1983-07-20-Morontia Companion "Doc"

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Topic: Morontia Companion "Doc"

Group: At Large


Teacher: 0802-AB-Jack, Mighty Messenger

Contact Personality: Alan



Alan: -- our guest from the seventh Mansion World. Why don't I just go ahead and let him talk with you.

Karen: Great.

Tom: Sounds good to me.

DOC: Good evening, Karen. Good evening, Tom. You may just call me "Doc" if you wish. I think that I have run out of humility; I don't know how to follow the introductions that I have already received. How are you this evening?

Karen: Fine, thank you.

DOC: It's nice to have you here. I've looked forward to this visit for several days now. Tom, how are you?

Tom: Fine.

Doc: Very good. Well, do you have any questions?

Karen: I do. I have a number of questions. They are pre-programmed questions as a result of our HA course that we take with Jack. Unfortunately, I didn't prepare to ask the questions of you. I'm delighted to meet you, of course, but I wasn't prepared to ask questions. I did enjoy the commentary, though, about how you call our position "solemn" when we deal with people who have not yet made the decision, as I understood it, as it was relayed to me, I found that very gracious. Very humbling. Thank you for that compliment.

Tom: Is there anything you'd like to say before the questions start?

DOC: Well, perhaps it would be well for me to give my own little introduction here so that there is no question in Karen's mind as to from whence I hail and what my specific jobs are. Number one, I am a Morontia Companion and a teacher. My primary residence is the seventh mansion world and I do a great deal of my teaching and my companion work on the seventh mansion world however I do go to other mansion worlds when the necessity arises.

I do have teacher-students that work under my tutelage on the first mansion world and other areas such as that. I have been granted special permission to come through this channel and to visit this planet. This is my very first visit to a material planet, to a nativity planet as such and I can't begin to tell you the things that I've learned. I understand that both Tom and Alan told you of my conversation with them the other night when I said that this is the very first time in my long, long, long experience in ever working with anybody who has not made the decision. This is the reference to which you just made. Say hello to them.

This is indeed a solemn responsibility. I marvel at your courage on this planet. This dense material environment. Sometimes I jokingly say to Jack when we're having our little briefings, I jokingly say, "Well, is my shield of armor in good order? I am about to commence," and here you are, unseeing, unknowing, believers in this jungle and I find it fascinating. This is an experience that I will carry with me for the rest of my eternity. I hope, I pray that there will be at my disposal proper channels and methods and means of communication for me to share this knowledge with my fellow companions on the mansion worlds. I am eternally grateful for this opportunity. If there is anything I can do to help, please do not hesitate to ask. Do you understand?

Tom: Yes.

Karen: Yes, I think I follow that.

DOC: Are there any questions please?

Tom: Karen is the one with the questions.

Karen: Well, if you don't mind, I'll touch on the subjects that I —

DOC: Please.

Karen: All right. Here's a question that I asked myself today: — I'm not sure it's phrased right. Maybe you can read between the lines. Jack sometimes refers to reading our minds; whether he does or not, I don't know. But the question is — How do I get over the belief that often I know how a person should behave? How do I get over the feeling that — How do I get over the need to help direct other people's lives'. Or is that something I should get over?

DOC: When you begin to experience for yourself the need for Christ to direct your life, then you will know how to translate this into your question. When you can turn your life over to Jesus Christ, over to your TA, then you will know how to give this same freedom to your fellow man. I have no other way to tell you. Now, there are a lot of little tricks, secrets and keys to unlock these storehouses of information that will help. As difficult as the acknowledgement of the words might be: ego ... compulsions to direct … compulsions to look good … compulsions to be in charge. All of these things are compensatory for a feeling of inadequacy, for lack of inner self-esteem. This is basic, fundamental stuff we talk about.

The mind of Christ. If you would take on the mind of Christ -- because obviously your mind is not sufficient at this time to handle this problem, hence you would not be asking the question, so -- and this is not a negative. This is a positive, and I am responding to your question in the most positive manner I could. If there is a problem and you recognize the problem, then you are saying, I am not capable; I do not have the mind to make these decisions, to make these differentiations, to solve these problems. Therefore I ask for the mind of Christ to take over. And it is done. You do believe don't you?

Karen: Yes, I do believe.

DOC: Very good. Next question.

Karen: It is not very astute to ignore the adjutant mind spirit one, the spirit of instinct, which is the self-preservation instinct, yet we mortals continue to do that. When, if ever, ought we look to their background? As does the Supreme Being look to our background? Does the question make any sense?

