Talk:2014-04-25-New Era Conversations 20
WARNING: Readers should be apprised of conflicting assessments of the document 2013-08-31-New Era Conversations 7 that cast doubt upon the integrity of the entire corpus emanating from its source. Otherwise, as for this particular missive, see below.
Rob wrote: Sun. May 4, 2014 at 10:15amCT
Sensing a decline of interest arising from growing incredulty, Michael of Nebadon appears to bolster the reliance upon extrinsic authority before a most revealing statement attributed to Charles, a Mighty Messenger, speaks unequivocally -
There are certain protocols involved in our work; they have nothing to do with morality or ethics, but have to do with protocols and best ways to proceed. (1)
The history of this world, even recent history recorded in writing allows discerning individuals to see clearly where a void of morality and ethics leads!
May 4, 2014
Rob wrote on tml: Sun, May 4, 2014 at 10:28 AM
The desperation of NeoCons willing to consciously jettison morality and ethics become vivid.
Michael McCray wrote on tml: Sun, May 4, 2014 at 11:39 AM
Rob, Just because I don't think Putin can be trusted please don't use the term neocon to describe me, I do not trust G, Bush, or Dick Chaney either. The problem with using titles is they may line up in one respect and be totally off in 999 others.
Marty Greenhut wrote on tml: Sun, May 4, 2014 at 2:07 PM
Michael, Thank you for this post to tml. It gives me the chance to raise some questions that have been on my mind. I Too wonder why there are protocols that disallow ethical or moral considerations. It does not seem possible to me that love, truth beauty, and goodness can be excepted from our spiritual overcontrol except by Godless Luciferians, Satanic cultists, or just thoughtless mortal ignorance.
I have been wondering how this world can come under the correcting time protocols without first adjudicating the Illuminati who run things in gross corruption and intentional oppressive slavery; economic as well as mindal and spiritual. They hung Jesus on the cross and today are running Israel, the USA, and the UK.
Our governments are not trusted because THEY ARE NOT TRUSTWORTHY in any way. Does Teacher Charles expect the "channeling" of political and social reformation procedures to correct the problems we have in Israel/Palestine, in poverty VS Massive wealth, In the racism and bigotry in which we have been trained and conditioned like Pavlov's dogs?
If the cataclysms precede the planetary correction, can we expect the collapse of the Luciferian control over our world?
George Bush, Putin, Cheney, Obama, Netanyahu and all the warring leaders of our world are either committed Illuminati or are forced to do their work.
And, what of the zero point technology discovered by Tesla? Will we be able to receive our electricity freely which is universally present energy?
I am questioning the entire teaching that has been coming through Daniel because there has been absolutely no recognition of the oppressive Godless social realities under which we live. Any response whatsoever will be more than welcome either from you, Teacher Charles, Daniel or Roxanne. I am asking Rob to enter these questions into the discussion pages of the Daynal Scriptorium.
Thank you all. In Father's love, Marty
Rob wrote on tml: Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:00 PM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Neoconservatives do not have a monopoly on using amorality as protocols of conquest though readers of Daniel and Ron's political thought attributed to an Avonal Son and staff would think such is the preference of divinity. Such misconceptions are simply part of the legacy of Lucifer destined to disappear.
Rob wrote on tml: Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:35 PM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I look forward to any replies from those who constitute the team responsible for this literature to further clarify for unsuspecting readers the character of its composition. As ever, I will record the exchanges in the record's discussion page. For any who wish to contribute but remain anonymous, let it be known in your post so your identity will not be used in the record.
Rob wrote to the Advisory Board and tml: Sun, May 4, 2014 at 8:31 PM
Today, I have begun to make some changes in the structure of what is known as The Teaching Mission Dialogues.
- 1) The first is to assign a more vivid flag for questionable material.
- 2) Remove the icon associated with the Dialogues from such material.
- 3) Replace it one offering graphic reference to suspected disinformation.
- 4) Finally, for search purposes, the Dialogues category tag will no longer find these dubious files in the Dialogues though these records will be found under the name(s) of the responsible individuals.
This is a beginning of a much larger initiative to more prominently feature literature whose contribution to spiritual education is based upon intrinsic merit and not extrinsic authority. Naturally, I welcome your comments as they are most important to the ongoing task of building a planetary corpus of literature emblematic of advancing God-consciousness through the various epochs the heart of which is the Teaching Mission Dialogues representing so well the eternal dialogue of humanity and divinity.
1. The First Sutra - All spiritual teachings must be evaluated by their content, and not followed or rejected because of the celebrity of their supposed source. The time is long past on this planet when religion can be promulgated by asserting the authority of the teacher...it must be the teachings themselves and the effect they have on the students' lives, and not the claimed authority of their source that must be the final determinant in evaluating any religious teachings. - Will
May 5, 2014
Roxanne wrote on tml: Mon, May 5, 2014 at 1:20 AM
And who gets to determine which files are "questionable" or "dubious?" Do we have three Ancients of Days on our editorial staff?
