View source for Talk:1993-01-01-Rayson & Friends, Vol. 2, Part 1

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As I review the record, it becomes obvious there exists a pattern of 'disappointment' much like that of the Apostles. Can anyone add to the list of such serious Teaching Mission disappointments below.

1. Failure of Gabriel to appear in Thern Blackburn's basement. (date ?)
2. Reception (or lack thereof) of Teaching Mission by 'the Brotherhood'. 02-1992
3. Failed materialization of Melchizedeks. Remind me where and when please.

I appreciate the willingness to fatten upon disappointments!--rdavis 01:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

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Donna D'Ingillo wrote on tml:

Reply to #3, [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism that was April 1993 around the 26 or 27 if my memory serves me.  Naperville, IL] ( think it was a Holiday Inn or some other hotel like that)--rdavis 01:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

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Gerdean wrote on tml:

3.  Naperville, Illinois.  April 24, 1993.

this confirms the date mentioned in [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism the record].

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I started transmitting after being additionally inspired and gifted after the Naperville event.
 
That is the gathering in Chicago in which Machiventa formally established Urantia as the headquarters residency planet for the Correcting Time. He assumed morontia form and the broadcast was made throughout the local universe, transmitted by Marilyn Green.
 
As a grateful reward for our faithful participation, Machiventa said we would each be granted what we needed most going forward. I don't know if anyone even remembers this. I began transmitting for our shaky group following this serious human disillusionment and TRed for several years.
 
After the crowd dispersed from the main meeting in Chicago, Marilyn stayed to transmit some more. Susan Minarik transmitted Andrew. They were not able to shed much additional light on the ceremony that I recall. I am sure it was much more meaningful and impactful to the rest of the universe than to the cannibals who live here.
 
best wishes, jim--rdavis 18:02, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

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Jim Cleveland to tml at 11:23 AM, 10/10/2011

The event inspired Mark and I, we were rewarded for the step of faith that carried us to Chicago, and we eventually produced 10 CDs together. I began transmitting the next month and have been blessed with the connection ever since.
 
Conversely, like the FOG episode ten years earlier, it embarrassed the hell out of a bunch of analytical folks and they stomped off into a sour disposition. A sizeable number of those people showed up in doubt and cynicism and didn't believe it would happen, certainly contributing nothing to the collective positive energies that were being summoned to assist.
 
Some joined a circle of energy in the room and actively participated. For them it was like Pentecost, with new energies coming in. The expeience was real. Others sat trying to wrap their minds around it, minds twisted by the new-age like ceremony before them, the kind of thing which sullies their intellectual worship of the UB, and a big assertive woman transmitter in a white gown they didn't know. Sedona must have set off an alarm to some Urantians.  
 
Perhaps you get out of something what you put into it.
 
Except for seeing morontian personalities. We didn't do that in Naperville, and most of us have never seen one in our whole lives. At Naperville, it was no different.
 
The guys with the video camera must have particularly been disgusted. But .... can you imagine the audacity of showing up for a spiritual event with a camera, with a bunch of skeptics, in a blooming Holiday Inn. If a spectre had appeared, the whole place would have probably fallen into a panic, with people falling down and crying, running out of the room, etc. The camera men would be running across the parking lot to the studio to see what they captured and get it on TV. What a mess. 
 
There was also the immediacy of the Waco cult people being burned alive at that time, and whether the timing was right for a spectre appearance and its consequences.
 
There was also the matter of people turning off all the lights in the room, which reportedly made it very difficult to observe a morontian figure. Duh. So much for candlelight for atmosphere. 
 
And there were those who are so wedded and welded into their material eyes, that they stormed away from the scene and did not bother to hear the transmissions that followed in an alcove, and when workers came to clean up the alcove, we re-entered the large room, and continued the discussion. Many heard none of these, having fled. Some flocked to the hotel lobby and chatted among themselves, laughing at the tomfoolery of the whole thing and people's deleterious imaginations. 
 