DOC: I think that I understand your question to this extent— now, correct me if I'm wrong, If I haven't grasped the full impact of your statement, or your question -- What you're asking in effect is: Do I dare peek behind the curtain?

Karen: No. No, excuse me, I don't think you understood my question.

DOC: I understand your question to this extent: do— should I or should I not look at the history of the people involved?

Karen: Should I not take into consideration their retardations, their racial traits, their—

DOC: Exactly. Peek behind the curtain.

Karen: So I should look, give the whole scope, understanding then why people behave they do, knowing they can't help the way they behave? Even if it interferes with our independent self-preservation instinct?

DOC: Your independent self-preservation instinct, when it is liberated by the spirit, cannot in any way be retarded or contained or imprisoned by the ignorance or retardation of another human being, or a group of human beings.

Karen: No, it can't. It really can't. It's just something that we mindally experience.

DOC: If you want to be involved in that, yes, but with the blink of an eye you can transcend it; with insight, with cosmic insight you can transcend it. Yes. The answer to your question is yes. In order to understand your fellow man, you have to have all the facts at your disposal that you possibly can. You have to look at everything; look under every bush, every rock, every tree, behind every curtain, under every bed, in every closet, everywhere. Wherever it is necessary to go to discover your fellow man.

Now, you're not doing this to pass judgment on him; you're not doing this, as they say in AA, to take his inventory. You're doing it for understanding. God chooses and judges your motivations here, your intent.

Karen: Well, I'm glad that we may do that, because I do do that.

Doc: God judges your intent. We don't search out the gray crevices of a person's soul or heart in order to blackmail him.

Karen: No, we don't.

Doc: In order to hold ourselves superior to them. That isn't why we do that. We do that so that we may gain insight into their needs. That's how we learn to love them.

Karen: And be companionable.

DOC: How do I know what your needs are if I haven't looked at you? How do I know what your needs are, Tom, if I haven't looked at you? How do I know what Alan's needs are if I don't look at him? Therefore how do I know what is the best thing for me to say? What is the best thing for me to share with you this evening, if I haven't looked? Can you answer the question?

Tom: Not I.

DOC: The question is answered, isn't it?

Karen: It's a rhetorical question.

DOC: It's a rhetorical question.

Tom: What's a rhetorical question?

Karen: It doesn't require an answer.

DOC: It's an attention-getter. Yes.

Karen: I'm sorry. I don't have any more prepared questions. I had thought of several in the shower but by the time I got dry, I had forgotten them.

DOC: Tom, do you have any questions?

Tom: Not particularly, no. I was wondering if you had anything you want to talk to us about? Human Associations?

Karen: Sharing of knowledge or diplomacy? And philosophy, too.

DOC: I had asked myself earlier if this wouldn't be a good time this evening for me to talk about this business about being born again because it certainly has a lot to do with Human Associations. It certainly has a lot to do with philosophy and with spirituality, religious growth, spiritual growth, understanding -- all of these things -- and at the same time, the sharing of knowledge. And then I— the more I thought about it, the more I felt that, yes, indeed, that is a good idea but I don't know if I should make this presentation or if I should have a friend of mine make it... this presentation this evening. I decided on the latter, that I would have my friend make this presentation. If you would like to — for me to share a fellow sojourner, I will, who has kindly consented to discuss this business of being born again, born of the spirit. Would you be interested in this conversation?

Karen: I'd like that.

Tom: Very much.

[Long pause]

VOICE: I apologize for the delay. [Another long pause] Gratefully we acknowledge the opportunity to make contact with you. [Pause]

Tom: Who are you?

VOICE: There seems to be some minor difficulty with the channel. [Pause] I have been advised that when we deal with these situations, with a channel like this, if we come in with too much power, we have to either reduce the flow of energy or we have to increase the flow of energy in the channel. I have been utilized before on this planet in this capacity but I am not at liberty to say when, with whom or where. I extend greetings and I have the great honor of carrying the banner of Michael. It is with a great deal of love that I enter your environment and also a great deal of gratitude that I am able to impart whatever knowledge that I may have regarding the subject that you seem to want to discuss this evening.

I am a Mighty Messenger. My classification, my credentials, are best spoken for, you can read about me in your revelation. Before I start are there any questions you would like to ask me?

Tom: Not I.

Karen: No, I have no questions.

MESSENGER: Welcome, Karen, Tom.

Tom: If we think of one as we go along, is it okay to interrupt you, or...?

MESSENGER: Yes. I have no objection to that. We seem to have the channel under control now. There shouldn't be any difficulty. I would like to start by asking you a few questions.

Karen: Good.