Why not trust each reader to use their Spirit of Truth and their Thought Adjuster to guide them in evaluating each transcript for themselves? That's what we are here for, to make decisions, decisions and more decisions. If certain individuals attempt to make those decisions for others, it robs them of the experience of making their own decisions about what is true and what is not and growing their soul in the process.
There are no infallible mortals on our list that can be trusted to make correct evaluations for anyone else. Too many biased individuals poison the pot with their incorrect opinions and prejudices. I do not find these dialogues representing the "eternal dialogue of humanity and divinity," but of a few individuals trying to indoctrinate others with their intolerant opinions of other TRs, groups and sometimes even of celestial beings. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
Rob wrote on tml: Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:48 AM
You ask the cardinal question that must be addressed by those tasked with maintaining the record for historical purposes allowing each to discern for themselves if such decisions are in error..
If you do not find "these dialogues representing the "eternal dialogue of humanity and divinity," but of a few individuals trying to indoctrinate others with their intolerant opinions of other TRs, groups and sometimes even of celestial beings" perhaps you will cease to produce them. However, try as you may, there is not a thought in a any of our minds that is not composed by the admixture of humanity and divinity. Both are integral to the value we are giving to the realization of destiny.
For my part, I see them all as attempts by humanity to represent divinity, and the record of human history shows such an endeavor is a mixed bag of treasures and tricks.
Michelle wrote on tml: Mon, May 5, 2014 at 1:28 PM
If everyone who has a doubt about a certain TR or a certain transcript were to do with it as you want to do, then there would be several sites that mark up as "questionable" certain tr's and transcripts- but they'd all be marking up different transcripts from different TR's. Isn't this doing the same as all religions of the past have done? Blessing only certain passages that the leaders personally view as true? Kind of reminds me of the way the Bible was put together... only certain gospels were chosen. Kind of reminds me of how Christianity broke up into different sects as well. This is all just more acts of separation, of personal judgement against others' beliefs and experiences. It's all the same mistake Rob...
I've had to fight my own tendency to dismiss certain TR's too! If something doesn't resonate with me, the tendency is to dismiss. But, truth is, there have been portions of every TR's transcripts that at times did not resonate with me. Still, I would rather read them than not because there is always something in it that will resonate and help me grow in spirit and love.
When will we learn to just love and support one another's paths to God regardless of specific beliefs and experiences? It's the only way this world will ever reach light and life. Light and life cannot be built through the use of yet more separation. Haven't we seen this enough through history? Time and again "leaders" deciding what will be acceptable in a religion and what will be discarded? When you discard someone's experiences and beliefs, you discard the person themselves as well. This always fails to unite the world because it is just more separation! We should love one another and appreciate each person who is trying from their heart to reach God regardless of their specific experiences which are personal and just as real as any other.
Well, that's my own 2 cents on this subject....
Much love :), Mich
Rob wrote on tml: Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:03 PM
It is good to hear from you again! If nothing else has been accomplished by this recent decision, hearing from you and Roxanne will have been worth it.
As for Daniels' work in general, it has little if anything to do with religion as it is focused on the development of material infrastructure serving economic and political development. Charles has said it best "there are certain protocols involved in our work; they have nothing to do with morality or ethics".
This editorial decision has to do with assessing the value of purely journalistic comments that are found to be in error of material fact(s) while supporting partisan politics and is subject to change.
Michelle wrote on tml: Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:54 PM
I didn't go away, have always been reading, just haven't posted in ages due to moving. Been so busy, first moving, and now repairing and updating the new old (1960's) house we bought. Been making curtains too. Still so much to do here too.
Thanks for your hello... :) Love, Mich
Rob wrote on tml: Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:43 PM
I have amended the adjustments made yesterday. While retaining the strengthened disinformation warning, use of the disinformation image is now reserved for lessons with facts confirmed in error supporting partisan political interests. The Teaching Mission Dialogues category has been reinstated so all the effected lessons will be found contained within it notwithstanding reservations.
It is noted in various discussion pages how Daniel Raphael has made negative evaluations of the work of Ron Besser. In the past, such aspersions upon Daniel's work was made by Ron Besser. These represent but a small facet of the degree of dislike many persons have toward the work of others. It is the task of those entrusted with keeping the record to represent such divergent opinions.
Should anyone wish to dispute the assignment of either of these flags, they are invited to make their case in writing that will be posted in the discussion page and considered by the Editorial Board.
Dylan wrote on tml:Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:48 PM
I concur Michelle. There is also the truth that people have opposing belief systems but sincerely believe they are true.
