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| − | Welmek012693Tolerance
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| | + | ==Heading== |
| | + | ===Topic: ''Tolerance''=== |
| | + | ===Group: [[Cincinnati TeaM]]=== |
| | + | ==Facilitators== |
| | + | ===Teacher: [[Welmek]]=== |
| | + | ===TR: [[Jim Cleveland]]=== |
| | + | ==Session== |
| | + | ===Opening=== |
| | + | GROUP PRAYER: Dear Michael, this evening our main prayer is for the young people of our country, those without direction in their lives and finding themselves in a state of confusion, lacking the ability to make moral decisions. We ask that a corps of individuals with love in their |
| | + | hearts and minds be sent out into the cities, towns and rural counties across the 50 states of this country to work with and help these young |
| | + | people find love and understanding so great they may begin to build their lives on this foundation. We ask that this education program vary from |
| | + | group to group to truly meet their needs, emotionally and physically, to help them to prepare themselves to live productive lives, living with |
| | + | respect for themselves and their fellow Urantians. |
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| − | Welmek - January 26, 1993
| + | We ask that these teachers be sent by whatever vehicle you have at your disposal, our new presidential administration, churches, schools, for |
| | + | profit and non-profit companies as well as other branches of government and organizations. Also Michael, it is our deepest hope they will become God-knowing and God-loving. |
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| − | TOLERANCE
| + | In follow-up to two past prayers, please help clean water to flow through the Somalian countryside, water for medical needs and water needed to |
| | + | sustain life, whether it go the way of water trucks..but please help the water reach individuals who need it so amputations do not have to be done |
| | + | for individuals who are suffering from infections. Also, in the land formerly known as Yugoslavia, please impress upon the minds of the soldiers, military officers and leaders that rape is not an acceptable way to fight a war and bring about ethnic cleansing. Please help the United Nations to broker a peace treaty that will last. |
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| | + | And above all, Michael, we ask that your Father's will be done above our will in all these prayers and all these things that we ask. It is our deepest hope that these things that we have asked for will be able to come about through love and through your will, Michael. Thank you for listening to our prayers. |
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| − | GROUP PRAYER: Dear Michael, this evening our main prayer is for the
| + | WELMEK: Greetings everyone, this is Welmek. It is always a pleasure to be in association with you. It pleases us to hear your effective prayers. Each time you attempt to communicate in such a way, you do yourself as well as your brothers and sisters a great service. |
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| − | young people of our country, those without direction in their lives and
| + | Your prayer for the youth is wholly consistent with the activity that is currently going on amongst ourselves. There is a team called the New Generation Team. It is a specific corps of instructors that have been designed to implement programs that will do almost exactly what you have |
| | + | asked. We are wholly aware of the need for future generations follow- through with what we have started here over the past few years. It is truly deplorable to see so many of the youth of your world in such a plight, not knowing who to love, not knowing about the Father, unsure of themselves and unsure of a secure future. |
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| − | finding themselves in a state of confusion, lacking the ability to make
| + | These things, my friends, will take time to change. They take effort on all of our parts. However, by such effective praying, you will help to facilitate the outworking of this mission. As I have told you before and will re-iterate tonight, nothing will stop the plan of Michael. But it does help that you think about these things and do what you can to see the fruition thereof. |
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| − | moral decisions. We ask that a corps of individuals with love in their
| + | Let us take a moment of silent worship for our Father before we begin tonight's meeting. |
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| − | hearts and minds be sent out into the cities, towns and rural counties
| + | Let us begin. There are many gathered here this evening, as has become customary. Your subject matter tonight, while not necessarily more important than other topics that we have discussed, nevertheless it is most important that you take heed to how you feel and what you think in |
| | + | regards to this matter. I debated whether or not I wanted to share with you our thoughts and feelings to the extent possible on this topic before we had the group participation. I decided to implement part of the characteristic of tolerance and allow you to express yourself first. |
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| − | across the 50 states of this country to work with and help these young
| + | There is much I wish to discuss, so why don't we begin with your comments; and hopefully, time will allow us to engage further. Thank you Dennis for your preparation and please initiate your discussion. |
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| − | people find love and understanding so great they may begin to build their
| + | D: Thank you Welmek. This week has been an eventful week with Thurgood Marshall graduating, one of the most eloquent and indomitable voices |
| | + | for freedom of education for all Americans. Just recently another area where tolerance is a consideration is being voiced regarding gays in the military, which is a topic we may get to yet this evening. |
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| − | lives on this foundation. We ask that this education program vary from
| + | I would like to begin, of course, with a definition of what tolerance is. There are a number of factors involved in how we would choose to |
| | + | use the term. Welmek emphasized it's one of the primary aspects of character a few weeks ago, so I would encourage someone to start the ball rolling with how they understand tolerance. |
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| − | group to group to truly meet their needs, emotionally and physically, to
| + | M: I thought about it, and I think to me tolerance, if I had to define it with other words, would be understanding, compassion, and humility. I think many times when we're tolerant of something, it's something that we consider to be negative or un-Godlike; and whether it's a person's attitude, behavior. And so I find it much more difficult to be tolerant than I do to be patient. For a long time I thought the two were similar, but I don't think they're similar at all. I think with tolerance you have to be more understanding of whatever actions you're being patient with. I think that's understanding; and after reading the Jesus papers when I was younger for the first time, it's amazing to me how tolerant Jesus was with those he came in contact with. I think he was a perfect example of tolerance, but understanding I think is what tolerance is about. |
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| − | help them to prepare themselves to live productive lives, living with
| + | J: Tolerance, to me, has something to do with not being judgmental of others; and that's one thing I always remember that Jesus always said, not to judge others and to be tolerant of that. That's a real high order, but I think it has a lot to do with not judging others. |
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| − | respect for themselves and their fellow Urantians.