MESSENGER: Would you like to volunteer and give me your conception of what it means when we use the term rebirth, born of the spirit?

Karen: My conception of what it means to you?


Karen: To me it means giving my life to God, trusting to Him my care and keeping. Growing in cosmic insight, being aware of God being active in my life and hoping for it in my fellows --working for it, as well, if possible. That's what being reborn means to me.

Tom: To me it means that the cosmic — that you are achieving a cosmic mind and that all things old are become new. All of the old ideas and the bullshit that was the old person is all totally wiped out if you are born of the spirit; that's my conception of it. That the mind of Christ has taken over, or is dominating, or is at least trying if that is the will of the person, for the mind of — or the cosmic mind to dominate.

MESSENGER: If we could put your two conceptions together and make one package, we would be close to the truth. Embodied in that statement each one of your individual attitudes and conceptions is the essence of everything that I would say tonight. I can't emphasize strongly enough, if you could think in terms of a metamorphosis of a caterpillar becoming the moth.

Now frequently — it's my understanding and I have had the opportunity to observe this on your planet — this process of rebirth gets misconstrued and gets misunderstood and people literally go about changing their identities. I know that my friend, I believe he has introduced himself as "Doc" to you, has discussed this with you in terms of mental health and things like this. It would be exceedingly awkward for this channel, for Alan, to take on the personalities of the people that came through him. There's absolutely no way that he could impart my presence and not take on certain characteristics, as colored and as materially influenced would be as they are, still he takes this on, but it is happening under a very controlled circumstance, situation, a controlled set of conditions.

Now if he were to be reborn of the spirit and not be in a controlled environment or not have the good mental capacity or have followed the good directions of his Thought Adjuster, he could very easily go through a process of changing identities, new identities, changing names, things like these, which of course happens on the mansion world. But when our TA tries to tell us that we are going to go through this metamorphosis and that this metamorphosis will start right here, can start right here on the planet, we have a tendency sometimes to want to become something that we're not.

Now, what I'm getting at is that we don't allow ourselves to rush in where angels fear to tread. If indeed we have given our lives over to the care of God, if indeed we have asked for the mind of Christ, and if indeed we pray for these changes, these metamorphic conditions to take place, then we must allow them to take place as naturally as possible.

Here is where discretion comes in. Here is where the mind of Christ has to really work, where the Spirit of Truth has to be operable in our lives. There is a great deal of potential danger in this day and age in this very thing, this very commandment — and I know your revelation talks in terms of many strange "isms' that arise as a result of garbled communications with our Thought Adjuster.

Now I know that you didn't expect me to start out talking about this, and I know you've been wondering why, what does this have to do with the ideal of it. I mention it because it's a good time to be cautious. It's a good time to grow and evolve and go through your metamorphosis as naturally as you possibly can, praying always that the will of God be done. Now, taking the ideal, the work that you do, the groundwork that you lay, is acknowledging the presence of God in your life, in your mind, your Thought Adjuster, in your mind.

The kingdom of heaven is within. This is where the inner creative life takes place. This is the beginning of it, right here at this acknowledgement that you are a child of God. Now what you're saying, then, is "God is my parent. God will raise me in his image. God will raise me and spew me out upon the shores the adult that he chooses me to be." There's where the metamorphic change takes place; there's where the wisdom comes in; there is where the spiritual maturity takes place. Each step of the way, slowly but surely, allowing God your father, God your mother, to mold you from the infant through the teenage years to adulthood, to adult maturity, spiritual maturity.

If you were on a normal evolutionary planet at this time you would be close to fusion. At this time, if you were on a normal evolutionary world, the chances of your being able to fuse on this planet would be very great, but since you are not on a normal evolutionary world unless you were in an area where you would not do any damage, it would be awkward for you to fuse here, so you are going to be taken somewhere else to fuse. And this is the only thing that the act of death has anything to do with.

So to be born again, to be born of the spirit, is to take what I am, what I have, what I was, what I represent and all of my potential; everything that I was, everything that I am, and everything that I am to be, and reconstruct me. Give me new ears, ears to hear; give me new eyes, eyes to see; give me a new heart to love and to receive love and to give love; give me a new mind so that I do not crystallize, so that I do not have difficulty with my metamorphosis, so that I do not have difficulty in my understanding, in my growth, and in my relationship with my heavenly parents.

It does me absolutely no good to go to my Father's school, or to go to my Father's business, or go to my Father's warehouse and not know what is going on there. The only way I can understand what is going on there is to seek for the information, to seek for guidance, to seek for knowledge. I ask. In some cases, such as this, you are fortunate because you are being given information almost unasked. There is a price to pay. There is a big price to pay. The price for which you are willing to give all that you have.

