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161:1.1 There was one matter on which Rodan and the two [[apostles]] did not see alike, and that was the [[personality]] of [[God]][http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_5#5:6._THE_GOD_OF_PERSONALITY][http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_1#1:5._PERSONALITY_OF_THE_UNIVERSAL_FATHER]. Rodan readily [[accepted]] all that was presented to him regarding the [[attributes]] of [[God]], but he contended that [[the Father]] in heaven is not, cannot be, a [[person]] as man conceives [[personality]]. While [[the apostles]] found themselves in [[difficulty]] trying to [[prove]] that [[God]] is a [[person]], Rodan found it still more [[difficult]] to prove he is not a person.
161:1.2 Rodan contended that the [[fact]] of [[personality]] consists in the coexistent [[fact]] of full and [[mutual]] [[communication]] between [[beings]] of [[equality]], beings who are capable of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]. Said Rodan: " In order to be a [[person]], [[God]] must have [[symbols]] of [[spirit]] [[communication]] which would enable him to become fully [[understood]] by those who make [[contact]] with him. But since [[God]] is [[infinite]] and [[eternal]], the [[Creator]] of all other [[beings]], it follows that, as regards beings of [[equality]], [[God]] is [[alone]] in the [[universe]]. There are none [[equal]] to him; there are none with whom he can [[communicate]] as an [[equal]]. [[God]] indeed may be the [[source]] of all [[personality]], but as such he is [[transcendent]] to [[personality]], even as the [[Creator]] is above and beyond the [[creature]]. "
161:1.3 This contention greatly troubled [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] and [[Nathaniel]], and they had asked [[Jesus]] to come to their [[rescue]], but [[the Master]] refused to enter into their [[discussions]]. He did say to [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]]: " It matters little what [[idea]] of [[the Father]] you may entertain as long as you are [[spiritually]] acquainted with the [[ideal]] of his [[infinite]] and [[eternal]] [[nature]]. "
161:1.4 [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] contended that [[God]] does [[communicate]] with [[man]], and therefore that [[the Father]] is a [[person]], even within the definition of Rodan. This the [[Greek]] [[rejected]] on the ground that [[God]] does not [[reveal]] himself [[personally]]; that he is still a [[mystery]]. Then [[Nathaniel]] [[appealed]] to his own [[personal]] [[experience]] with [[God]], and that Rodan allowed, affirming that he had recently had similar [[experiences]], but these experiences, he contended, [[proved]] only the [[reality]] of [[God]], not his [[personality]]
161:1.5 By Monday night [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] gave up. But by Tuesday night [[Nathaniel]] had won Rodan to [[believe]] in the [[personality]] of [[the Father]], and he [[effected]] this [[change]] in the Greek's [[views]] by the following steps of [[reasoning]]:
*1. 161:1.6 [[The Father]] in [[Paradise]] does enjoy [[equality]] of [[communication]] with at least two other [[beings]] who are fully [[equal]] to himself and wholly like himself—the [[Eternal Son]] and the [[Infinite Spirit]]. In view of the [[doctrine]] of the [[Trinity]], the [[Greek]] was compelled to [[concede]] the [[personality]] [[possibility]] of the [[Universal Father]]. (It was the later [[consideration]] of these [[discussions]] which led to the enlarged [[conception]] of the [[Trinity]] in the [[minds]] of the [[twelve apostles]]. Of course, it was the general [[belief]] that [[Jesus]] was the [[Eternal Son]].)
*2. 161:1.7 Since [[Jesus]] was [[equal]] with [[the Father]], and since [[Divine Sons|this Son]] had [[achieved]] the [[manifestation]] of [[personality]] to his [[earth]] [[children]], such a [[phenomenon]] constituted [[proof]] of the [[fact]], and [[demonstration]] of the [[possibility]], of the [[possession]] of [[personality]] by all [[three]] of [[the Gods|the Godheads]] and forever settled the question regarding the [[ability]] of [[God]] to [[communicate]] with man and the [[possibility]] of man's communicating with [[God]].