Roxanne wrote on tml: Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:49 PM
Excellent, Michelle! Your 2 cents worth is a gold mine of wisdom and fruits of the spirit.
May 6, 2014
Rob wrote on tml: Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:55 AM
I am sorry no one here seems to be able to address your inquiry of May 4th. This suggests the vacuity of the teaching you question. It is my sense that Daniel's work may well prove to be related to the Magisterial Mission as Ron Besser's was to the Teaching Mission e.g. a most effective means of driving sincere persons of deep conviction underground until the resonance of truth becomes so clear on our world that there will be no place for the protocols of amoralty.
Rob wrote on tml: Tue, May 6, 2014 at 11:25 AM
For those who think sorting information from disinformation is not an essential editorial task as it relates to any initiatives tasked with transforming the world let alone those invested with real power should read the following article entitled - How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations found at this url - https://interc.pt/1c2qavq
Kurt Schluter wrote on tml: Tue, May 6, 2014 at 11:06 AM
I agree with Marty's assessment of the global political situation but must point out that the TM is aimed at individuals not cultures creating the needed changes that will be forced upon us by natural catastrophe and the destruction of existing political structure. This is where both Daniel and Ron's transmissions are important pieces to build upon going forward.
May 7, 2014
Marty wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 10:18 AM Dear Kurt, I don't think that I have ever known of your presence here on tml. Thanks for commenting on my post.
Though this thread is posted on tml, we are discussing the NEC #20 of the Magisterial Mission movement. NEC refers to New Age Conversations. Certainly the Correcting Time is a dynamic of both our individual inner lives and of our social experience here as it all happens. Don't you think that the planetary adjudication of the Luciferian mortal rebels is part and parcel of the correcting time on our world?
Our governments and courts and the military institutions on our world plus the economic system and other institutions such as education, social welfare, agriculture, trade and investment, religion, science, et al are all under the yoke of control by the Godless Luciferian rebel cabal which is running our world to its death. How will it be possible to "correct" our planetary evolutionary course without the final and complete adjudication of this rebellion on our world.
Our population is in hypnosis, under the mind-control and traumas conducted by these iniquitous rebels. It certainly seems to me that our supernal guides must have a plan for the salvation of this world.
Thanks again for your comments.
Rob wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:42 PM
As you asked me to post replies to the discussion page, I must ask did Kurt reply to you privately or on tml? I can't find his original post on tml for time stamping purposes, and if he posted to you privately, it may be inappropriate to include it in the discussion page. Nevertheless, I would reply to your query with the following.
1) Your world is making a transition between the time when might made right and when right will be valued for its own sake. Your people have not cherished righteousness, but power, so your nations do likewise. You are going through a time when people are recognizing the need for global restructuring, and will, when presented with positive leadership, respond and actually recreate the political structure of your world. But, all these things must be done in an entirely positive manner. There can be no stick, only carrots in the future world order.
It is good that your nation is going through a soul searching time now for the truth is its own power. The truth doesn't need money. The truth doesn't need self-gratification. When you find leaders among you who will represent the truth in its purity, you will find that corruption will fall away of its own. There is no area of your world where there is not corruption now, in the churches, in your educational system, your political system, all your businesses, everything. So, look well within your hearts and seek divine aid to purge the elements of corruption that exist there. - Ham
in regards to catastrophic adjustments referred to by so many that are ongoing
2) This activity that appears as prophecy is not the prediction of events to come but more correctly a demonstration of what can manifest through yourselves and a rally call to your fellows that they likewise can undertake the same and thereby accomplish the hoped-for conditions. Therefore, it is not the best orientation to speak of events as impinging upon you, something to be waited for. Instead, these apparently prophetic changes are instigated within you and will make their outworking obvious. So, when you do attempt to let it be known the kingdom of heaven is at hand, as your Master said 2000 years ago, underline the very principle that he taught, that the kingdom of heaven is within, that the expression of the great changes to come emerges from the well of deep relationship you have with the Father. That is all that is needed, that this be recognized. Your fellows may not seek the inner dialogue and not recognize this potential. It may appear as an event that will rise up and overcome them, but it is an event that will rise up and come from them. - Malvantra
and I would close with two citations from the Magisterial Mission
3) Many view the world as ‘out there’ interacting with them not realizing that they are in fact choosing the world that they will interact with. This choice may be changed, and when it does, the very nature of their surroundings follow suit with change. To many this may appear on the outside as if material manifestations are causing spiritual growth when in fact it is the growth which precedes the shift in material manifestation.