Now what is this all that you have? Your prejudices, your bigotries, your ignorance, your egos, your bravura, your self-seeking, your grandiosity, your pride, your selfishness, your self-centeredness. All those things you can think of. Your sense of revenge. If you can give all of that, including your well-founded, well-thought-out, well-cherished conceits, intellectualizations, pride of mind, your concepts, all of these things, if you can give them all, give them all; your health, your dependencies, your compulsions, your neuroses, your anxieties, your fears, your emotional instabilities, all of them, all of them. You give them all willingly, joyfully, happily, for which you receive more than you ever bargained for.

That is truly being reborn. You simply say, "I am your child. You are my parents. You raise me. You teach me to think. You teach me how to behave. You teach me values. You teach me ideals. You direct my feet on the correct path. You show me what you want me to learn. You take me to the libraries of your choosing, you take me to the fields of experience of your choice."

It is your destiny. If you can just remember that each and every one of you, your Thought Adjusters came with a destiny for you, a pattern for you, a pattern for you totally unlike any other. I have to qualify that statement because of the "soul mates" here, this peculiar, unusual circumstance, but you understand what I am saying. It is absolutely unique. He came pre-destined. You are pre-destined if you will just (inaudible).

There is no reason why, with the tools at your disposal, why you cannot get as close to fusion with your Thought Adjusters while you are still here on the planet Urantia before you go. Does that sound like a far-out goal? Does that sound like bribery? Spiritual bribery? Perhaps. It depends upon how you look at it.

Karen: Sounds like a prayer to me.

MESSENGER: What we have — what we have here is the opportunity to prepare for the next age. The next age on this planet is soon to be heralded in. We are doing everything we can to bridge the gap of communications and Jack has talked to you about this. The doctor has talked to you about this. This is one way we can bridge this gap in the communication systems.

We do operate over the Archangels circuit. This is exactly how this operates. You have been told that and I will tell it to you in my manner. We are making preparations. We are doing everything we can with the permission of the Most Highs to get his planet.... All we have to do is just move it a little bit on its axis.

Now, the other night my friend the doctor talked to these two young gentlemen about spiritual power. There is no real spiritual power unless you have been born again, born of the spirit, unless you give all that you have to receive more than you had. This spiritual power is the type of power that can literally change your environment. Your environment starts where?

Tom: Here.

MESSENGER: Where is "here"?

Tom: In us.

MESSENGER: Exactly. In the individual first. When this occurs we are acknowledging the presence of healing. All compulsions disappear. All physical illnesses will disappear. We're talking about good physical health. We're talking about good mental health. We're talking about good emotional health. Psychic health. The healing starts within. The environment, the power, the spiritual power starts within. Now from here it evolves where?

Tom: Outside into our—

MESSENGER: Outside into our...?

Tom: Environment.

MESSENGER: Environment. Good student. Now where is our immediate environment?

Karen: The arena.

MESSENGER: And where is the most immediate arena?

Karen: The home.

MESSENGER: Exactly. And those that around or in the home. That is the beginning of the socialization — the beginning of the brotherhood. That is the beginning of [inaudible]. As this power starts to evolve and as this power becomes stronger and

stronger, it now has enough power to go outside the home and go out into.. .?

Karen: Society.

MESSENGER: Society. And normally it goes first into where?

Tom: Work.

Karen: Work.

MESSENGER: Our work. Of course. If you will take just a moment— and I know the doctor took Tom through this exercise the other night, so Karen — Tom, perhaps you can help her — if you can just put your antenna out right now, put it out into the immediate environment, feel, sense the environment, you should feel the power. You should feel the electricity, you should feel the currents and I'm speaking literally.

Karen: Yes.

MESSENGER: Once you get the feeling of that and you can feel it changing, you should feel the -- I know it's an overworked word — the vibration of it, you can sense it, then you have a frame of reference, and once you had this frame of reference you now have had a signpost from which you can always operate. You should be able to sense that power in every environment you move into.

All of these things happen after — cause and effect — the effect from the cause causes the rebirth. Do you have any questions?

Tom: Does this power radiate for long distances?

MESSENGER: Yes. Longer than you can measure.

Tom: Yeah?

Karen: It feels peaceful. It's not conducive to compulsions.

MESSENGER:It's not conducive to negativity. It's not conducive to illnesses.

Karen: Harmonious.

Tom: Yeah, harmonious.