| + | S: I think that it goes along with understanding no matter who it is, that people are doing the best they can. Even if their best is nowhere close to our bottom, they're still doing the best they can. |
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| | + | D: I was wondering when we talk about how tolerant one should be, to make a distinction between being tolerant for the individual and what |
| | + | their actions are. Do we want to draw the line somewhere as far as what we accept in terms of action. Does anybody have any thoughts on that line? |
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| − | We ask that these teachers be sent by whatever vehicle you have at your
| + | M: Are you suggesting that there's a distinction to be made between the identity of a person and their behavior? |
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| − | disposal, our new presidential administration, churches, schools, for
| + | D: Yes. |
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| − | profit and non-profit companies as well as other branches of government
| + | M: That is, tolerant of an individual but not necessarily are tolerant of their behavior. |
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| − | and organizations.
| + | D: Where does justice come in. At what point should we seek justice? And how would we express tolerance for that individual and yet not necessarily sanction the behavior. |
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| | + | S: Separate the action from the actor. You love the person but you hate what they do. |
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| − | Also Michael, it is our deepest hope they will become God-knowing and
| + | D: It's a difficult . .. |
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| − | God-loving.
| + | K: You could also try to understand motivation. People have a lifetime of problems. Maybe in their lives the abuser is many times abused; and that doesn't condone the action, but it helps you to understand where they are and it brings in a little bit more of a sympathetic justice. They should be punished for what they did, but at the same time let's try to help them sort out what started the problem to begin with and let's try to end the cycle. Rather than just punishing and punishing, let's do something constructive and end that cycle. |
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| | + | S: Isn't tolerance more or less an automatic response to understanding? When we don't understand someone, their behavior for example, it might be more difficult for us to be tolerant of something. But if they're giving us a negative response because they don't feel good, but we don't understand that, and when we do find out that they don't feel good, then we seem to automatically be more tolerant because we understand their position, what's eating them. |
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| − | In follow-up to two past prayers, please help clean water to flow through
| + | M: Compassion fits in there somewhere. To even have the ability to be tolerant, you have to be compassionate to some degree. |
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| − | the Somalian countryside, water for medical needs and water needed to
| + | D: What about a stranger? When we encounter a stranger that we don't really know anything about, we have established friendship where we have some knowledge and the bonds that develop through knowledge and understanding, but.. |
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| − | sustain life, whether it go the way of water trucks..but please help the
| + | S: That would take a degree of faith I guess in saying to yourself, "Well, that person's got a legitimate reason for behaving that way." |
| | + | You just don't know. |
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| − | water reach individuals who need it so amputations do not have to be done
| + | K: And also to remember that there's a fragment of God in each of us; and if you treat people with that in mind, then it's much easier to tolerate whatever they're doing. You're not condoning their actions, but you do realize that God loves that person just as much as He loves you, so it clears the picture a little bit I think. |
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| − | for individuals who are suffering from infections.
| + | M: It's definitely a different kind of tolerance when it's someone you know versus someone that you don't. There's a difference there. |
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| | + | S: It's open-mindedness too. |
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| − | Also, in the land formerly known as Yugoslavia, please impress upon the
| + | M: There's a difference when you encounter someone that's from another country and doesn't speak English. You're more tolerant of their behavior and their (?) than you are of someone that you love. |
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| − | minds of the soldiers, military officers and leaders that rape is not an
| + | D: So there's still some distance when we use the word tolerance in which you don't necessarily in an intimate relationship say, "I tolerate you." (laughter) |
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| − | acceptable way to fight a war and bring about ethnic cleansing. Please
| + | A: I think you can tolerate certain behaviors in intimate relationships, and maybe that's a real test of love too because we expect so much more from that person because we do love them. To me, tolerance is, I think of it as patience and then I think of tolerance as a step that goes beyond patience. It's like the ideal of patience comes first and tolerance is more of what Mark and Steve and Jill said all rolled into that. |
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| − | help the United Nations to broker a peace treaty that will last.
| + | L: I think what Mark said was interesting because that's how I feel about it too. I can be patient in an impersonal situation, but tolerance to me indicates that interaction with a personality; and it has love added to patience. You can have love with patience, but you don't always; and tolerance always has love. I guess compassion would come under that, understanding, kindness or whatever. |
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| | + | To me, too, it's kind of recognizing universe reality that every one of us is different and that having that respect for that difference in another person, it's not just "putting up" with that person, it's realizing that maybe some of the things you don't especially find very endearing about that person are still an expression of the Father. And this is reality. All through our universe career we're going to meet individuals that are very, very different from us. |
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| − | And above all, Michael, we ask that your Father's will be done above our
| + | This is an ongoing thing. As tolerant as we may become on this planet, we've got a lot more to do in the future. |
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| − | will in all these prayers and all these things that we ask.
| + | M: I would follow that. It seemed to me in thinking about this over the week that I drew the conclusion, and I went through all the thinking about understanding, etc., and I came up with that very conclusion, that tolerance was a genuine appreciation for diversity. If you really appreciate diversity and how wonderful this universe is in all of its diverse manifestations and personality, then that recognition in an everyday sense will necessarily result in being tolerant of people. I'm thinking back about my life and when I was a hippie weirdo and had long hair (laughter) and we all fancied ourselves very tolerant. We couldn't stand people who were intolerant. (laughter) |
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| | + | Remember those days? People who weren't tolerant, you couldn't stand them? |
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| − | It is our deepest hope that these things that we have asked for will be
| + | A: They had short hair. |
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| − | able to come about through love and through your will, Michael. Thank
| + | M: They had short hair. (laughter) It's funny how that happens, but that people are different than you and have different views than you and how distasteful they might be at some level, still there's a purpose for that; and if we only had the ability to appreciate that... |
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| − | you for listening to our prayers.
