know it! 159:3.13

Hopefully we will each have the strength and willingness to do our individual part towards actualizing the Will of God in time/space thus contributing to the expanding experience of the Supreme...helping our Creator/Father to actualize our universe into light and life...no more than that is ever asked of anyone!

Thought-fully,

Our Father has Infinite Faith in US

Steff

Jim Cleveland wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:03 PM

My goodness, such a story.

Alcohol consumption seems to me the antithesis of celestial transmitting. If I am a little tipsy, I could never get a word.

Imagine ... This is a product that gets one drunk and incapable of thinking or even standing or remaining conscious. How can one be addicted to it is a mystery to me?

But I surely know they are. My uncle Elmo offed himself. Such a tragedy.

Is someone saying Ron is an alcoholic? He is, of course, on the list. Hi Ron.

I can't see that as a possibility at all.

jim

Joseph Pick wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:19 PM

Again excuse my redundancy, Im new; But as an avid reader of the ABC Summaries and Flurries, which are written by Ron, should i regard those as a possible farce as well? And yes i know the answer lies within, but sheesh...

Rob wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 2:49 PM

Speaking of Roland, consider this reply of Abraham to Roland's query about the Bible Code.

In these prophesies there is long held beliefs that to predict the future is to find proof that God exists. In these books it is your choice to take what is valuable, and allow the rest to fall away. I am not against anything you might find interesting or entertaining, no. I would say, please, by all means enjoy, and look for Father's fingerprints where you may. To accept certain concepts as the gospel could perhaps lead you to irrational thinking and actions, but this place, this meeting place is a safe arena in which to throw in the hat of inquiry. Your fellow group members are filled with varied sides. (1)

John Kimble wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:12 PM

Words like 'delusional' is not fair Oliver. It could be said, that ALL of you T/Rs that talk to dead people, Angels, Midwayers, and Spirit Beings are 'delusional' as well.

If you doubt what I say, just go on TV or the News and tell EVERYBODY exactly what you T/Rs do and who you talk to, and see if you too are not labeled 'delusional', crazy, and a bunch of Spiritual Nuts

So, let's give Ron a break here, as he is only being himself, speaking his truth as he "hears" it. Now, it is true he is batting ZERO with these predictions over the years, but that does not give any of us the right to label him 'delusional'. We still got December 30th & 31st, yet to come, and even if Ron strikes out on ALL of his predictions of late, I have thoroughly enjoy my mental exercise of "discernment". If anything, Ron's predictions ARE good for strengthening ones discernment skills. In that since, he serve a valuable purpose to all of us.

We are suppose to be "spiritually" above labels and name calling. Would Christ Michael or Machiventa call Ron that? I don't think so. We NEED to practice being more God-like.

Eventually, Ron will "check" himself, before he wrecks himself WITH our Prayers, Brotherly Love and concern. Yet, I have to ask, What would you'll have called him if his predictions actually came true? What would you call him then Oliver? Somehow, I think you would have given him any "credit" at all. Very few of you would have. Just saying.....

Don't count Ron out yet, we still got December 30th & 31st to come.

Truly With Brotherly Love

STuTe

Rob wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 3:50 PM

Hello John,

As for Ron's personal liberty to explore and express "his truth" is concerned, no one here would dissuade him from doing so. However, in as much as he has conflated his personal spiritual experience with The Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission, it only confirms what we know well, that "evil always results when purely personal evaluations are elevated to the levels of absolutes." (1) One must distinguish between personal spiritual freedom and professional representation of a public charity.

Gratefully,

Rob

Jim Cleveland wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 5:44 PM

Hi Rob, yes and ...

He can't say that you haven't told him so over the years ... again and again and again .... in ever-recurring opaquenesses of clarity. You were right all along.

But is he convinced?

I'm just glad Asia is safe .... for now.

and that a massive quake didn't solve our immigration problem.

jim the jovial

Gerdean wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:18 PM

What you say here, Rob, is truth. It would be a whole different paradigm of reality if Mr. Besser were to send forth his Flurries into the ethers as any T/R might -- with personal libertyto explore and express his truth. But he virtually "owns" the Teaching Mission, by virtue of the fact that he seized the transcripts to create a foundation upon which the Monjoronson Mission could be built and so he has set himself up as our infallible leader. No organization worth its salt would tolerate such a flagrant conflict of interest.

"One must distinguish between personal spiritual freedom and professional representation of a public charity."

The fact that our treasures are more "spiritual" than "material" in no way diminishes the fact that Ron Besser, as self-proclaimed and self-installed CEO, is running the company and paying himself huge dividends. Moreover, he has tried more than once to fire me, and Oliver; he tried to diminish you, as well; and he tried to bury the Teaching Mission, but could not succeed. It hardly matters, though, because it is altogether sullied, totally besmirched by the grandiosity inherent in the Circus it has become.

Gerdean

Rob wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:57 PM

Errors do not belittle the inherent value of faith children of God learning to walk with him. Do we stumble, of course, but only to see more clearly the step upon which we lift ourselves to press on.

Oliver Deux wrote: Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 9:50 PM

Dear STuTe:

Semantics is a treacherous field. 'Delusional' means that it is characterized by delusion, which is nothing more than a mistaken opinion or an erroneous belief. It is also used in descriptions of mental disorders, such as in the descriptions of paranoiac disorders. I can not forget that when the first devastating warning of imminent destruction to our planet came through, Ron put up a tickertape across the Archives webpage for this monumental announcement to the planet. And he has apt the antics ever since.