MESSENGER:Yes, this — it's the old business of two heads are better than one, three heads are better than two, and the added additive of power — the addition of power. Another reason why Christ sent them out two and two. Not only that, of course. As the revelation mentions, the philosopher Rodan talks about it. It's also a hedge against potential evil because two people can always, if they are sharing properly, can always counterbalance. Their sharing their knowledge will help error. Error is potential evil. Religious ego is error.

Karen: But I still don't know what to do about my car.

Tom: Your what?

Karen: My car. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt with that blurp.

MESSENGER: Well, these are material considerations.

Karen: Indeed.

MESSENGER: As strange as it may sound, they're not to be sneered at. Again, the answer is a spiritual answer -- a reflective, meditative answer. Give the car to Jesus Christ. Maybe He will give you an ass in return.

Karen: That's fine.

Tom: That's a good idea.

MESSENGER: Are there any questions?

Tom: The main interferers in this — say, if you were reborn and you really did give everything you had, it would be an error to start taking it back. Once you start receiving more, it seems very easy to —

Karen: Presume upon Divine mercy.

Tom: No, it's our egos get back involved again. Then you start putting it back upon yourself. I did this, I got this, I got this, so you're actually taking it back. Are you being reborn back into your old self?

MESSENGER: No, you're not being reborn back into your old self. You're just hanging on to some of the old crap. You simply have to remember. I think my friend the doctor would probably use such word as being "reconditioned" — the time for reconditioning that it takes, words like this. I don't deal in that kind of approach. That's not my bailey-wick. I don't do that, but I think these are the kinds of things he would talk about. Until such time as it is totally eradicated. Your friend the doctor talked about the mixed signals...?

Tom: Uh-huh.

MESSENGER: Well, you see, you have the old and you have the new. Until it becomes all new, you're still going to have mixed signals — old signals, aren't you?

Tom: Yeah.

MESSENGER: What happens is you get mixed signals because you've got dual signals coming up. What happens is as you become more and more and more and more, these become less and less and less and less. Diminishing. The only way you ever recognize that the old is pounding itself back into your consciousness is because you are looking with new eyes or you wouldn't see it. Do you understand that one?

Tom: No.

Karen: Yes.

MESSENGER: This is why questioning is good. Why going through a certain amount of the crazies, or the conflicts that take place, because of this. Duality of signals is good because you don't — like our friend the doctor talked about, it's like death, or waking up on the Mansion Worlds. You do not wake up spiritually whole. You still have all that evolution yet to do. But you did wake up reborn on the Mansion World, right?

Tom: Yep.

MESSENGER: That's what's important.

Tom: That concept you just brought across about the diminishing old, is proportional to becoming the new, is that also the same concept as the diminishing of the Adjutant Mind Spirits, as the Spirit of Truth? Or as the spiritual growth increases, the mind—

MESSENGER: The closer you get, the-- Yes. The answer to your question is absolutely yes. The closer you come to uniting with your Thought Adjuster, the less the Adjutant Mind Spirits are an influence. Every time I have been made aware of the spiritual experiences that you — every time you have this spiritual experience as a result of a decision that you made and the Thought Adjuster is coming this say. The Thought Adjuster has taken on that experience with you. Therefore, the Thought Adjuster takes on that portion of the personality that made that decision, who had that experience. So to that extent, whatever that may amount to in time and space, you and your Thought Adjuster have united, you have fused. The more of those you have, they compound and compound and compound and compound, the more the Thought Adjuster is taking you on, the more you are becoming your Thought Adjuster, the more you fuse, the more you fuse, the more you fuse, the more you fuse....

Tom: 'Til suddenly: Pfsssst!

MESSENGER: Yes, until you are one.

Tom: In every single area.

MESSENGER: Yes. So as that occurs there are no longer those needs for the seven adjutant mind spirits. There's more—

Karen: More spirit and even less mind. We don't even need the wisdom that much.

MESSENGER: At that point. Because now you have taken on not only the cosmic mind, but God's mind.

Tom: Then we can graduate.

MESSENGER: Then you start graduations

Tom: Do we get a diploma?

MESSENGER: You sure do. You can hang it on the wall.

Karen: Diploma of dismissal of the seven adjutant mind spirits when we become all-wise.

Tom: Wonderful.

MESSENGER: You can carry it through the streets of Jerusalem on your ass.

Karen: Don't mind if I do.

Tom: Do we become Doctors of Divinity?

MESSENGER: Absolutely.

Karen: I surely do want to thank you for leading us in prayer.


Tom: Where do you come from?

MESSENGER: I'm temporarily stationed on the planet.

Tom: Do you use this energy -- the spiritual energy that we can sense here, is that a means of your transportation?