Perhaps we are always making something out of our own minds, when the whole idea is to turn them off and open to Spirit. A number of humans in Naperville were and are still heavily invested into their own logical minds, and it rules them. It is altogether too difficult/fearful  for them to release any of this control. And they showed up in curiosity, believing that he would not appear. One TR group even had its own transmissions to refute it and they came anyway. Such a mix of negative and positive energies. --rdavis 17:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

== the day: before & after - Tomas ==

*April 23, 1993

TOMAS: This is Tomas. Yes, Gerdean, I have time to speak with you. I am assigned here to your area and I enjoy our contact. I can appreciate your concern, that everyone might be occupied this evening in preparation for tomorrow's anticipated materialization of Machiventa. However, that will not preclude our being able to visit as usual. Machiventa himself is available should you so desire; however, I honor your graciousness to allow him to compose himself for his re-entry into your material plane. As far as our awareness goes, it is in preparation and as you anticipate his appearance, we also anticipate his further ability to contact those mortals who are anxiously, willingly, joyously awaiting his imminent arrival. We are all in anticipation and will discover tomorrow what transpires.

We have utilized your energies and we appreciate your willingness to lend your energies to this enterprise. Many, many spiritual energies are being focused on that event and you will not he disappointed, nor will those in attendance. I am in that Corps of Teachers who are supportive of this manifestation, as we are under the jurisdiction of "Big Mac" and we joyously anticipate the further growth that will transpire once this materialization is accomplished. Much of our ability to accomplish this feat is due to the responsiveness of you in Correcting Time Mission who are willing to contribute your energy to this process and to this era.

We further request your contribution tomorrow toward enlightened invitation for such manifestation as is hoped to transpire. You are realizing, through these past few days, where your ultimate reality lies. And your tests have been met and passed, and you are again comfortable with me and with your role as transmitter/receiver of our words and accept your role as assigned. We are working in this together and we appreciate your cooperation and your willingness and your faith. Go rest and prepare for tomorrow as an eventful day in the unfolding of light and life on your world. Much good will come from tomorrow.

*April 25, 1993

TOMAS: This is Tomas, your Teacher. I am commissioned by Machiventa Melchizedek, as acting Planetary Prince, through the banner of Christ Michael, to impart to you certain lessons as we would have you absorb and convey to your fellows, inasmuch as you are committed to His will and to fostering the brotherhood of man on Urantia.

You already have learned to persevere in the face of isolation as an Agondonter and with faith that, in spite of your inability to see, you are aware of and believe in our presence, our supernal overcare, and our undying love for you as it is Michael's desire that we impart to you your isolation has ended and we are, in fact and indeed, ready for communication with you mortals as you mortals are ready to communicate with us.

We have not altered our course and we are attempting to proceed in the face of many people's doubts that we exist, and that this method of communication has reality, as many people are disillusioned with such phenomenon and pseudo-phenomenon. However, as we teach and as you learn, you will bear the fruits of our labors and the love of Christ Michael and you will be your own example of God doing through your life what could not be accomplished were it not for spirit connection, cooperation and liaison.

Even blind faith requires a belief in something other than reality as it is perceived by mortal eyes. It is literally true, you are called to be born again, born of the spirit and, once an entity is realized in the spirit, only opportunity presents itself for further growth and further reality. There are no backward steps written into your destiny path.

You will, Gerdean, indeed, receive information regarding the attempted materialization of Machiventa yesterday on your planet as you were advised by L. in Naperville. You assuredly will appreciate the response.  And I must say, were you slightly less toxic and slightly more in tune, you might be able to receive more factual details of yesterday's events. You are not, however, given that information.  And you should not feel "lesser" because you do not immediately understand the nature of the events that did transpire.

There are many things in Our Father's universe which are not understood by many of us and this is not disturbing to us as we have long since come to trust Our Father in all things, as Christ Michael trusted His Father in all matters, not excluding the matters of the Melchizedeks and the teachers and the supernals who attend you. Nor, as you know, should you debilitate yourself by trying to understand your fellow human beings overmuch, as many of the experiences that are experienced in this lifetime are for the individual's long-term growth, and short-term observation will reveal only superficial answers to why such an experience occurred.

The whys and wherefores of spiritual growth are neither here nor there. Spiritual growth is unconscious. It is by your conscious decisions and more decisions, and by your sincerity and further sincerity, that you ascend the ladder of spiritual consciousness, and spiritual devotion increases as you climb this ladder. As you ascend in The Father's Kingdom, you are given opportunity to serve your fellows in wider and vaster arenas and you ultimately are brought to a point of reaching the multitudes and this is, shall we say "generic"; this is morontial. This is spiritual.  And by no means is this according to your understanding or your intellectualization of what you are contributing.