I can not immagine that it has escaped any of your regular Flurry fans that flagrant grandiosity is a landmark characteristic of our brother, and his propensity to channel the most spiritually influential and powerful exclusively does indeed give me some clues about his mindset. At the same time I am clueless of why only a few of us recognize what has been happening for so many years now. Or only a few speak.

I am simply not pleased when I am constantly confronted by my Urantian fellow students with these so-called transmissions that are not only contradictory, but also incomplete and regularly sensationalistic. This is simply not how I am used to being taught by the many different teachers that compiled The Urantia Book or the decades of rather consistent teachings in our Teaching Mission.

However, I like to be fair, and if you think I am not, what do you want me to do now?

You are absolutely correct, many of my friends, some family members, sometimes even my kids, believe that I am delusional. It is just a word that is often used derogatorily, but there is really no better one that I have found to describe consistent mistaken opinions and erroneous beliefs.

I appreciate that you want to wait for more evidence. During our recent 7.9 earthquake, I received what I considered a hilarious cartoon, saying: "We apologize for any inconvenience, but we Mayans are testing for the end of this year." To me it is unadulterated blasphemy to perpetuate beliefs that our omnipotent God can not keep a little troubled planet, that his Creator-Son choose among other troubled planets to further reveal the unconditional love, omnipresence and unlimited creativity of our one Father of all of His children. And then conclude that if Father wants to interfere for whatever divine reason, that the celestial hierarchy is not set up to do so.

I am not even interested in predictions for a variety of reasons, among them being spirit poisons. First of all, it seems odd to me that while we are still agondonters we want to know much more than obviously can be given to us due to our pay grade. Predictions are a treacherous thing and not solvable from a time-and-space perspective. Yes, there are celestial statisticians working for the Father to predict, but they will give their finding on-a-need-to-know basis. And I do not need to know, lest my faith is jeopardized. Can anyone see that?

As I look more carefully at predictions, it would appear that we mortals are concerned with matters beyond our status. And that brings me quickly to my theory that from of tribal shamans to the MS mission tribe, we have seen attempts by some humans, mostly self-appointed leaders, to up their image, look better than their other mission members, and thus almost automatically get put on a pedestal and protected by their fans. This, I am sure is not part of the Paradise mode of doing things, and the higher the being hail from, the more they should point this out to us. But in these transmission they just don't, which raises a red flag right there.

They don't because we create their tales, and we would not cut off our own power that we derive from acting out of delusions of grandeur. If this sounds hard-nosed and relentless to you, it merely reveals the individual's concern for status -- unconsciously or consciously. And I have no idea as yet which it is. I was hoping for a discussion and not just a you-should-not-think-that-way, you-are-not fair, give-the-brother-a-chance. The brother will either go on to uphold his status, or he will not. If the latter is the case, we will hardly be able to find out what has been going on.

Having just observed, or even participated in a delusional election --and naturally I say this without delegating blame, because I think the correct person won-- let me add that a concern for status most often brings separation between individuals, which we observe for years on this list and in other related media venues. The universe I have learnt about is run on oneness, strives towards wholeness, and always integrates instead of separates. These matters are about our individual and personal growth if we allow fearless and honest evaluation.

Allow me to be as specific as I can on this Saturday night, where I usually cuddle up with some popcorn and spiritual cinema. The assumption that we R/Ts can not transmit garbled and delusional material is a false assumption. This process requires honesty and humility that allows us to continue to trust this entire process. Ron has been unwilling to engage in any manner other than telling us his personal constructs. Eat them or you will be sorry. He acts as if he was above it all, as some other R/Ts act as well. He certainly is not the only one, but he presently presents the most controversial material.

No matter who receives, all must be taken with the responsibility of personal evaluation. There are many for whom this is a real issue, whether they dare to speak out or not. It is quite simple, anyone who can muster sufficient respect for the beliefs of his or her others will want to enlarge to understand better what is really going on. Problems can only occur when the receiver refuses to enter into a dialog that includes divulging his or her sources and their individual background and spiritual understanding. We must be able to discern the receiver and how she or he is empowered to love through the very knowledge they receive. Otherwise we are lost, as we presently are with this receiver.

Our assessments, discernments are at their best when they are given with mercy and are fair and just. Thus I am responding to you in what you might deem a defensive manner. But when a transmitter is obviously off-base what would you suggest should be done, other than appeal to fairness and allowing more chances? The wait-and-see attitude that some plead for today, when they yesterday were dancing on the bandwagon and waving flags?

In my experience there are parts in transmissions where true communication is actually occurring with our supernals triggered no less by their graciousness, acceptance, kindness and expressed love. And I can be completely humbled by the experience itself. But I can not keep this up during the entire transmission, it comes and fades. Afterwards I can underline the most sublime moments when I really connected, because those part are always full of loving kindness, fair didactics, and merciful patience. The teachers regularly stand in our Spirit Parent's love far beyond my meager capacity. They are role models to me, and when there are transmissions offered up where they are not, we should know that, and say so.

Most R/Ts want to emulate the teachers, even if it means that we use our own voices.

And I must agree with Brother George, who recently commented: "Ouija board and (unseen) Borderland stuff is probably not very healthy. ;-) "

Enjoy your weekend and worship in your own unique way.

Oliver

Gerdean wrote:Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:24 PM

Loud and clear, Oliver.