MESSENGER: It's a means of my transmittal. At first we had to up-step the channel and downstep our selves.

Karen: I'm concerned that the channel is going to be spent. , Is he all right?


Karen: Taking in energy.

MESSENGER: He's taking in a lot of energy. This cannot operate and function the way it does without receiving special attention. He's being administered to in a way which you just have no conception of. It would be impossible for me to impart that knowledge to you at this point. Maybe Jack can tell you something about it; I don't know if he wants to get involved in all that, but maybe someday [inaudible].

Primarily, Tom, I operate on, in and through the planet [inaudible]. None of us can come on this planet without permission. We can't land on the landing field. This is a quarantined planet. This is like your getting into the YDC. You can't get through the gate without permission. I cannot, no matter what message I have, I cannot come through this channel without permission. This channel is highly controlled. It's also for all your protection. We are not going to experience insanities — mind disruptions. We won't have it; his Thought Adjuster won't allow it. His Thought Adjuster is very, very active.

So it wouldn't matter.

I'm at the very moment being told the other night you asked if Jesus Christ could speak through this channel. Well, I can assure you Jesus Christ cannot speak through this channel without—

Karen: Irreparable damage!

MESSENGER: —without mutual consent of His Father.

Tom: Whew.

MESSENGER: The Father of his Thought Adjuster. The power alone could blow the mind circuits of this channel.

Tom: Do you feel that we will ever get to the point — spiritually advance to the point that he could?

MESSENGER: It would depend upon the channel. I can't say that. I don't know—

Tom: Is it humanly possible?


Tom: Good. [Laughter] Something to work for.

MESSENGER: Just look at the record.

Tom: Just look at the record?


Karen: He was here in human form. Is that the record you make reference to?


Karen: Who's your boss? Besides Our Father? There is a hierarchy. Is there a society of messengers?

MESSENGER: Yes, of course. Because I'm stationed on this planet, temporarily, I work with the Melchizedek receivers and the 24 councilors.

Tom: Can you — are you going to be visiting us more often? Or is this just a one-shot...?

MESSENGER:Well, I was in the vicinity and I was kind of looking in. My friend asked me if I would like to come through and I said, "Well, certainly, of course, I would love to." These opportunities are rare and they're always a fine experience —lesson for us.

[Inaudible dialog]

Karen: [Something about] personality.

MESSENGER: Personality is always recognizable throughout the universe unless you choose for annihilation. If you choose to turn your back on it, then your personality would be disintegrated. Otherwise personality is always recognizable — from here all the way to the shores of Paradise, in front of your Heavenly Father and beyond.

Karen: What do the 24 councilors think of this communications channel?

MESSENGER: I'm glad you asked the question. They're of the opinion that these things are all well and good providing … and it's like everything. There is a price to pay. [Pause] Provisio? [Pause] Well, I anticipated that you would say, "Well, what is the price? The price, since you didn't ask, the price is what you're going to do with it. So if there's any indication that this is going to be used for self-aggrandizement or for— selfishly and —-

Karen: —isn't productively put to use

MESSENGER: — it will cease.

Karen: I understand that.

MESSENGER: Otherwise it's a toy.

Karen: I think I for one did not ask what the price is because it just reminds me, poignantly, of my responsibilities and I'm aware of my responsibilities, but--

MESSENGER: The burden is light.

Karen: I know. But intellectually, you know, it's an awesome responsibility.

MESSENGER: That's true as long as you have yourself in the way.

Karen: I know.

MESSENGER: It's the message that's important, not the messenger.

Karen: I understand, that.

MESSENGER: And it's true you can do two things at once.

Tom: Have we demonstrated any reason for having, causing damage to the channel — to cut it off?

MESSENGER: No, you certainly haven't. To date, not — no, rest assured. There are all kinds of guides and censors, built in measures, ways and such as that, that are constantly in operation when something like this is happening. As long as you continue to make the decisions — demonstrate love in your life — acknowledge not just the presence of your Father, but in your fellowman — make every effort possible, no matter how — .

You have no idea. You may think it's nothing. You make think it amounts to a pot of beans, but how can you stand in judgment? You have short-sighted eyes. You do not see futures like we do. You do not know how long it takes for the tree to grow to a majestic tree, a fruit-bearing tree, because you may be long gone and all you did was plant the seed. So small and infinitesimal and you don't even know that you did it. That's the kind of service we're talking about. Those are the things. This is why we teach like we do.