| + | K: You can flip a coin too, Marty, and someone looked at you with your long hair and thought "That hippie, he'll never amount to anything." |
| | + | And now you're an attorney. |
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| | + | M: They were right. (laughter) |
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| − | WELMEK: Greetings everyone, this is Welmek. It is always a pleasure to
| + | K: But they made judgments about you. You had long hair, you were no good. |
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| − | be in association with you. It pleases us to hear your effective
| + | M: I like what Jill said. I think the beginning, to even begin tolerance, you have to not judge because I think most people who are intolerant the first thing they do is judge. You immediately judge and then criticize or create a negative concept or view of what they're saying. That's very important. |
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| − | prayers. Each time you attempt to communicate in such a way, you do
| + | K: And people have a tendency to do that upon first introduction anyway. You size somebody up immediately, from the very beginning; you have to try to stay a little bit more open or you won't get any farther to find out what that person's really like. |
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| − | yourself as well as your brothers and sisters a great service.
| + | M: I find that it's not really different from what everybody is saying, but I'm trying to boil it down. To me, it's an attitude of loving open-mindedness. I think the open-mindedness is crucial; it tied into being judgmental. Every situation we look at we build an image based upon our own framework of experience; and we have certain expectations, certain beliefs, maybe certain stereotypes, whatever it is, and then when things don't fit that, that causes a reaction. So being able to be open-minded and realize that there's much beyond our level of experience that we don't really understand yet will tend to suspend that judgment and that's where the loving part comes in. You try to remain a little more open so you can understand them better. |
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| | + | There may come a time, because of certain actions, you might have to make a judgment on the actions, but you still can't judge their soul or spirit. You can't truly know those things. It's just that shattering. Our world is so small. We build these images, all of these concepts; and we think we understand so much, but we truly understand almost nothing. |
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| − | Your prayer for the youth is wholly consistent with the activity that is
| + | B: I think that intolerance begins with people because we're so isolate from each other. We can't get inside of each other's heads or thoughts. We can't see so that we can relate on a superficial level, but we can't get inside. People have like a religious experience or something that causes them to know a great joy, and they think, oh, this is wonderful. I have this personal pipeline to God and they think it's the only one and they don't think anyone else has one. And so they begin to feel superior, and I think this is what causes intolerance, our inability to really truly know another human being. |
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| − | currently going on amongst ourselves. There is a team called the New
| + | So tolerance begins when we realize that everyone has their own personal pipeline to God and everyone's pipeline is just as valid as anyone else's and that we know that everyone has their personal relationship with God, and they have also the God-given right to work out that relationship with God. We have no right to judge what goes on with them or what happens in their life or how they've worked it out because then we're playing God. True tolerance is when you realize that everyone has that relationship with God and everyone has the right to that relationship with God and that we have no right to judge that or to play God. |
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| − | Generation Team. It is a specific corps of instructors that have been
| + | G: But I don't think when things happen you would think about religion and this, that and the other. I'm a person that when I first meet you, I usually like or dislike you. If I dislike you, usually something comes across that there is reason for that. But if you happen to be in a place where I need to tolerate you, I'm very good at tolerating. There's times we have to tolerate, especially for family members. It's like in-laws and out-laws in your family. We tolerate those because you have to. |
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| − | designed to implement programs that will do almost exactly what you have
| + | D: I'd like to bring this point. We're talking about this problem. Another champion of Mahatma Ghandi has this quote I'd like to have Gina and Amber share with us. He championed the rights of the untouchables in India and gave them political (?) |
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| − | asked. We are wholly aware of the need for future generations follow-
| + | G: "I am a man of peace. I believe in peace. But I do not want peace at any price. I do not want peace that you find in stone. I do not |
| | + | want the peace that you find in the grave. But I do want that peace which you find embedded in the human breast which is exposed to the whole world, but which is protected from all harm by the power of the Almighty God." |
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| − | through with what we have started here over the past few years. It is
| + | A: "Let then our first act every morning be to make the following resolve for the day. I shall not fear anyone on earth. I shall fear only God. I shall not feel ill-will towards anyone. I shall not submit to injustice for anyone. I shall conquer untruth by truth, and in resisting untruth, I shall endure all suffering." |
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| − | truly deplorable to see so many of the youth of your world in such a
| + | D: Thank you Gina and Amber. Ghandi mentioned fear; and I think a lot of the intolerance that we feel is generated on fear of the unknown |
| | + | factors in an encounter, the assumptions we may make start with those patterns that are ingrained in our outlook that we carry around unconsciously for the most part. |
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| − | plight, not knowing who to love, not knowing about the Father, unsure of
| + | Maybe we could look at other triggers that bring on intolerance at this point. We've mentioned lack of understanding and fear. |
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| − | themselves and unsure of a secure future.
