Changes

Terry: Hi, LinEL. I know there's a lot of other questions I should be asking but there is one I came across in the [[Urantia book]], but I don't know whether you can help me out. I think the best thing for me to do is to read this paragraph and you'll probably know what I'm [[talking]] about.

Terry: Hi, LinEL. I know there's a lot of other questions I should be asking but there is one I came across in the [[Urantia book]], but I don't know whether you can help me out. I think the best thing for me to do is to read this paragraph and you'll probably know what I'm [[talking]] about.

<blockquote>"Your [[path]] to [[paradise]] is the path of spiritual [[attainment]] and the [[adjuster]] nature will [[faithfully]] [[unfold]] the [[revelation]] of the spiritual [[nature]] of the [[Universal Father]]. Beyond the [[Paradise]] [[ascent]] and into the post-[[finaliter]] [[stages]] of this [[eternal]] [[career]], the adjuster may possibly contact with the onetime [[human]] [[partner]] in other than spirit ministry." ([http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=107:6_Adjusters_as_Pure_Spirits 107:6.3)]</blockquote>

<blockquote>"Your [[path]] to [[paradise]] is the path of spiritual [[attainment]] and the [[adjuster]] nature will [[faithfully]] [[unfold]] the [[revelation]] of the spiritual [[nature]] of the [[Universal Father]]. Beyond the [[Paradise]] [[ascent]] and into the post-[[finaliter]] [[stages]] of this [[eternal]] [[career]], the adjuster may possibly contact with the onetime [[human]] [[partner]] in other than spirit ministry." ([https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=107:6_Adjusters_as_Pure_Spirits 107:6.3)]</blockquote>

Can you tell me what they are trying to tell us there?

Can you tell me what they are trying to tell us there?

Dan: Yeah. Thank you.

Dan: Yeah. Thank you.

===='''''[[Perfection]]'''''====

===='''''[[Perfection]]'''''====

Barbara: I feel some need to get back to the question of [[perfection]]. It seems to me that it's one of those kinds of [[concepts]] that we have a really hard time grasping and grappling with and I [[wonder]] if some of the [[difficulty]] with [[interpreting]] passages in [[the book]] have to do with our imperfect grasp of such a [[concept]] as "perfect". And that gets a little muddy too. But there is another thing that I am trying to get at in my head about our [[perceptions]], and how the perception of something, like a new [[insight]], will change that concept for you, and I'm using you in a pretty [[universal]] sense here, forever. For instance, my [[idea]] of what [[perfection]] is today may be completely different, because of some [[insight]] that I will gain tomorrow, from my perception of what that concept will be tomorrow. I should have probably sat down and [[written]] this one out before I tried asking a question about it. . (questioner laughs)...I'm looking at Terry...It reminds me a little bit of this fellow [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg_uncertainty_principle Heisenberg] and the notion that even to [[witness]] an [[event]] [[changes]] the event. Oh. I know what that reminds me of, that reminds me, too, of some things I've heard Mark talk about in terms of how objects, even by being together where once they were apart created a new [[reality]] and all this is mooshed together with Katie's question about [[perfection]]... are..you....(laughter)...do you suppose you could comment on that at all or should I just go [[home]] and write it down and bring it next time?

Barbara: I feel some need to get back to the question of [[perfection]]. It seems to me that it's one of those kinds of [[concepts]] that we have a really hard time grasping and grappling with and I [[wonder]] if some of the [[difficulty]] with [[interpreting]] passages in [[the book]] have to do with our imperfect grasp of such a [[concept]] as "perfect". And that gets a little muddy too. But there is another thing that I am trying to get at in my head about our [[perceptions]], and how the perception of something, like a new [[insight]], will change that concept for you, and I'm using you in a pretty [[universal]] sense here, forever. For instance, my [[idea]] of what [[perfection]] is today may be completely different, because of some [[insight]] that I will gain tomorrow, from my perception of what that concept will be tomorrow. I should have probably sat down and [[written]] this one out before I tried asking a question about it. . (questioner laughs)...I'm looking at Terry...It reminds me a little bit of this fellow [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisenberg_uncertainty_principle Heisenberg] and the notion that even to [[witness]] an [[event]] [[changes]] the event. Oh. I know what that reminds me of, that reminds me, too, of some things I've heard Mark talk about in terms of how objects, even by being together where once they were apart created a new [[reality]] and all this is mooshed together with Katie's question about [[perfection]]... are..you....(laughter)...do you suppose you could comment on that at all or should I just go [[home]] and write it down and bring it next time?