The doctor talked with these gentlemen the other night. It becomes habitual. It becomes automatic with you. It becomes — did I or did I not? Was I or was I not? Yes, Alan

Today, -- I think Tom was; telling you about how, at work, how it just came out of his mouth, he wasn't even aware of it, he was saying and he turned to the lady and he said, "But you do claim that sickness. Give it to Jesus Christ. In the name of Jesus Christ it is gone." And he said that it just happened, it just came out of his mouth. That's the kind of thing we're talking about. And he did it absolutely totally unabashedly because he had no pre-plan, he had no aforethought, he had no -- he didn't stand in censorship of it. It just was, because it's become a part of him.

Karen: It was real.

MESSENGER: These are the kinds of things we're talking about. One time in our discussions the doctor talked about prejudices. You asked how do I get rid of them? It's the same old thing. When you get sick and tired of being sick and tired. When you get tired of mentally masterbating yourselves to death. When you get tired of the mental exhaustion and the emotional exhaustion, you let it happen and it becomes automatic and you are being reborn, deeper and deeper, more and more a budding new you. The new mind, the new heart, the new intellectual system. The old is gone. You don't need it anymore. It has stood in your way. It has prevented you from achievement. It has gotten you into more hang-ups and more problems and more difficulties and more—

Karen: Delays.

MESSENGER: — than you can imagine. Now today, today, these gentlemen are following specific advice and instructions. They have not, to any of our knowledge, turned their back on one thing they were told to do. The more repetitious it becomes the more automatic it becomes, the more they do it. It's the same old story. The more they take it on, the more they come to be. The more they be, the more they are, the more it is being expressed, the more seeds are being planted unconsciously without even being aware that they are doing it. They are. Therefore, they are. Now that's why we have this investment here, with the three of you. Social architects take the best at their disposal and put it together and say, "Okay, now. What are the plans? Here it is. Here's the best we've got. We pray that it works." The social architects do it in the form of seraphim. Seraphic action. The seraphim do it.

Karen: There must be at least three?

MESSENGER: To make a group. When you're dealing with two, it's something else. An unusual set of circumstances. I think maybe for Karen's benefit maybe I should explain just a little bit about this situation here. The actual rebirth with these two people here is-- the actual real rebirth is very similar, very close in time. I know that may sound surprising but it's true. Therefore, chronologically there is no age difference. So they are two children, reborn children.

In this particular case because of their Thought Adjusters having had prior experience, similar prior experiences, and these two people having similar personality characteristics, and then in addition to that since their rebirths are almost in the same time span, give or take as far as eternity is concerned, a flash of an eye difference, they have had similar spiritual experiences. They are soul mates and they're never going to experience from this point forward anything that the other one doesn't.

Karen: Well, that's pretty wonderful companionship.

MESSENGER:: It is a phenomenon.

Karen: Urn-hum.

MESSENGER: It is a phenomenon. It has caused a great deal of adjustment, social adjustments for the two of them. It has caused a great deal of difficulty.

Karen: Yeah.

MESSENGER: It has caused total upheavals in many, many, many areas not only between them and environmentally but also in their outer environments, which have had to go through a great deal of adjustments. But this is an unusual set of circumstances. But it was seraphic action. It was on the request of their TAs.

Karen: Um-hum. I'm delighted.

MESSENGER: But it does not make their lives easy. So, one of the things — it has forced, it has created a certain amount of impetus for them to grow spiritually and learn to deal with it. Any questions? Why don't we take a break?

Tom: Good idea.

Karen: Yes. Stretch and breathe.

Tom: Is Alan back? Oh, man....

  • Recess

Karen: Hi, Jack.

JACK: Did you enjoy your conversation with the Mighty Messenger?

Karen: Certainly did.

Tom: Sure did. Very interesting.

Karen: I'll be interested to read it now.

JACK: Do you have any questions you'd like to ask?

Tom: Is he still here?

JACK: He's in the vicinity, yes.

Tom: Is there anything else he'd like to say to us, or did he make his— or is he finished? [Pause, checking]

MESSENGER: I'm back.

Karen: Hello.

Tom: Hi.

MESSENGER: I didn't have an opportunity to say good-night and to thank you for the opportunity to speak with you. I'd like to do that now. If you have any questions, please ask. I don't mean to take up a lot of time. Sometimes we don't measure quite the

same distances that you do, and I apologize for that because I know that you all have to get up and go to work tomorrow and I know that you have many other responsibilities to take care of.

Karen: Um-hum! That's all right. We don't get this opportunity very often.

MESSENGER: I would like to suggest to those of you who are tired and to those of you who have some physical difficulties in meeting and coping with the demands of your heavy schedules, that it be said now that you are being impregnated with the energy and the power and the healing grace to make all these things possible.