| + | A: I have one thought I'd like to add. When Brenda used your description, I was thinking of the opposite, a person who has a sin of pride, that lack of tolerance and that ideal of being a person who has their own private pipeline. |
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| | + | D: Mark mentioned humility as being the other side of the coin, right? |
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| − | These things, my friends, will take time to change. They take effort on
| + | B: We're talking about things that go against the grain, like jealousy? |
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| − | all of our parts. However, by such effective praying, you will help to
| + | M: I think one of the things when we become intolerant is because we are not confident in our own feelings about that issue. |
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| − | facilitate the outworking of this mission. As I have told you before
| + | B: I think a lot of times insecurity is intolerance. You meet people who are almost hyper-critical and they can't do anything, but they |
| | + | criticize everything. That's because of an insecurity, they have a real inferiority complex. |
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| − | and will re-iterate tonight, nothing will stop the plan of Michael. But
| + | L: I think it's from what perspective you relate to another or think of them. It's a real critical factor. I think if you relate only from your own life experience and try to apply your circumstances to another, I think that's where we get into the greatest problem. That causes all the other reactions that we just talked about. I think having a broader perspective which would allow people to have the option of having more cosmic perspective, you could have a broader perspective even without that, just having a more world perspective, a perspective that's beyond your own immediate environment. That's where it's hard for people who don't interact with others who are different to any great degree to have that experience because they aren't prompted by the environment to do so. It takes a greater will determination to have that attitude. |
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| − | it does help that you think about these things and do what you can to see
| + | I think it's representative of how other countries judge our population when we visit their countries. There's a mixing of people in some areas and some areas are more separate. But as far as dealing with other languages and other cultures we don't have as much of that to deal with as many countries do. We don't get the opportunity to practice it as much I think. |
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| − | the fruition thereof.
| + | S: It almost sounds like bigotry. That's what came to mind. |
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| | + | B: I think too, that people who don't relate well to other people or to situations around them sometimes try to control other people because it gives them a sense of power and a sense of controlling their own lives when they feel they have no control. That's very intolerant because they're totally blind to the fact that that other person has the right to be themselves, to live their own lives. |
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| − | Let us take a moment of silent worship for our Father before we begin
| + | L: I think tolerance takes time too. I had a rare opportunity of learning. The high school that I went to was a real cross-section of our type city, race, religion, social economics situation. And we were a class during a pretty troublesome time. I never saw us as a very united class; but there were a lot of bonds and love formed there. And at our 20-year reunion it was really amazing with the maturity of time how many people came back and talked about how important that was to them; and it was so difficult for them to duplicate what we had in high school in the world when we went out as adults, how all of us in many ways tried to do that, which was kind of exciting. |
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| − | tonight's meeting.
| + | M: Immaturity, then, plays a big factor. |
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| | + | B: And so does lack of love. A lack of love for oneself and for people and the world in general. |
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| − | Let us begin. There are many gathered here this evening, as has become
| + | D: So another source of tolerance is beyond understanding and humility, and more of a spiritual standpoint, what would you say, Brenda, is a way of achieving a proper attitude of tolerance? |
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| − | customary. Your subject matter tonight, while not necessarily more
| + | B: It starts with realizing if you do it consciously and make yourself think that this person is a child of God. He has a Father fragment within. It's like when you look at someone and you think I am you and you are me, to make yourself see this as a reality until it becomes a reality so that you can love that person, love yourself and love that person and have an appreciation for what I call the myriad faces of God. |
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| − | important than other topics that we have discussed, nevertheless it is
| + | D: What are some techniques we can use to achieve that? What comes to mind? |
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| − | most important that you take heed to how you feel and what you think in
| + | M: I think of the one where we're supposed to perceive each person as though they were Michael. Can you imagine being intolerant of Michael? |
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| − | regards to this matter. I debated whether or not I wanted to share with
| + | S: I think that perceiving those that you meet that perhaps you might find some immaturity, think of them as a little child because lack of knowledge tends to create fear and anger and intolerance. If you think of them kind of like this little child, then those things that you have trouble with then you can be more compassionate with and tolerant. |
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| − | you our thoughts and feelings to the extent possible on this topic before
| + | D: Would you say a family is helpful in learning tolerance in family situations? (laughter) Anyone want to share some experiences along |
| | + | that line? |
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| − | we had the group participation. I decided to implement part of the
| + | S: In-laws and out-laws come to mind real quick. (laughter) |
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| − | characteristic of tolerance and allow you to express yourself first.
| + | D: So a family is kind of a nucleus of the whole world. As we reach further into our family lineage... |
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| | + | A: Welmek said to me one time that even though they are in adult bodies you have to look at them as young children sometimes with their behavior. I was reading through that morontia world paper, at the very beginning it was very comforting to me. It said if God wanted to create a perfect being, He would do it and does so. That was comforting to me because that is so frustrating to try to live up to your ideals that it's kind of nice to know that you weren't created to be perfect and that there is no way you can get totally perfect in this lifetime. It helped me to lighten up a little bit. (laughter) |
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| − | There is much I wish to discuss, so why don't we begin with your
| + | M: One of my favorite quotes from the book is don't be discouraged when you realize you're human. (laughter) |
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| − | comments; and hopefully, time will allow us to engage further. Thank you
| + | S: I love that one also. You weren't made perfect, perfection is your goal. I don't remember the exact quote. |
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| − | Dennis for your preparation and please initiate your discussion.
| + | L: I think recognizing that everyone has the gift of free will from the Father is an important factor too. Sometimes we want to assert our will on others. |
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| | + | B: Along with that also, is the fact that we have to realize that people have the right to their sorrows as well as their joys. |
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| − | D: Thank you Welmek. This week has been an eventful week with Thurgood
| + | B: I know for me, when I had my first session with Welmek, he pinpointed tolerance for me to work on. I don't know why...(laughter)..so I set |
| − | | + | out to work on tolerance. Over the period of weeks I discovered myself catching myself, I'm talking mainly at work here, with people that I work with, and I'm sure we're all in a situation where you have bosses and you have associates. Over a period of weeks even, I discovered that people who were like me, that's being intolerant, and they were looking at me kind of strange-like. (laughter) But that was only an outer manifestation because inwardly I was still |
| − | Marshall graduating, one of the most eloquent and indomitable voices
| |
| − | | |
| − | for freedom of education for all Americans. Just recently another
| |
| − | | |
| − | area where tolerance is a consideration is being voiced regarding
| |
| − | | |
| − | gays in the military, which is a topic we may get to yet this
| |
| − | | |
| − | evening.
