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3. Daynals - Trinity origin
3. Daynals - Trinity origin
but no order derived from the union of Father-Spirit associated with the [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=104:4_The_Seven_Triunities fourth triunity]. I would welcome the thoughts of yours and any others on this point.
but no order derived from the union of Father-Spirit associated with the [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=104:4_The_Seven_Triunities fourth triunity]. I would welcome the thoughts of yours and any others on this point.
'''Ron wrote: Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:57 PM'''
'''Ron wrote: Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:57 PM'''
Thanks
Thanks
Ron
Ron
'''Rob wrote: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 4:33 PM'''
Hello Ron-
Thank you for such a generous reply!
No doubt, a universe the size of our cosmic home features billions of unrevealed Paradise Sons though it is likely there are far fewer orders of such beings than beings themselves. Nevertheless, I do appreciate how coy is the construction of the Urantia Papers as if to tease us (to use one of Jerry's phrases) into greater illumination. For instance:
[[20:1|20:1.1a]] - Of the numerous orders of descending Sons, seven will be depicted (e.g. revealed) in these narratives.
In other words, while the opening statement implies many more orders are not depicted, the sentence that follows
[[20:1|20:1.1b]] - Those Sons who come forth from the Deities on the central Isle of Light and Life are called the Paradise Sons of God and embrace the following three orders........
refers categorically without any qualification to "the following three orders". Of course, it has always struck me that the two orders depicted whose genesis is a liaison between two of the three Paradise Deities logically begs the question concerning such liaisons between all possible combinations of such Deities, especially the Father-Spirit liaison as it is altogether missing from this 'depiction'.
The thought that this unnamed order that I assume to exist as one concerned exclusively (?) with outer space levels is interesting to consider. The one unrevealed order whose acquaintance I/we have made (consciously) is Cenestron, and as he described himself as "like a Melchizedek even if somewhat autonomic and commanding omniscient recall of all bibliographic references in the archives of Nebadon", made me wonder if he were not in some manner analogous to this Father-Spirit order of Paradise Sons. However, initially I took his self description to mean he belonged to the Local Universe order of Descending Sons who are unrevealed at this time.
I appreciate the recognition of the 8 unrevealed Triunities relating to post-finite domains, and while it is best to allow ourselves to be at peace in our lack of capacity to fully comprehend those 7 that are revealed given we cannot know "the ultimate level of the triunities", nevertheless would you explain your reference to the Third Triunity "that is unrevealed" as it does appear rather explicitly revealed in the list of the first seven we are invited to attempt understanding.
Gratefully,
Rob
'''Ron wrote: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 6:57 PM'''
Rob:
You write:
I appreciate the recognition of the 8 unrevealed Triunities relating to post-finite domains, and while it is best to allow ourselves to be at peace in our lack of capacity to fully comprehend those 7 that are revealed given we cannot know "the ultimate level of the triunities", nevertheless would you explain your reference to the Third Triunity "that is unrevealed" as it does appear rather explicitly revealed in the list of the first seven we are invited to attempt understanding.
Ron: I was not referring to the Third Triunity when I spoke about something being unrevealed. I was talking about the relationship that Luminaya has to the Third Triunity. You see, the Master Spirits have a front row seat to the doings of the Paradise Deities. They have a channel they can tune into to listen to (or maybe even see?) the deliberations the Triunities hold concerning the operation of the Master Universe. This is not unlike televising the deliberations of the Senate that Americans can listen to to follow the arguments that develop how certain actions or codes are to be distributed as laws of the land.
Luminaya is the Voice of the Son-Spirit Deity union. As such Luminaya apparently holds the key to the application of Son-Spirit policy as it pertains to the four outer space areas regarding the spirit promulgations that are to take effect in those areas beyond the superuniverses. They speak of this openly to me, but they are quiet about what form or forms spirit takes in the outer space regions. This is what I was trying to explain in the last post: Luminaya has this unrevealed feature or contact with the Third Triunity regarding spirit form of divinities (e.g. the proposed existence of descending Sons of the Son-Spirit union.)