As you well know, the less aware you are of your input into another's growth, the more growth that can occur, as free will on your world is supreme and for this reason you are encouraged to whet the appetites of your associates for truth. And how does one do this? It is not by acting intellectually superior or philosophically replete, but in living the life and in answering the questions you have presented by living out the answers for their observation and then they may incorporate their own experience into their own evolving spiritual ladder.

This is why any experience is good if it contributes to the understanding of the mortal's relationship with God, as they understand Him, of the Higher Power of our Father in Heaven, of Allah, of Buddha, of the Great Spirit, of the Most Highs. If it contributes to their recognition and understanding of this omniscient presence, then it has been beneficial.

It is indeed a truism that perhaps the best way to plant your seeds is for the right hand to not know what the left hand is doing. This is perhaps why, when you feel you are being a total airhead, you may be operating more in the spirit than if you were "under control" or "on top of it." The less on top of it you are, the more sense you can make to other spirit hungry souls.

TRIESTE: Greetings, Gerdean, this is Trieste. I am in attendance. I know everything you have been going through, everything you have been experiencing, all your joys, all your perceived limitations, all your disappointments in yourself and in your fellows. I am your companion. I find it all rather interesting and it is well that I find it interesting, as this is where I am assigned. This is my assignment, as you are assigned to your assignment, and you have followed it nobly in planting your trees and your seeds.

I plant my seeds and allow the Father to nourish the seed to fruition. I can fertilize the seed and water it, but it is through the light of the Son, Christ Michael, and The Father whereby the plant reaches and ascends, ultimately to bring forth fruit. I abide with you, Gerdean, and only ask that you utilize my presence more often and more fully for we will become one in purpose.

TOMAS: I am Tomas. And, yes, to a certain extent your personal teacher Trieste is guiding you in cooperation with your Thought Adjuster toward your ultimate fusion, toward your ultimate one-on-one communication with your Thought Adjuster, in a manner and in/through a personality which will not burn you, will not overwhelm you. Yes, this is a correct presumption / perception and I, yes, am your Teacher.

As you know, throughout the mansion worlds you will fall under the jurisdiction of the Order of Melchizedeks, and you have learning experiences outlined for you in your ascension plan which would be overseen by those teachers in the Order of Melchizedek which, of course, is under Machiventa Melchizedek, so you see, if and when Machiventa arrives, you are realizing an incredible event of incredible power and energy.

It is a consideration that he needs to incarnate as before, for if he were to appear with all his power and dynamic energy, you would not be able to withstand the impact of his presence. This is not impossible; it is simply not that simple to accomplish, as he is your Planetary Prince and arrangements need to be made to baby-sit us all.

I am withdrawing for now and I encourage you to return to the original stillness and feel Our Father and feel the Spirit of Truth and see for yourself the Divine plan as you perceive it for yourself and for all of us in service to you, to your planet and to your Father.

Good night, Gerdean, my loyal student .
*See also '''''[[1993-04-27-Tomas on Naperville]]''''' where the two lessons above are combined with a third shared on tml 2/15/2012--rdavis 06:07, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

== Jim's further reflection ==

Hello Rob and all,
 
As I wrap up a lengthy chapter about the Grimsley war scare in 1983, we turn to '93 and the mysteries of the Chicago non-materialization.
 
As I delve deeper I recall a room filled with two forces on a collision course.
 
A contingent of dedicated Urantia readers, a number of them not believing it would happen, others reacting negatively to the other group.
 
This group came from Sedona to assist in the event, called upon by a Chicago study group that included much more than Urantia in their curriculum and was more open to new age spirituality and the showy ceremony to help facilitate the materialization energy. It disgusted some hardcore Urantians, who didn't know these people.
 
This became a clash of minds. Perhaps the overall realities and vibrations of the scene precluded a human materialization. But likely there was never a plan to produce a flesh and blood Melchizedek there in the Holiday Inn ballroom to interact with this array of people and their conflicted agendas and uncertain reactions.
 
Prior to the event, the morontian teachers all spoke hopefully about the materialization 'attempt' and didn't denote that it was a certainty, including Tarkas in Cincinnati (via other transmitters). Nonetheless, some humans made it a make-or-break situation. I expect the celestials learned more about us that day than we learned from them.
 
Still exploring .... jim--rdavis 18:08, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

== Jim's description re: Sedona folks ==

Hello Rob,
 
I've been doing extensive research on the Family of God/Vern Grimsley episode, but research on this Chicago event needs to be done. May find the time a little later.
 