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| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | I would like to begin, of course, with a definition of what tolerance
| |
| − | | |
| − | is. There are a number of factors involved in how we would choose to
| |
| − | | |
| − | use the term. Welmek emphasized it's one of the primary aspects of
| |
| − | | |
| − | character a few weeks ago, so I would encourage someone to start the
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| − | ball rolling with how they understand tolerance.
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| − | M: I thought about it, and I think to me tolerance, if I had to define
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| − | it with other words, would be understanding, compassion, and
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| − | humility. I think many times when we're tolerant of something, it's
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| − | something that we consider to be negative or un-Godlike; and whether
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| − | it's a person's attitude, behavior. And so I find it much more
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| − | difficult to be tolerant than I do to be patient. For a long time I
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| − | thought the two were similar, but I don't think they're similar at
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| − | all. I think with tolerance you have to be more understanding of
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| − | whatever actions you're being patient with. I think that's
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| − | understanding; and after reading the Jesus papers when I was younger
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| − | for the first time, it's amazing to me how tolerant Jesus was with
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| − | those he came in contact with. I think he was a perfect example of
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| − | tolerance, but understanding I think is what tolerance is about.
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| − | | |
| − | J: Tolerance, to me, has something to do with not being judgmental of
| |
| − | | |
| − | others; and that's one thing I always remember that Jesus always
| |
| − | | |
| − | said, not to judge others and to be tolerant of that. That's a real
| |
| − | | |
| − | high order, but I think it has a lot to do with not judging others.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: I think that it goes along with understanding no matter who it is,
| |
| − | | |
| − | that people are doing the best they can. Even if their best is
| |
| − | | |
| − | nowhere close to our bottom, they're still doing the best they can.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: I was wondering when we talk about how tolerant one should be, to
| |
| − | | |
| − | make a distinction between being tolerant for the individual and what
| |
| − | | |
| − | their actions are. Do we want to draw the line somewhere as far as
| |
| − | | |
| − | what we accept in terms of action. Does anybody have any thoughts on
| |
| − | | |
| − | that line?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: Are you suggesting that there's a distinction to be made between the
| |
| − | | |
| − | identity of a person and their behavior?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: Yes.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: That is, tolerant of an individual but not necessarily are tolerant
| |
| − | | |
| − | of their behavior.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: Where does justice come in. At what point should we seek justice?
| |
| − | | |
| − | And how would we express tolerance for that individual and yet not
| |
| − | | |
| − | necessarily sanction the behavior.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: Separate the action from the actor. You love the person but you hate
| |
| − | | |
| − | what they do.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: It's a difficult . ..
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | K: You could also try to understand motivation. People have a lifetime
| |
| − | | |
| − | of problems. Maybe in their lives the abuser is many times abused;
| |
| − | | |
| − | and that doesn't condone the action, but it helps you to understand
| |
| − | | |
| − | where they are and it brings in a little bit more of a sympathetic
| |
| − | | |
| − | justice. They should be punished for what they did, but at the same
| |
| − | | |
| − | time let's try to help them sort out what started the problem to
| |
| − | | |
| − | begin with and let's try to end the cycle. Rather than just
| |
| − | | |
| − | punishing and punishing, let's do something constructive and end that
| |
| − | | |
| − | cycle.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: Isn't tolerance more or less an automatic response to understanding?
| |
| − | | |
| − | When we don't understand someone, their behavior for example, it
| |
| − | | |
| − | might be more difficult for us to be tolerant of something. But if
| |
| − | | |
| − | they're giving us a negative response because they don't feel good,
| |
| − | | |
| − | but we don't understand that, and when we do find out that they don't
| |
| − | | |
| − | feel good, then we seem to automatically be more tolerant because we
| |
| − | | |
| − | understand their position, what's eating them.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: Compassion fits in there somewhere. To even have the ability to be
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerant, you have to be compassionate to some degree.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: What about a stranger? When we encounter a stranger that we don't
| |
| − | | |
| − | really know anything about, we have established friendship where we
| |
| − | | |
| − | have some knowledge and the bonds that develop through knowledge and
| |
| − | | |
| − | understanding, but..
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: That would take a degree of faith I guess in saying to yourself,
| |
| − | | |
| − | "Well, that person's got a legitimate reason for behaving that way."