Both the Third Triunity and the Fourth Triunity potentially contain the open door to figuring out how God the Ultimate will approach the next universe age. Luminaya already knows God the Ultimate and may speak for Him in the high counsels on Paradise. To time-space these are personality decisions that represent future ages and are off limits to our understanding to prevent development of thought which casts almost no preference for the right decisions, and only for the facts about decision being made. You rightly may ask, "What am I talking about?". We have at our command language, but we do not have at our command thought which precedes language, and God the Ultimate thinks in terms of pre-language expressions which contain no verb!
I hope you bear with me on this because it really starts to explain what the Urantia Book refers to in describing God the Ultimate as eventuating perfection of concepts. In time space, we act (verb) to bring about an event or a completion of task. God the Ultimate, represents the abilities of having no time in space concepts. God the Ultimate can take the arrangement of past verb actions of time (historical development) in a thought, is able to remove al the experiments of how those verbs brought a conclusion in time, and then reproduces time conclusions better than what time could by leaving the action (verb) out. This process produces perfection before it can be qualified by the activity of time limitations yet remain experiential.
Perhaps you can get a glimmer of what is being spoken to here although I find myself so hampered by time language it is very hard to get at what they are trying to tell us.
Nonetheless, both the Third and Fourth Triunities have the potential to exercise Ultimacy as they are, and they do so in the Master Universe (not Paradise) through liaison with the Master Spirit actions through time-space to the residence of God the Ultimate. Please note the evidence of this statement by observing the make up of these Triunities (3 and 4) which are The Deity Absolute and the Unqualified Absolute respectively as members of the debating committee, and these are the repositories of the potentials I am speaking of.
If one can penetrate this thinking, then one might also penetrate why the absonite precedes time and then follows the finalization of Supreme values of time as in the outer space areas beyond the seven superuniverses of time. If I may, let me summarize this appearance of the absonite, followed by time, followed by Ultimacy cycle as "Perfection by fiat (Trinity = Havona), Perfection-Action experientialized (Father-Son = the Seven Superuniverses), Perfection-Thought experientialized. (Son-Spirit = the four outer space levels)"
Do not make the mistake which is so easy to do to think that the four outer space areas are analogous to a homogeneous development of Ultimacy. By that I mean, do not think each one of the four levels revealed to us are a convenient way to break down a vast area into manageable bites for administrative purposes. They are not the same just as the 7 superuniverses are not the same in development. I have no idea what the quartan development of Ultimacy may include, but it does have quartan universes as opposed to galactic universes in the seven superuniverses. Part of this difference is the manifestation of energy there. These developments are addressed in the unrevealed Triunities, and the Master Spirits are controlling influences over all 15 Triunities revealed and unrevealed.
Ociliaya, Mantrinaya, and Luminaya have a great deal to do with developments that remain as future revelations to us,and even among the Triunities which operate directly with the current universe age (the seven revealed in the text), there is enough integration of potentials in time to call for secrecy of relationships among the Master Spirit activities regarding Triunities of Supreme completion.
Ron
'''Rob wrote: Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:40 PM'''
Thank you Ron!
Of course, I see now what your meaning was all along in reference to the Third Triunity. In other words, you are saying that the Master Spirit Luminaya has a relationship to this Triunity that is unrevealed and related to the topic of unrevealed orders of Descending Sons given the Son-Spirit component in relation to the Deity Absolute.
I appreciate your drawing attention to the relationships each of the Master Spirits has to these Triunities, each one uniquely germane to the specific function of one of the Master Spirits. This deserves further consideration.
As we reach beyond the finite, we encounter the inherent limits of our mortal minds. However, I am encouraged that though we must think in a mortal universe frame, this does not preclude us from considering higher frames within which thought can occur. In this regard, I am most appreciative of your reference to that thought inherent in Ultimacy that is necessarily pre-linguistic and perhaps post-experiential though the latter may be reserved to the hypothetical integration of the Master Universe.
Toward this end, I will gladly bear with you confident that the apparent paradox of the absonite preceding and succeeding the finite points us to the fact that the seed of our being, mortal though it be, existed prior to our conscious discovery of such and holds in this moment on super-conscious levels the truth potential of our seventh-stage realization of destiny, glimpses of which we may catch though these will necessarily escape the grasp of the crude symbols we utilize for commonplace expression.
Gratefully,
Rob
