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==May 7, 2013==
'''Ron Besser posted to tml Tue, May 7, 2013 at 7:03 PM:'''
'''Ron Besser posted to tml Tue, May 7, 2013 at 7:03 PM:'''
Surely Gerdean, if RON BESSER channels Michael of Nebadon saying we're in for nasty weather, AND all the previous wisdom based universal rules of conduct have been suddenly suspended, we can decide on the basis of his previous prognostications...NONE of which have ever come to pass, whether this newest bit of purportedly morontia gleaned scuttlebutt is likely to be so...and/or a manipulative ploy...or not?
Surely Gerdean, if RON BESSER channels Michael of Nebadon saying we're in for nasty weather, AND all the previous wisdom based universal rules of conduct have been suddenly suspended, we can decide on the basis of his previous prognostications...NONE of which have ever come to pass, whether this newest bit of purportedly morontia gleaned scuttlebutt is likely to be so...and/or a manipulative ploy...or not?
==May 8, 2013==
'''Rob posted to tml Tue, May 8, 2013 at 3:35 PM'''
'''Rob posted to tml Tue, May 8, 2013 at 3:35 PM'''
I dunno Craig, the only person who ever sounds all that upset to me is Ron, whenever anyone doesn't buy into his 'stuff'...
I dunno Craig, the only person who ever sounds all that upset to me is Ron, whenever anyone doesn't buy into his 'stuff'...
==May 9, 2013==
'''Jim Cleveland posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 9:05 AM'''
Hi Craig, appreciate your thoughts. I'm busy with many projects and don't post regularly. And get few replies when I do.
It is all related to those who see Ron as having personality deficiencies and resent the internet organization he's arbitrarily created without democracy and don't believe that Monjoronson exists.
They don't directly challenge the Monjoronsons of Colorado, Florida, California and the Pacific Northwest. These are other people. But they see Ron as creating a fantasy world with transmitters they don't even know in any respect. And much of this prophecy has proven wrong, wrong, wrong.
This quartet of people each has their own reasons for being anti-Ron and they state them periodically as this list ebbs and flows through the years. Ron feels obligated, I guess, to use the TML and said he hopes the logjam here is cleared at some time.
This is just a list, of course. We represent the TM at www.teachingmissionnetwork.com and at the Network's Facebook site. We try to respect those who join with Monjoronson and those who fight him. Free will planet, of course.
All of this is temporal. Let's just learn, create and share while we're here.
love, jim
'''Rob posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 10:16 AM'''
Jim,
The point of order is missed when you think human behavior has no legal restrictions. Our freedom is not derived from the external realm but the inner life. No one quibbles with Ron's spirituality, but his using material work of others as a platform to promote his personal theology while denigrating those he ostensibly represents.
Rob
'''Jim posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 10:50 AM'''
Jim
Then go ahead and sue Starbridge and continue your long-standing battle from being massively disgruntled at him personally. I'll wait for the court decision.
Our freedom is what we assert. And we can argue endlessly and stand adamantly on its behalf. You are free to disagree.
When you say the Magisterial Mission is Ron's promotion of personal theology, do you think that's true for all the rest of the Monjoronson transmitters? A serious charge. Prove it.
When you say he denigrates TM people, does that mean that he is honest and candid in his reply to an exorbitant amount of condemnation with SORG? Isn't he really denigrating the charges, not the person? I can recall many posts in which Ron has been kind and considerate of Gerdean's concerns and gracious in his statements.
The 'material work' of others consists of transmissions given freely by the celestials and which they would like to share. Ron has been sharing them for over 20 years and they still say what they say.
Suing for damages might be difficult indeed.
'''Rob posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 11:22 AM'''
I chose not to pursue a court resolution but to allow the fruit of his actions to run full course. The liberty of faith children of God is not a license to commit theft and fraud though sectarian inspiration argues otherwise.
The Magisterial Mission does not constitute Ron's personal theology thought it forms a part of it. Again, personal theology is not a concern of law. Material property is however.
If you wish to act as public defender for Ron Besser, I wish you well. Expertise as a public relations writer for education in Mississippi will complement the Starbridge reliance on Las Vegas law.
'''Steffani posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 12:11 PM'''
Technically speaking, this list may not even actually exist anymore...
'''Jim posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 12:11 PM'''
Well, la-di-da.
I'm not Ron's public defender but it remains for you to substantiate charges of theft and fraud without carelessly letting them fly over the internet. If you won't put up in a court of law, why don't you shut up trying to make us believe your charges. Show some evidence.