The Sedona folks, as I understand, had no relation to the Aquarian Concepts community. In fact, a gentleman from Sedona who was a participant, also helped with a recovery program for people who had invested all of their money in the community and had become disillusioned and left. The community takes all of your personal possessions, I believe, in return for the persons belonging and doing all the work. Don't remember the fellow's name; he is black.
 
It is said that Tony the Baloney expected bows and genuflects and subservience because of his self-exalted status and not everyone decided they wanted to bow when he entered a room. Some elders discharged for insubordination. But they were all a motley crew who listed a variety of past lives they believe they have had, all famous people, of course, like Crazy Horse and Joan of Arc.
 
Tony's ambition to be a rock star has materialized at the community, where he heads up a band of musicians. His thing appears to have no relation to Urantia, which he hijacked to meet his needs. The ridiculous notion that he was writing the other 9/10th of the UB apparently has fallen by the wayside. If he was ever connected with spirit, and some say he was, he has abdicated and I doubt that the celestials would give him anything at all.
 
I haven't searched out the woman who transmitted Machiventa, though I have the name of a couple of her friends. She is Marilyn Green. I expect she would/will say that she transmitted the material and Machiventa is responsible for it. But I haven't talked to her.
 
I regret that more people who attended didn't take it to heart. Some guy from Indianapolis even railed that Caligastia was behind the event. Yet another participant said she saw him clearly and was somewhat in a daze from the experience.
 
Machiventa said that as a reward for our faith to come to Chicago we would each be granted what we needed the most for our spiritual growth. It worked for me, as I began to transmit fluently and move forward expediently with a lot of creative work.
 
It seems that Machiventa's stepdown to morontian state and his establishing his headquarters in the Lucifer Rebellion adjudication on Urantia would be impactful. But material eyes didn't see him, few people remember what was transmitted, the UB cynics were justified that it wasn't going to happen, and defensive embarrassment took a firm hold.
 
While the morontian teachers worked to make this happen, they could never be sure it would, and weren't sure immediately afterwards as to why it hadn't. Susan Minarik, for one, transmitted after the event, and Andrew was not sure what happened with the visualization.
 
I would lay that on the wisdom of God. It was a bit chaotic because so many thought nothing happened except for them fooling themselves and got emotional. Had he materialized, however, the chaos would likely have been greater. Just my idea.--rdavis 17:05, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

== susan's transmission & jim's further thoughts ==

Hi Rob, Isee one of the lessons I have  below; the other may have been private from Susan to Thern.

<blockquote>Melchizedek's appearance is a great event for your planet. Allow time for meditation on your part that morning. Recovering...Turning your attention from earthly matters to this great event is appropriate. Quiet meditation, receptivity, is fine. Allow time for this event to happen. Nothing can occur without the cooperation of loving mortals aligned in their desire to behold this Morontial appearance. Requesting information from others is fine. Their experiences may differ. All your energy goes toward healing now. Rest your body. Goodbye.'Urantia Booklessons on faithThe Urantia Book. Tell Thern forbearance is important at this time. Many differing viewpoints exist regarding today's event. Machiventa Melchizedek assumed his role in this experiment, which functioned appropriately. Light waves drew energy directly from his Morontial body, causing interference with his materializationMelchizedekMachiventa's materialization;. This did not preclude his exposure to the group from occurring. It impeded the mortal ability to see him. Regardless of this problem, there occurred a remarkable demonstration of faith and trust among the believers in the room. Learning can come through disappointments also. We regret this occurrence's failure to establish further credibility in this work, in this Mission. However, do not forget the many other manifestations of integrity that warrant your belief. Abide with us in our endeavors to materialize a Melchizedek teacher for you. This is not the only planned materialization. Other events will take place. Have faith in this Mission. God's plan continues to unfold within the boundaries of free will choice and human faith. Neglect not...Do not neglect to ponder the many challenges we all face in our attempts to do the Father's will. Regrettably, some are hurt, some sorrow now; but, they will be cheered in good time. Remain constant in your efforts to spread the loving concepts of the Teaching Mission. God reaches toward you. Lift up your hands in faith toward him. Regular stillness practice helps in our efforts to facilitate the circuit opening. Everyone involved in this practice gives energy toward circuit opening. Remember.....We love you.</blockquote>

The transmission confirms that Machiventa did indeed assume his planetary role as he said that day in his transmission via Marilyn. I believe he would have come forth in a morontian-like form.