| |
| − | | |
| − | You just don't know.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | K: And also to remember that there's a fragment of God in each of us;
| |
| − | | |
| − | and if you treat people with that in mind, then it's much easier to
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerate whatever they're doing. You're not condoning their actions,
| |
| − | | |
| − | but you do realize that God loves that person just as much as He
| |
| − | | |
| − | loves you, so it clears the picture a little bit I think.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: It's definitely a different kind of tolerance when it's someone you
| |
| − | | |
| − | know versus someone that you don't. There's a difference there.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: It's open-mindedness too.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: There's a difference when you encounter someone that's from another
| |
| − | | |
| − | country and doesn't speak English. You're more tolerant of their
| |
| − | | |
| − | behavior and their (?) than you are of someone that you love.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: So there's still some distance when we use the word tolerance in
| |
| − | | |
| − | which you don't necessarily in an intimate relationship say, "I
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerate you." (laughter)
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | A: I think you can tolerate certain behaviors in intimate relationships,
| |
| − | | |
| − | and maybe that's a real test of love too because we expect so much
| |
| − | | |
| − | more from that person because we do love them. To me, tolerance is,
| |
| − | | |
| − | I think of it as patience and then I think of tolerance as a step
| |
| − | | |
| − | that goes beyond patience. It's like the ideal of patience comes
| |
| − | | |
| − | first and tolerance is more of what Mark and Steve and Jill said all
| |
| − | | |
| − | rolled into that.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | L: I think what Mark said was interesting because that's how I feel
| |
| − | | |
| − | about it too. I can be patient in an impersonal situation, but
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerance to me indicates that interaction with a personality; and it
| |
| − | | |
| − | has love added to patience. You can have love with patience, but you
| |
| − | | |
| − | don't always; and tolerance always has love. I guess compassion
| |
| − | | |
| − | would come under that, understanding, kindness or whatever.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | To me, too, it's kind of recognizing universe reality that every one
| |
| − | | |
| − | of us is different and that having that respect for that difference
| |
| − | | |
| − | in another person, it's not just "putting up" with that person, it's
| |
| − | | |
| − | realizing that maybe some of the things you don't especially find
| |
| − | | |
| − | very endearing about that person are still an expression of the
| |
| − | | |
| − | Father. And this is reality. All through our universe career we're
| |
| − | | |
| − | going to meet individuals that are very, very different from us.
| |
| − | | |
| − | This is an ongoing thing. As tolerant as we may become on this
| |
| − | | |
| − | planet, we've got a lot more to do in the future.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: I would follow that. It seemed to me in thinking about this over the
| |
| − | | |
| − | week that I drew the conclusion, and I went through all the thinking
| |
| − | | |
| − | about understanding, etc., and I came up with that very conclusion,
| |
| − | | |
| − | that tolerance was a genuine appreciation for diversity. If you
| |
| − | | |
| − | really appreciate diversity and how wonderful this universe is in all
| |
| − | | |
| − | of its diverse manifestations and personality, then that recognition
| |
| − | | |
| − | in an everyday sense will necessarily result in being tolerant of
| |
| − | | |
| − | people. I'm thinking back about my life and when I was a hippie
| |
| − | | |
| − | weirdo and had long hair (laughter) and we all fancied ourselves very
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerant. We couldn't stand people who were intolerant. (laughter)
| |
| − | | |
| − | Remember those days? People who weren't tolerant, you couldn't stand
| |
| − | | |
| − | them?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | A: They had short hair.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: They had short hair. (laughter) It's funny how that happens, but
| |
| − | | |
| − | that people are different than you and have different views than you
| |
| − | | |
| − | and how distasteful they might be at some level, still there's a
| |
| − | | |
| − | purpose for that; and if we only had the ability to appreciate
| |
| − | | |
| − | that...
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | K: You can flip a coin too, Marty, and someone looked at you with your
| |
| − | | |
| − | long hair and thought "That hippie, he'll never amount to anything."
| |
| − | | |
| − | And now you're an attorney.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: They were right. (laughter)
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | K: But they made judgments about you. You had long hair, you were no
| |
| − | | |
| − | good.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: I like what Jill said. I think the beginning, to even begin
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerance, you have to not judge because I think most people who are
| |
| − | | |
| − | intolerant the first thing they do is judge. You immediately judge
| |
| − | | |
| − | and then criticize or create a negative concept or view of what
| |
| − | | |
| − | they're saying. That's very important.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | K: And people have a tendency to do that upon first introduction anyway.
| |
| − | | |
| − | You size somebody up immediately, from the very beginning; you have
| |
| − | | |
| − | to try to stay a little bit more open or you won't get any farther to
| |
| − | | |
| − | find out what that person's really like.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: I find that it's not really different from what everybody is saying,
| |
| − | | |
| − | but I'm trying to boil it down. To me, it's an attitude of loving
| |
| − | | |
| − | open-mindedness. I think the open-mindedness is crucial; it ties
| |
| − | | |
| − | into being judgmental. Every situation we look at we build an image
| |
| − | | |
| − | based upon our own framework of experience; and we have certain
| |
| − | | |
| − | expectations, certain beliefs, maybe certain stereotypes, whatever it
| |
| − | | |
| − | is, and then when things don't fit that, that causes a reaction. So
| |
| − | | |
| − | being able to be open-minded and realize that there's much beyond our
| |
| − | | |
| − | level of experience that we don't really understand yet will tend to
| |
| − | | |
| − | suspend that judgment and that's where the loving part comes in. You
| |
| − | | |
| − | try to remain a little more open so you can understand them better.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | There may come a time, because of certain actions, you might have to
| |
| − | | |
| − | make a judgment on the actions, but you still can't judge their soul
| |
| − | | |
| − | or spirit. You can't truly know those things. It's just that
| |
| − | | |
| − | shattering. Our world is so small. We build these images, all of
| |
| − | | |
| − | these concepts; and we think we understand so much, but we truly
| |
| − | | |
| − | understand almost nothing.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: I think that intolerance begins with people because we're so isolated
| |
| − | | |
| − | from each other. We can't get inside of each other's heads or
| |
| − | | |
| − | thoughts. We can't see so that we can relate on a superficial level,
| |
| − | | |
| − | but we can't get inside. People have like a religious experience or
| |
| − | | |
| − | something that causes them to know a great joy, and they think, oh,
| |
| − | | |
| − | this is wonderful. I have this personal pipeline to God and they
| |
| − | | |
| − | think it's the only one and they don't think anyone else has one.