Karen: Thank you so much.

MESSENGER: You need not ever have any problem regarding your physical health, weariness, over-exertion, lack of sleep, lack of energy, because from this moment on, you will always have sufficient... providing you do not abuse it. With that, God bless you, thank you, I love you.

Tom Thank you.

Karen: Thank you.

MESSENGER: With any luck at all I might be back.

Karen: Good.

Tom: Great.

ALL: Good-bye. Good-night.

Tom: Wow.

Karen: I feel better already!

Tom: Jack?

JACK: Yes, I'm here.

Karen: You've got some wonderful friends, Jack.

JACK: Aren't they neat?

Karen: It's nice of you to introduce us to your friends.

Tom: Sooner than we expected. Or anticipated.

JACK: I thought you would enjoy them.

Karen: Yeah.

Tom: It was so peaceful.

Karen: Yeah. Very. Not intimidating at all. What a gift! All the energy we can put to good use.

Tom: As long as we don't abuse it.

Karen: Urn-hum.

Tom: When he said that does he mean keep going and pushing too hard and, you know, I've got this much energy so I guess I can go farther.

JACK: Yes, I'd say that. That you didn't start filling your stomach with a lot of junk, junk foods and you went back off your diets, started smoking, drinking again, and just being ignorant. You have to have at all times reasonable care.

Karen: Yes.

JACK: There are times, of course, when the demands are such that you may get very few hours sleep, but you don't have to worry about those things.

Tom: How do we take in this energy?

JACK: You have already taken it in. "Implanted."

Tom: Is it like a little battery that's been implanted and we got a charger out there?

Karen: The tree of life.

JACK: You got it.

Tom: Fantastic.

JACK: You got it.

Karen: Wonderful.

JACK: You got it.

Tom: That's going to help.

Karen: I think I'll pass that one on.

JACK: I suggest you keep it to yourselves.

Karen: Yeah? All right.

JACK: Urn-hum. It was a gift.

Karen: Indeed.

JACK: It was a gift so that you can continue to work.

Karen: Good.

JACK: It was a gift so that you can do the things that are required. And when it's time for someone else to receive the gift, someone else will come and give them the gift. Believe me. That's how that works.

Karen: All right.

JACK: This one's your own special...

Karen: Confidence.

Tom: Guess that proves we're doing the right thing, huh?

JACK: Sure.

Karen: I'm almost reminded of when Jesus gave to the apostles the Ambassadorship of the Kingdom.

Tom: I just need the energy.

Karen: I know it. (Laughter)

Tom: I don't need to be an ambassador. Too bad for my ego.

Karen: I understand; it's hard to live with.

JACK: Well, Karen, I understand you're having problems with your car.

Karen: Well, no, actually I don't. It's just that I share the car and it brings about certain social situations, one is my instinct to take care of my own God-damned car and have the independence of having my own car. And I don't know where this attitude comes from except that I feel that it doesn't behoove me to allow my friend, who uses my car, to use my car indefinitely. It doesn't make sense to me. Although I'm completely aware of all the mechanical ramifications of the situation we're in, and every one of them is fair and well justified and honorable and fraternal and companionable and sharing, some seven-headed monster rises up and says, "I want my car!" and I'm quite torn, philosophically, about how to deal with it.

As the Mighty Messenger said, give the car to Jesus. I have given the car to Jesus; every once in a while, though, I say to myself, "Wait a minute. Am I being taken advantage of here?" and it's a situation I've encountered before and I'm just not quite sure in any of those given situations, how to deal with it. It is a case of, I'm moving somewhere, and I don't want it to be a selfish move, I want it to be a wise move, whatever that may be.

JACK: Well, I don't have anything really to add to it, you know. The only thing that I can say is that look to your Master. If that's too esoteric, Tom can help you. Now that's not necessarily in terms of an automobile, but in terms of the essence or the moral of your story, he's been through it. Ask him how he worked it out. He's been through it, so perhaps he can help.

Karen: Share it with me.

JACK: In that way you can help each other.

Karen: I will ask him.

Tom: You mean in the situation where when I didn't have a car?

Karen I guess all of them.

Tom: I don't know what experience, what you.... There's been a lot of them. A lot of things I've gone through. What are you referring to?

JACK: Think about it. Well, we've all had experiences where we've all been on the receiving end or on the giving end where we felt we were either taking too much or giving too much and not getting the proper balance in return and those of us who have been through those experiences could probably help share their experience with you, so that's what I'm making reference to.

Karen: It involves such things as, the second mile, it really does. These are values, and they have meaning. They're not just about a damned car.

JACK: That is correct.