*3. 161:1.8 That [[Jesus]] was on terms of [[mutual]] [[association]] and [[perfect]] [[communication]] with man; that [[Jesus]] was the [[Son of God]]. That the [[relation]] of Son and Father presupposes [[equality]] of [[communication]] and [[mutuality]] of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]; that [[Jesus]] and [[the Father]] were one. That [[Jesus]] [[maintained]] at one and the [[same time]] [[understanding]] [[communication]] with both God and man, and that, since both [[God]] and man [[comprehended]] the [[meaning]] of the [[symbols]] of [[Jesus]]' communication, both God and man [[possessed]] the [[attributes]] of [[personality]] in so far as the requirements of the [[ability]] of intercommunication were concerned. That the [[personality]] of [[Jesus]] [[demonstrated]] the personality of [[God]], while it proved conclusively the [[presence]] of [[God]] in man. That [[two]] [[things]] which are related to the same thing are related to each other.
*4. 161:1.9 That [[personality]] [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of [[human]] [[reality]] and [[divine]] [[values]]; that [[God]] also [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of divine [[reality]] and [[infinite]] [[values]]; therefore, that [[God]] must be a divine and [[infinite]] [[personality]], a personality in [[reality]] although infinitely and eternally [[transcending]] man's [[concept]] and definition of personality, but nevertheless always and [[universally]] a [[personality]].
*5. 161:1.10 That [[God]] must be a [[personality]] since he is the [[Creator]] of all [[personality]] and the [[destiny]] of all [[personality]]. Rodan had been tremendously [[influenced]] by the teaching of [[Jesus]], " Be you therefore [[perfect]], even as y[[our Father]] in heaven is perfect. "[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_matthew#Chapter_5]
161:1.11 When Rodan heard these [[arguments]], he said: " I am convinced. I will [[confess]] [[God]] as a [[person]] if you will [[permit]] me to qualify my confession of such a [[belief]] by attaching to the [[meaning]] of personality a [[group]] of extended [[values]], such as [[superhuman]], [[transcendent]], [[supreme]], [[infinite]], [[eternal]], final, and [[universal]]. I am now convinced that, while [[God]] must be infinitely more than a [[personality]], he cannot be anything less. I am [[satisfied]] to end the [[argument]] and to [[accept]] [[Jesus]] as the [[personal]] [[revelation]] of [[the Father]] and the [[satisfaction]] of all unsatisfied [[factors]] in [[logic]], [[reason]], and [[philosophy]]. "
<center>[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_161 Go to Paper 161]</center>
<center>[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=The_Urantia_Text_-_Contents Go to Table of Contents]</center>
[[Category:Paper 161 - Further Discussions with Rodan]]
161:1.1 There was one matter on which Rodan and the two [[apostles]] did not see alike, and that was the [[personality]] of [[God]][http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_5#5:6._THE_GOD_OF_PERSONALITY][http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_1#1:5._PERSONALITY_OF_THE_UNIVERSAL_FATHER]. Rodan readily [[accepted]] all that was presented to him regarding the [[attributes]] of [[God]], but he contended that [[the Father]] in heaven is not, cannot be, a [[person]] as man conceives [[personality]]. While [[the apostles]] found themselves in [[difficulty]] trying to [[prove]] that [[God]] is a [[person]], Rodan found it still more [[difficult]] to prove he is not a person.
161:1.2 Rodan contended that the [[fact]] of [[personality]] consists in the coexistent [[fact]] of full and [[mutual]] [[communication]] between [[beings]] of [[equality]], beings who are capable of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]. Said Rodan: " In order to be a [[person]], [[God]] must have [[symbols]] of [[spirit]] [[communication]] which would enable him to become fully [[understood]] by those who make [[contact]] with him. But since [[God]] is [[infinite]] and [[eternal]], the [[Creator]] of all other [[beings]], it follows that, as regards beings of [[equality]], [[God]] is [[alone]] in the [[universe]]. There are none [[equal]] to him; there are none with whom he can [[communicate]] as an [[equal]]. [[God]] indeed may be the [[source]] of all [[personality]], but as such he is [[transcendent]] to [[personality]], even as the [[Creator]] is above and beyond the [[creature]]. "
161:1.3 This contention greatly troubled [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] and [[Nathaniel]], and they had asked [[Jesus]] to come to their [[rescue]], but [[the Master]] refused to enter into their [[discussions]]. He did say to [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]]: " It matters little what [[idea]] of [[the Father]] you may entertain as long as you are [[spiritually]] acquainted with the [[ideal]] of his [[infinite]] and [[eternal]] [[nature]]. "
161:1.4 [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] contended that [[God]] does [[communicate]] with [[man]], and therefore that [[the Father]] is a [[person]], even within the definition of Rodan. This the [[Greek]] [[rejected]] on the ground that [[God]] does not [[reveal]] himself [[personally]]; that he is still a [[mystery]]. Then [[Nathaniel]] [[appealed]] to his own [[personal]] [[experience]] with [[God]], and that Rodan allowed, affirming that he had recently had similar [[experiences]], but these experiences, he contended, [[proved]] only the [[reality]] of [[God]], not his [[personality]]
161:1.5 By Monday night [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] gave up. But by Tuesday night [[Nathaniel]] had won Rodan to [[believe]] in the [[personality]] of [[the Father]], and he [[effected]] this [[change]] in the Greek's [[views]] by the following steps of [[reasoning]]:
*1. 161:1.6 [[The Father]] in [[Paradise]] does enjoy [[equality]] of [[communication]] with at least two other [[beings]] who are fully [[equal]] to himself and wholly like himself—the [[Eternal Son]] and the [[Infinite Spirit]]. In view of the [[doctrine]] of the [[Trinity]], the [[Greek]] was compelled to [[concede]] the [[personality]] [[possibility]] of the [[Universal Father]]. (It was the later [[consideration]] of these [[discussions]] which led to the enlarged [[conception]] of the [[Trinity]] in the [[minds]] of the [[twelve apostles]]. Of course, it was the general [[belief]] that [[Jesus]] was the [[Eternal Son]].)