My presence and subsequent conversation with people informs that a number of people were doubtful, suspicious and full of curiosity and would have contributed little or nothing toward any ceremony to enhance energy. The transmission said that 'nothing can occur without the cooperation of loving mortals aligned in their desire to behold a Morontia appearance'  But then, on the other hand,  it says that all happened according to their plan anyway and people had various experiences. True. (Some person said later that the people weren't supposed to turn out the lights in the room, that impeding vision.) Perhaps people get what they are thinking and looking for ... a power of intention.

I noted with interest the plan to try other materializatrions. After this, perhaps they dropped those plans. Itr became known as 'naperville' just like we now refer to 'watergate' and people know what you mean with that one word .... and don't like it.

I noted also that a transmission said that AIDS will not ravage humanity as Caligastia had hoped. This references a transmission with Rayson from Joan Levine in Malibu that said AIDS was Caligastia's parting curse on the planet when he was hauled away or dematerialized. Her husband once noted to me with a chuckle that they had kinda dismissed that comment and thought it might have 'been just Joanie."

Some of our critics say that our lessons may be 'cross-fertilized' between groups, with a transmitter, having read other transmissions, reflecting that material. However, I've observed a lot of material transmitted on or about the same day across the country and it's compatible. And, of course, compatibility to others is simply verifying. I still wonder a bit .... did Caligastia inflict us with AIDS and why would he be permitted to do so after being called to task by God? Did he have free will and the ability to do it, and would God allow this plague as a part of the plan? My personal opinion is NO.

Don't know your reference to distribution of these papers. Appears that they are already distributed via your network here. 

I don't believe the TeaM history book has space to dissect and discuss this event, although after publication some critics will say that we bypassed our materialization fiascos. But I could write a chapter on this and interview Marilyn and they would say the same thing. Some people are material, with just a tinge of spirit, and they have to relate materiallly to all things. Conversely, Ms. Green and others who came from Sedona, Arizona, to Naperville are not just Urantia Book students per se but rather spiritual new agers who explore the realms of spiritual energy. Some will say that they led UB readers astray into these realms. And yet we know that the book only provides an overview to spiritual energies with much to learn and experience beyond its pages.

There is also a transmission somewhere that indicates that the Waco tragedy made a materialization inappropriate. I am far from convinced of that. 

I do believe teacher Andrew, a friend of mine, who transmitted after the event via Susan Minarik of Pittsburgh. He said the morontian teachers did not know why they had pulled the plug and had to sort it all out. He said his vision was a human holding a pencil and a clipboard and scratching his head. 

Before reading the transmission above about light waves, I kinda thought that a non-materialization would be hands-down the best choice that the celestials could have made. It might have spawned everything from fright to wailing to production of a cadre of ill-prepared zealots. 

I went to Chicago (Naperville suburb) to enhance my spiritual growth. Steps of faith and good intention are always rewarded.  It was plain to me that no human being involved with that event could provide true spiritual guidance to me or anyone else, although Bob Slagle delivered a fine speech. They are humans. From the woman who seemed in a beatific daze because she saw Machiventa and could describe him, to the ones who stormed out in verification that the devil was behind it all,  it is true what Rayson once said: to go to another human being for spiritual guidance is baffling. 

Another idea is that the celestials want us to remain Agondonters for awhile, for that is indeed a special state of being. 

Onward as Explorers ...... jim--rdavis 18:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

== Further Description ==

On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:11 PM, jamescleveland tds.net <jamescleveland@tds.net> wrote:

Who can explain all of this and human nature? After the Urantially unknown Ms. Green's obviously unsatisfying transmission of Machiventa with his grand announcement, standing there in long white gown, I was surprised to see the mass exodus of humans flocking away, a couple with video camera in tow .... maybe rented for the materialization.

Some folks said ..... well, what the heck, let's talk to the teachers. After we gathered a circle and transmitted Felicia, Andrew and Ms. Green with Machiventa, we were rousted out from the foyer by the hotel staff. From there, the traveling transmitting inquirers moved back into the now empty ballroom and people shared their experiences for awhile, what they felt --BIG incoming energies ... Ironically, as we sat there, a smaller group now,  a large hunk of the ballroom ceiling facade at a corner came loose and hung there for a moment .... then crashed to floor. "He's trying to break in," somebody deadpanned.