| |
| − | | |
| − | And so they begin to feel superior, and I think this is what causes
| |
| − | | |
| − | intolerance, our inability to really truly know another human being.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | So tolerance begins when we realize that everyone has their own
| |
| − | | |
| − | personal pipeline to God and everyone's pipeline is just as valid as
| |
| − | | |
| − | anyone else's and that we know that everyone has their personal
| |
| − | | |
| − | relationship with God, and they have also the God-given right to work
| |
| − | | |
| − | out that relationship with God. We have no right to judge what goes
| |
| − | | |
| − | on with them or what happens in their life or how they've worked it
| |
| − | | |
| − | out because then we're playing God. True tolerance is when you
| |
| − | | |
| − | realize that everyone has that relationship with God and everyone has
| |
| − | | |
| − | the right to that relationship with God and that we have no right to
| |
| − | | |
| − | judge that or to play God.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | G: But I don't think when things happen you would think about religion
| |
| − | | |
| − | and this, that and the other. I'm a person that when I first meet
| |
| − | | |
| − | you, I usually like or dislike you. If I dislike you, usually
| |
| − | | |
| − | something comes across that there is reason for that. But if you
| |
| − | | |
| − | happen to be in a place where I need to tolerate you, I'm very good
| |
| − | | |
| − | at tolerating. There's times we have to tolerate, especially for
| |
| − | | |
| − | family members. It's like in-laws and out-laws in your family. We
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerate those because you have to.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: I'd like to bring this point. We're talking about this problem.
| |
| − | | |
| − | Another champion of Mahatma Ghandi has this quote I'd like to have
| |
| − | | |
| − | Gina and Amber share with us. He championed the rights of the
| |
| − | | |
| − | untouchables in India and gave them political (?)
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | G: "I am a man of peace. I believe in peace. But I do not want peace
| |
| − | | |
| − | at any price. I do not want peace that you find in stone. I do not
| |
| − | | |
| − | want the peace that you find in the grave. But I do want that peace
| |
| − | | |
| − | which you find embedded in the human breast which is exposed to the
| |
| − | | |
| − | whole world, but which is protected from all harm by the power of the
| |
| − | | |
| − | Almighty God."
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | A: "Let then our first act every morning be to make the following
| |
| − | | |
| − | resolve for the day. I shall not fear anyone on earth. I shall fear
| |
| − | | |
| − | only God. I shall not feel ill-will towards anyone. I shall not
| |
| − | | |
| − | submit to injustice for anyone. I shall conquer untruth by truth,
| |
| − | | |
| − | and in resisting untruth, I shall endure all suffering."
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: Thank you Gina and Amber. Ghandi mentioned fear; and I think a lot
| |
| − | | |
| − | of the intolerance that we feel is generated on fear of the unknown
| |
| − | | |
| − | factors in an encounter, the assumptions we may make start with those
| |
| − | | |
| − | patterns that are ingrained in our outlook that we carry around
| |
| − | | |
| − | unconsciously for the most part.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | Maybe we could look at other triggers that bring on intolerance at
| |
| − | | |
| − | this point. We've mentioned lack of understanding and fear.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | A: I have one thought I'd like to add. When Brenda used your
| |
| − | | |
| − | description, I was thinking of the opposite, a person who has a sin
| |
| − | | |
| − | of pride, that lack of tolerance and that ideal of being a person who
| |
| − | | |
| − | has their own private pipeline.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: Mark mentioned humility as being the other side of the coin, right?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: We're talking about things that go against the grain, like jealousy?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: I think one of the things when we become intolerant is because we are
| |
| − | | |
| − | not confident in our own feelings about that issue.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: I think a lot of times insecurity is intolerance. You meet people
| |
| − | | |
| − | who are almost hyper-critical and they can't do anything, but they
| |
| − | | |
| − | criticize everything. That's because of an insecurity, they have a
| |
| − | | |
| − | real inferiority complex.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | L: I think it's from what perspective you relate to another or think of
| |
| − | | |
| − | them. It's a real critical factor. I think if you relate only from
| |
| − | | |
| − | your own life experience and try to apply your circumstances to
| |
| − | | |
| − | another, I think that's where we get into the greatest problem. That
| |
| − | | |
| − | causes all the other reactions that we just talked about. I think
| |
| − | | |
| − | having a broader perspective which would allow people to have the
| |
| − | | |
| − | option of having more cosmic perspective, you could have a broader
| |
| − | | |
| − | perspective even without that, just having a more world perspective,
| |
| − | | |
| − | a perspective that's beyond your own immediate environment. That's
| |
| − | | |
| − | where it's hard for people who don't interact with others who are
| |
| − | | |
| − | different to any great degree to have that experience because they
| |
| − | | |
| − | aren't prompted by the environment to do so. It takes a greater will
| |
| − | | |
| − | determination to have that attitude.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | I think it's representative of how other countries judge our
| |
| − | | |
| − | population when we visit their countries. There's a mixing of
| |
| − | | |
| − | people in some areas and some areas are more separate. But as far as
| |
| − | | |
| − | dealing with other languages and other cultures we don't have as much
| |
| − | | |
| − | of that to deal with as many countries do. We don't get the
| |
| − | | |
| − | opportunity to practice it as much I think.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: It almost sounds like bigotry. That's what came to mind.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: I think too, that people who don't relate well to other people or to
| |
| − | | |
| − | situations around them sometimes try to control other people because