This is where pioneers in this new paradigm such as yourselves are important. Having traversed these understandings of spirit and matter and spirit content, then you become valuable guides to those who will be buffeted about by the interaction of spirit and its subsequent material manifestations. You who are growing to understand this connection will be valuable guides to many who have yet to understand this dynamic. - Monjoronson
In my view, the citations above point directly to the inner life as the source of life around us. Those who look around them for solutions are looking in the wrong direction. In truth, what we witness falling down around us is a result of the spiritual pressure of which our lives are a contribution.
4) Look all around you,(your world) is disintegrating, it is falling like a bridge that has been abandoned, and in some cases your infrastructure is literally burning. My friends, it is not as a result of malice. It is a result of the rising tide of illumination which has left behind these things of former association. - Monmacion
Marty wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:09 PM
There has been no private response Rob. Thank you for finding these clear teachings on this subject. We need constant reminders of these exegeses since we see only physical light through our eyes but truth through our hearts.
Rob wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:26 PM
You're welcome Marty! Unless Kurt says otherwise, I have included the comments in the discussion page.
Roxanne wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 3:54 PM
Rob, I couldn't disagree with you more. You obviously have missed what the Magisterial Mission is all about. Its purpose is not about "religion as such", but about saving the world's social structures from total collapse, so that someday Christ Michael's world of the Cross can reach the age of light and life. The Urantia Book is not a religion either, but an adjunct to all the world's religions; that's why we were cautioned to not build Urantian churches.
As for Charles' comment about "certain protocols," he didn't define it in the transcript directly, so you really do not know what the protocols are, do you? And your "assessing the value of purely journalistic comments that are found to be in error of material fact(s)" are also found to be in error of material facts. You have "opinions," not facts about the validity of Charles' comments. (Not everything you read on the Internet is true, and not everything you 'think' is true either.) Before you do more damage to Christ Michael's Correcting Time Plan, I suggest that you open your hearts and minds concerning your grave assumptions about the work others are doing in concert with Christ Michael, Machiventa and Monjoronson.
Rob wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 4:35 PM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
My knowledge of the Magisterial Mission is not derived from second hand sources. Reliance upon methods of indirection, though necessary in isolated worlds, is subject to interception and distortion.
As for the comments attributed to Charles, the record speaks for itself, and as such is a clear statement that deserves close attention by readers who value the role of morality in all decision making. The difference between facts and opinions is that the former is the domain of science, the latter philosophy. Both play a legitimate role in the construction of knowledge shaped by ongoing dialogue.
Happily, the Correcting Time, including the Magisterial Mission, is larger than any of its single facets.
Gerdean wrote: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 4:25 PM
The UB is not an 'adjunct' to anything in the world.
Kurt Schluter wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 4:31 PM
Any post I make is public.'
Roxanne wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 4:43 PM
Dear Rob and Marty, So sorry that the speed with which I answer emails does not fit your expectations--I do have a busy life beyond tml.
I see no point in answering your latest questions or commenting on the conclusions you have jumped to as you both have your minds made up and are unlikely to listen to anything I say. Some have been addressed by me in past emails.
Our work may not please you, but that is not our concern. The fact that we please Christ Michael, Monjoronson and Machiventa and several thousand readers of our transcripts is what is important. Our work will go forward as long as Christ Michael wishes us to continue.
Rob wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 5:07 PM
Thank you for your reply! What Marty longs for is the revelation of truth that is becoming more vivid as we speak. The corruption alluded to in Ham's discourse is being healed, one potent moment at a time.
Juan Juan wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:10 PM
Hold on, Old Gee, I perceive the book of books to be an adjunct to many things, to Reality, to Appreciation, to Understanding. I feel the term is well used.
The Magisterial Mission will instruct in the political and economic realms, while adjunct to our souls is our beloved Collection of Papers. --Juan
Gerdean wrote on tml: Wed, May 7, 2014 at 6:55 PM
Wordplay aside, I still don't see how the UB is an adjunct "to all the world's religions." Maybe that is just my limited comprehension capabilities. You don't need to bite my head off for having an opinion. Of course it is an adjunct to truth, beauty and goodness, and all things bright and beautiful. In the context I read it, it did not make sense. Still doesn't. But, as I said, it might be my inability to comprehend Roxanne's superior wisdom.
May 8, 2014
Marty wrote on tml: Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:38 AM
Thanks for your note below (see above). I was not expecting a speedy response from you. It is true that I was well aware of the reasons for your discernment and mine as merely a difference of opinion and not value judgements of eternal truth. We are all in this sandbox together building sandcastles of Father's sand.
Our Father, Friend, and Brother Christ Michael loves us all and approves of our activities as a proud Father. As long as we sincerely carry out your ministries we are surely in his Kingdom, doing His work.
Please realize that as much as I disagree with Daniel's transcripts, I remain thankful for his and your work. Let us find a way to share this sandbox together in His Light of Truth.
In Father's love, Marty