And then the human nature thing .... when we strolled out into the lobby we found that all this time, the various humans were milling around in fervid conversation over what they thought and why. They preferred this to talking to the teachers ... such an interesting safe haven retreat .... back into the analytical mind. Our usual transmitter was there in the conversation mill, and he never transmitted again. My companion was in the bar, another story.

I am, myself, still limited to speculation on this event of individual experiences, and that's because reasoned, spiritually touched thinking is productive here and should continue as long as issues are at hand.

I did appreciate Machiventa's stated gratitude at the event that we would come, and his promise that we would be blessed with what we most needed.

----

Thanks Jim! I didn't see that the excerpt you enclosed was from Session 28 of the record entitled 1993-03-20-Half Moon Bay, Part 2. Earlier in this exchange, I had referenced Session 20 in the same group of lessons. The specific dates for these individual sessions may need to wait upon the incorporation of Susan's records.

Having witnessed several materializations in the course of my life, I can say that while they are conducive to spiritual growth, they are not fully comprehensible to material minds even with the benefit of hindsight even though the value of such disclosures becomes more vivid over the course of living.--rdavis 22:38, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

== Transmitters? ==

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Sonny Schneider <sonnybc@look.ca> wrote:

Dear rob
Best person to talk to would be pat shumas as she was the first t/r involved.
Peace, sonny*

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On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Rob Davis <rdavis@daynal.org> wrote:

Hello Sonny-
Thanks for the information! Do you know how I might contact her?
Gratefully,
Rob
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On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 6:25 AM, jamescleveland tds.net <jamescleveland@tds.net> wrote:

Hi Rob and Sonny and all,

I talked to Pat Schomas, who is now into Keylontics, and also referenced her, but not by name. Maybe I spelled Keylontics correctly; they have a site.

She gave me a link to the Machiventa transmitter. Said that people were screaming in her face after the event but she advised them that she didn't do it .... and she herself didn't believe he would show up.

If anyone wants to try and contact Marilyn Green, I can give you a link or two. I'm very busy and not sure she would have anything to add. She transmitted clearly at Naperville but many curiosity people didn't get the vision they wanted.

cheers, jim

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Hello Jim-

Sonny said Pat S. "was the first TR involved". Does that mean she was the first TR involved in the Naperville event? If so, who were the others?

You said Pat S. was "the" Machiventa transmitter and that persons were screaming in her face after the event, but she advised them "she didn't do it". And yet,

You say Marilyn Green transmitted at Naperville but "many curiosity people didn't get the vision they wanted".

As this was expected to be a materialization of Machiventa and/or others, it appears that persons came ready to transmit as well. How many persons were there? How many of those are still alive? Do you these could write an account of the event?

Gratefully,

Rob--rdavis 19:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

== Jim's further description ==

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 8:31 AM, jamescleveland tds.net <jamescleveland@tds.net> wrote:
Hi Rob and all, need to correct and clarify below.

On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Rob Davis <rdavis@daynal.org> wrote:
Hello Jim-

Sonny said Pat S. "was the first TR involved". Does that mean she was the first TR involved in the Naperville event? If so, who were the others? 

Jim: Pat was a member of a spiritual study group in the area which was not confined to only the Urantia Book. They even published a newsletter which included other new age explorations.  I don't know who transmitted within the group besides Pat, but apparently they were the first source of the Machiventa materialization. This material was then linked into the Indianapolis group via their transmitter. Since this event and the huge fall-out, the Indy transmitter chose to withdraw from public transmitting. Over the years he has remained active working with personal seekers and doing excellent work, but wants no more spotlight. Perhaps he thinks that this material was cross-fertilized from the Chicago group into his transmissions and it was an error ..... but I don't know about this. Maybe he just didn't want more people condemning his efforts. Another Indy transmitter continues to be active but he said he asked the celestials to give him basic spiritual growth information and not involve his transmitting into such material. He said the information may not have been accurate. 

The fact that this group was not strictly Urantian was the first red flag for some readers. 

Our transmitter in Cincinnati transmitted to the group that the materialization would be 'attempted.'  The group was literally clamoring to see what their teacher would say. I believe it was Tarkas. 

Since the event was already being scheduled, I suppose that Tarkas was accurate. It was a fact, at that point, that the attempt would be made. Perhaps the teachers were being pulled in for the ride.