*2. 161:1.7 Since [[Jesus]] was [[equal]] with [[the Father]], and since [[Divine Sons|this Son]] had [[achieved]] the [[manifestation]] of [[personality]] to his [[earth]] [[children]], such a [[phenomenon]] constituted [[proof]] of the [[fact]], and [[demonstration]] of the [[possibility]], of the [[possession]] of [[personality]] by all [[three]] of [[the Gods|the Godheads]] and forever settled the question regarding the [[ability]] of [[God]] to [[communicate]] with man and the [[possibility]] of man's communicating with [[God]].
*3. 161:1.8 That [[Jesus]] was on terms of [[mutual]] [[association]] and [[perfect]] [[communication]] with man; that [[Jesus]] was the [[Son of God]]. That the [[relation]] of Son and Father presupposes [[equality]] of [[communication]] and [[mutuality]] of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]; that [[Jesus]] and [[the Father]] were one. That [[Jesus]] [[maintained]] at one and the [[same time]] [[understanding]] [[communication]] with both God and man, and that, since both [[God]] and man [[comprehended]] the [[meaning]] of the [[symbols]] of [[Jesus]]' communication, both God and man [[possessed]] the [[attributes]] of [[personality]] in so far as the requirements of the [[ability]] of intercommunication were concerned. That the [[personality]] of [[Jesus]] [[demonstrated]] the personality of [[God]], while it proved conclusively the [[presence]] of [[God]] in man. That [[two]] [[things]] which are related to the same thing are related to each other.
*4. 161:1.9 That [[personality]] [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of [[human]] [[reality]] and [[divine]] [[values]]; that [[God]] also [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of divine [[reality]] and [[infinite]] [[values]]; therefore, that [[God]] must be a divine and [[infinite]] [[personality]], a personality in [[reality]] although infinitely and eternally [[transcending]] man's [[concept]] and definition of personality, but nevertheless always and [[universally]] a [[personality]].
*5. 161:1.10 That [[God]] must be a [[personality]] since he is the [[Creator]] of all [[personality]] and the [[destiny]] of all [[personality]]. Rodan had been tremendously [[influenced]] by the teaching of [[Jesus]], " Be you therefore [[perfect]], even as y[[our Father]] in heaven is perfect. "[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_matthew#Chapter_5]
161:1.11 When Rodan heard these [[arguments]], he said: " I am convinced. I will [[confess]] [[God]] as a [[person]] if you will [[permit]] me to qualify my confession of such a [[belief]] by attaching to the [[meaning]] of personality a [[group]] of extended [[values]], such as [[superhuman]], [[transcendent]], [[supreme]], [[infinite]], [[eternal]], final, and [[universal]]. I am now convinced that, while [[God]] must be infinitely more than a [[personality]], he cannot be anything less. I am [[satisfied]] to end the [[argument]] and to [[accept]] [[Jesus]] as the [[personal]] [[revelation]] of [[the Father]] and the [[satisfaction]] of all unsatisfied [[factors]] in [[logic]], [[reason]], and [[philosophy]]. "
<center>[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_161 Go to Paper 161]</center>
<center>[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=The_Urantia_Text_-_Contents Go to Table of Contents]</center>
[[Category:Paper 161 - Further Discussions with Rodan]]