| |
| − | | |
| − | it gives them a sense of power and a sense of controlling their own
| |
| − | | |
| − | lives when they feel they have no control. That's very intolerant
| |
| − | | |
| − | because they're totally blind to the fact that that other person has
| |
| − | | |
| − | the right to be themselves, to live their own lives.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | L: I think tolerance takes time too. I had a rare opportunity of
| |
| − | | |
| − | learning. The high school that I went to was a real cross-section of
| |
| − | | |
| − | our type city, race, religion, social economics situation. And we
| |
| − | | |
| − | were a class during a pretty troublesome time. I never saw us as a
| |
| − | | |
| − | very united class; but there were a lot of bonds and love formed
| |
| − | | |
| − | there. And at our 20-year reunion it was really amazing with the
| |
| − | | |
| − | maturity of time how many people came back and talked about how
| |
| − | | |
| − | important that was to them; and it was so difficult for them to
| |
| − | | |
| − | duplicate what we had in high school in the world when we went out as
| |
| − | | |
| − | adults, how all of us in many ways tried to do that, which was kind
| |
| − | | |
| − | of exciting.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: Immaturity, then, plays a big factor.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: And so does lack of love. A lack of love for oneself and for people
| |
| − | | |
| − | and the world in general.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: So another source of tolerance is beyond understanding and humility,
| |
| − | | |
| − | and more of a spiritual standpoint, what would you say, Brenda, is a
| |
| − | | |
| − | way of achieving a proper attitude of tolerance?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: It starts with realizing if you do it consciously and make yourself
| |
| − | | |
| − | think that this person is a child of God. He has a Father fragment
| |
| − | | |
| − | within. It's like when you look at someone and you think I am you
| |
| − | | |
| − | and you are me, to make yourself see this as a reality until it
| |
| − | | |
| − | becomes a reality so that you can love that person, love yourself and
| |
| − | | |
| − | love that person and have an appreciation for what I call the myriad
| |
| − | | |
| − | faces of God.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: What are some techniques we can use to achieve that? What comes to
| |
| − | | |
| − | mind?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: I think of the one where we're supposed to perceive each person as
| |
| − | | |
| − | though they were Michael. Can you imagine being intolerant of
| |
| − | | |
| − | Michael?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: I think that perceiving those that you meet that perhaps you might
| |
| − | | |
| − | find some immaturity, think of them as a little child because lack of
| |
| − | | |
| − | knowledge tends to create fear and anger and intolerance. If you
| |
| − | | |
| − | think of them kind of like this little child, then those things that
| |
| − | | |
| − | you have trouble with then you can be more compassionate with and
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerant.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: Would you say a family is helpful in learning tolerance in family
| |
| − | | |
| − | situations? (laughter) Anyone want to share some experiences along
| |
| − | | |
| − | that line?
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: In-laws and out-laws come to mind real quick. (laughter)
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | D: So a family is kind of a nucleus of the whole world. As we reach
| |
| − | | |
| − | further into our family lineage...
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | A: Welmek said to me one time that even though they are in adult bodies
| |
| − | | |
| − | you have to look at them as young children sometimes with their
| |
| − | | |
| − | behavior. I was reading through that morontia world paper, at the
| |
| − | | |
| − | very beginning it was very comforting to me. It said if God wanted
| |
| − | | |
| − | to create a perfect being, He would do it and does so. That was
| |
| − | | |
| − | comforting to me because that is so frustrating to try to live up to
| |
| − | | |
| − | your ideals that it's kind of nice to know that you weren't created
| |
| − | | |
| − | to be perfect and that there is no way you can get totally perfect in
| |
| − | | |
| − | this lifetime. It helped me to lighten up a little bit. (laughter)
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | M: One of my favorite quotes from the book is don't be discouraged when
| |
| − | | |
| − | you realize you're human. (laughter)
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | S: I love that one also. You weren't made perfect, perfection is your
| |
| − | | |
| − | goal. I don't remember the exact quote.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | L: I think recognizing that everyone has the gift of free will from the
| |
| − | | |
| − | Father is an important factor too. Sometimes we want to assert our
| |
| − | | |
| − | will on others.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: Along with that also, is the fact that we have to realize that people
| |
| − | | |
| − | have the right to their sorrows as well as their joys.
| |
| − | | |
| − | | |
| − | B: I know for me, when I had my first session with Welmek, he pinpointed
| |
| − | | |
| − | tolerance for me to work on. I don't know why...(laughter)..so I set
| |
| − | | |
| − | out to work on tolerance. Over the period of weeks I discovered
| |
| − | | |
| − | myself catching myself, I'm talking mainly at work here, with people
| |
| − | | |
| − | that I work with, and I'm sure we're all in a situation where you
| |
| − | | |
| − | have bosses and you have associates. Over a period of weeks even, I
| |
| − | | |
| − | discovered that people who were like me, that's being intolerant, and
| |
| − | | |
| − | they were looking at me kind of strange-like. (laughter) But that
| |
| − | | |
| − | was only an outer manifestation because inwardly I was still
| |
| | | | |
| | churning. It's just that I wasn't expressing it outwardly. | | churning. It's just that I wasn't expressing it outwardly. |
| Line 3,608: |
Line 2,956: |
| | GROUP: Thanks...good night. | | GROUP: Thanks...good night. |
| | | | |
| − | END
| + | [[Category: The Teaching Mission: Dialogues]] |
| | + | [[Category: Rio Rancho TeaM]] |
| | + | [[Category: Tomas]] |
| | + | [[Category: Anatolia]] |
| | + | [[Category: Gerdean]] |
| | + | [[Category: Matthew]] |
| | + | [[Category: 2004]] |