LinEL: It is always useful to hear your unformed [[thoughts]]. They often contain more of the true [[essence]] of your [[question]]. In your pursuit to be [[perfect]], there are often [[moments]] where you [[believe]] you are [[experiencing]] something as perfectly as it can be experienced. You are experiencing the [[essence]] of a [[unique]] [[being]]...which is yourself. You are evolving in your [[perceptions]], you are evolving and growing in your [[relationship]] to [[the universe]], beginning to [[understand]] what it is to be a [[citizen]]. All of these experiences that you speak of are part of growing to be truly perfect. Perfection, very much like "best" is a process. You may at times experience perfect [[love]] between yourself and your [[adjuster]], between yourself and [[the Father]]. These are the moments and times that you could [[perceive]] as truly perfect. As you [[grow]], your experience of that [[love]] will broaden and still remain [[perfect]]. It is like trying to [[quantify]] how [[beautiful]] a sunset is. Is the one the day before more [[beautiful]] than this one? They are both perfect. Your [[experience]] of that [[beauty]] is perfect. Do you begin to [[understand]] the [[quandary]]?

LinEL: It is always useful to hear your unformed [[thoughts]]. They often contain more of the true [[essence]] of your [[question]]. In your pursuit to be [[perfect]], there are often [[moments]] where you [[believe]] you are [[experiencing]] something as perfectly as it can be experienced. You are experiencing the [[essence]] of a [[unique]] [[being]]...which is yourself. You are evolving in your [[perceptions]], you are evolving and growing in your [[relationship]] to [[the universe]], beginning to [[understand]] what it is to be a [[citizen]]. All of these experiences that you speak of are part of growing to be truly perfect. Perfection, very much like "best" is a process. You may at times experience perfect [[love]] between yourself and your [[adjuster]], between yourself and [[the Father]]. These are the moments and times that you could [[perceive]] as truly perfect. As you [[grow]], your experience of that [[love]] will broaden and still remain [[perfect]]. It is like trying to [[quantify]] how [[beautiful]] a sunset is. Is the one the day before more [[beautiful]] than this one? They are both perfect. Your [[experience]] of that [[beauty]] is perfect. Do you begin to [[understand]] the [[quandary]]?

Barbara: I don't have any trouble [[understanding]] the quandary, it's understanding the answer to the quandary I have trouble with but as you were talking I [[realized]] that one of the other things that I have a [[difficulty]] with when it comes to [[perfection]] is that the term [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_%28psychology%29 perfectionist] does not...in current usage not very [[positive]]. There is a connotation of perfection in our [[society]] currently that is [[negative]] because in the ways that we that try to [[express]] it materially, it is not possible. And sometimes we get caught in these situations where we are [[expected]] to be perfect or we expect ourselves to be perfect in [[material]] ways and therefore we never succeed. And so when Katie asked the question about [[perfection]] I felt some real clear [[emotional]] responses to that. And I guess there's...

Barbara: I don't have any trouble [[understanding]] the quandary, it's understanding the answer to the quandary I have trouble with but as you were talking I [[realized]] that one of the other things that I have a [[difficulty]] with when it comes to [[perfection]] is that the term [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_%28psychology%29 perfectionist] does not...in current usage not very [[positive]]. There is a connotation of perfection in our [[society]] currently that is [[negative]] because in the ways that we that try to [[express]] it materially, it is not possible. And sometimes we get caught in these situations where we are [[expected]] to be perfect or we expect ourselves to be perfect in [[material]] ways and therefore we never succeed. And so when Katie asked the question about [[perfection]] I felt some real clear [[emotional]] responses to that. And I guess there's...

LinEL: The type of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_%28psychology%29 perfectionism] that you speak of is truly [[material]] in [[essence]]. It cannot be [[attained]] in the time frame that is given. Therefore it is inherently damaging to those who carry it as a [[goal]]. True [[perfection]] is the willingness to follow the [[path]] of [[the Father]], to [[become]] more like him. This involves much [[uncertainty]] and often [[error]]. This is... it is... an example would be...a flower is perfect in its bloom, but has [[stages]] where it is not a flower. We would [[perceive]] it as imperfect because it is not the bloom, but it is as we would see an imperfect [[part]] of a [[perfect]] system, therefore it is perfect...in its [[essence]] of [[becoming]].

LinEL: The type of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfectionism_%28psychology%29 perfectionism] that you speak of is truly [[material]] in [[essence]]. It cannot be [[attained]] in the time frame that is given. Therefore it is inherently damaging to those who carry it as a [[goal]]. True [[perfection]] is the willingness to follow the [[path]] of [[the Father]], to [[become]] more like him. This involves much [[uncertainty]] and often [[error]]. This is... it is... an example would be...a flower is perfect in its bloom, but has [[stages]] where it is not a flower. We would [[perceive]] it as imperfect because it is not the bloom, but it is as we would see an imperfect [[part]] of a [[perfect]] system, therefore it is perfect...in its [[essence]] of [[becoming]].

Barbara: In other [[words]] we need to make enough mistakes in order to become [[perfect]].

Barbara: In other [[words]] we need to make enough mistakes in order to become [[perfect]].