Our transmitter in Cinti became uncomfortable with the process and quit transmitting. He said that he detected some of himself, his own thoughts, in the transmissions. He was in Indy and experienced all the new age ritual and ceremony which was distasteful to so many readers, and also the fallout conversation after the event. I was then obliged to pick up the responsibility of group transmitter and did it for several years. He and most other people left in a hurry in Chicago and didn't stay for informal transmissions that followed, including another generous transmission of Machiventa by Marilyn. Many were in the hotel lobby talking to themselves.



You said Pat S. was "the" Machiventa transmitter and that persons were screaming in her face after the event, but she advised them "she didn't do it". And yet,

You say Marilyn Green transmitted at Naperville but "many curiosity people didn't get the vision they wanted". 

Jim: No, the Machiventa transmitter at the event (Marilyn Green, according to Pat) was unknown to most, as were people in the contingent from Sedona (another red flag for some?) One of the people from Sedona was a black gentleman and Urantia reader, can't remember his name. His primary work in Sedona was welcoming and working with people who were disillusioned with the so-called Gabriel in the Aquarian Concepts community there, which is still operational. One family turned over their money to the community, became disillusioned and lost it all, no refunds. He said these people needed a refuge of help from those machinations. 

And yes, many people were just curious, I think, and some did not believe it would happen, even cynical. I think these people contributed no positive energy and possibly enough negative energy to actually hurt the process. But the Urantia community seems to have never been involved in calling on and directing spiritual energies and I doubt that they would believe in the power of focused and concentrated group energy. Resentments of the ceremony and new age involvement further colored their mind. It was a mixed bag of negative and positive energy and too many people thinking it was all B.S. Perhaps the teachers thought they might get committed and positive support for their attempt, but they didn't. What they had was a number of book readers clashing (as usual) with anything new age. 

As this was expected to be a materialization of Machiventa and/or others, it appears that persons came ready to transmit as well. How many persons were there? How many of those are still alive? Do you these could write an account of the event?

Jim: I'm working on 8 books, 2 CDs and some websites, no time to write a real history and can't answer those questions. Crowd estimate? May be a bad guess but 150 or more. There were transmitters on hand, but I was not one of them at the time. Bob Slagle made an excellent talk the night before and it's available somewhere or other. He's still with us but I think perhaps in poor health. 

I trust the Iruka transmitter so take his/her words seriously. I also believe the event was for the entire local universe and that it was indeed his significant formal establishment as vicegerent planetary prince with his headquarters here on Urantia. If you believe in the TeaM at all, you would acknowledge that they wouldn't carry out a complete fraud with this event by seeing it through despite the human circumstances.

II think the energy focusing ceremony was the idea of the humans and they were not aware it would cause so much controversy among the book-bound seekers. It was an honest and well-meaning attempt to accommodate humans who yearned to be a significant contributor to the event, and demonstrate their commitment. Their intentions were good and they should not be condemned because the book readers had a deep resentment to 'new age' and showed up with suspicion and doubt. It may have been an unnecessary ceremony and it may not have contributed anything to Machiventa's appearance, but how can you fault religionists and new agers for their efforts at spiritual upreach and connection? Such efforts and demonstrations of faith are not bad; they are good. The people involved in the ritual were well-intentioned; too many in the audience were not. Maybe the event served to weed out some of those people. Despising 'new age' is not a criteria for being in the Teaching Mission. Such an attitude, in my view, would not deter reality either. It did NOT prevent Machiventa from formally taking the reins of the Correcting Time and establishing his headquarters here. And those who came in deleterious doubt got exactly what they expected too -- nothing. They certainly would not deserve anything in my view.

Those who came with an open heart and mind have likely all been rewarded for coming, as promised by Machiventa.

For other views, there are chapters by Mike Painter, Marty Risacher and Byron Belitsos in the forthcoming TeaM history book. Each of them had strong doubts; each of them came away thinking that the materialization information was false to begin with, their doubts were justified when it didn't happen and we must be ever-wary of false 'new age' information. The Oklahoma group came in doubt based on transmissions they received from a woman in Oklahoma. 

best wishes, jim--rdavis 23:32, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

== New Page ==

I have created a new page for '''''[[Naperville]]''''' and copied the content of this talkpage into the [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Naperville talkpage for Naperville] where any new additions will be found.--rdavis 02:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)