In the beginning, TML files were willingly and gladly transported/shared with Ron and the emerging Starbridge by webmaster Russ Gustafson and others in the Teaching Mission. As far as I know, they are still flowing from TM to TM Archives. Has anyone fought to stop the flow? No. It must be okay.
The transcripts flow everywhere else too, including Daynal. The fact that they are used in the Archives via TML does not preclude any transmitter from doing anything she wishes with her transmitted 'work.' Where are the damages?
I've criticized Ron myself for his arbitrary attitudes and actions in building his domain, and trusting in the purported messages from people that don't ring true and whom I don't know from anybody and are proven wrong. But such organizations as Starbridge, CCC, HARP, O'Dell-Bowen, Truth-Seekers, etc. are not beholden to the Teaching Mission Network and administer themselves as they wish. And not being on the board, I know little or nothing about what they do. They can be as arbitrary and decisive as they want. And so can the other orgs.
If there were actually malfeasance, corruption, etc. in any organization, I don't expect the Network would take a donation from them. But your charges mean nothing to me. You might just be disgruntled because Starbridge didn't do it your way. These transmissions in the Archives are no more stolen than the ones we use on any number of other websites. They were published on TML and have been re-published many times since. They are in permanent archives. Too late to close that barn door. But where are the damages?
The credibility of the Teaching Mission? Ha! Gimme a break. Who even knows about it? And on Ron's site the basic TM transcripts are listed and compiled SEPARATELY from the other stuff; that was done on purpose. Why? Because these are separate missions.
And if you want to seem less personally biased against Ron, go ahead and attack transmitters in four other states who regularly transmit Monjoronson. May as well blow the whole thing open by calling a number of other good people frauds too. Why be shy? After all, Monjoronson does not exist and you do. Time to take a broader stand. And Calvinism still reigns in Salt Lake City, so you can get an ally there, though one that probably requires a repudiation of Daniel in Colorado and the rest of the "Anything Goes' anti-Christ forces he sees in his brain.
Oh well, I jest. It's clear that, in the human mind, anything really does go. And it keeps going.
We will accept the gift from Starbridge and any other organization that considers the publication of our Teaching Mission history volumes to be a good thing. You've given me no good reason why we shouldn't. They are innocent of 'theft and fraud' in the absence of evidence.
'''Rob posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 12:11 PM'''
Jim,
You fail to distinguish between the personal and professional. TMArchives claims copyright over all the content on the site This is fraudulent in itself. No rights have been assigned by the authors to Starbridge. Over $10,000 was given to Starbridge by Teaching Mission participants who were later denied any regard for how their "property' was to be used. If that was not bad enough, Ron Besser personally requested in writing that the Starbridge Board return the asset called "the archives" to him. When he and the Board realized this was against the law, he physically took possession. As the Board complied with his illegal request, they are complicit in the infraction. Nevertheless, when the state of North Carolina asked me for authorization to transfer registry of Starbridge to the state of Pennsylvania, I chose then to allow the natural course to find its own equilibrium. Since then, all the board members have resigned citing Ron's inability to work with them e.g. under the by-laws of the corporation. Worse still, all but a remnant of the Teaching Mission groups have disappeared following this default of trust by Starbridge. The more recent frenzy of apocalyptic pronouncements have only underscored the lack of credibility occupying an otherwise legally chartered organization. Alas, Starbridge lives by virtue of the law under which it was chartered and in spite of Ron Besser's 'behavior' inspired by his theology. Until such time as Starbridge is either dissolved or corrected, the name we know as The Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission suffers from association with theft and fraud.
Gratefully,
Rob
'''Rob posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 12:58 PM'''
Its surviving 'owner' has retired from any concern with it. Its disappearance is a matter of time. It functions by virtue of its original investment of resources much like Starbridige does.
'''Jim posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 1:15PM'''
Rob,
You should go to the authorities with these charges. I am sure Ron can answer all of them and probably already has, but none of this is my concern. Starbridge deserves a day in court and charges, like mud, has to stick. I'm not going to reject their gift on hearsay and unproven charges.
I don't see theft and fraud yet, you haven't answered my replies to that, shown me any damages or any way that Ron has retarded the Teaching Mission at all.
Copyright is ordinarily obtained for the contents of websites. You know this. All site owners are frauds then.
Or perhaps they are copyrighting the entire presentation of the site and not the individual components. Much as copyrights are issued for the Bible and the Urantia Book. If I run someone's essay on my site, I couldn't even begin to copyright it for myself.
I am sure that any lessons pulled from the TM Archives can be used without restriction. Ron does not control teachers or transmitters or their transmissions, nor does he seek to.
The Teaching Mission remains free, after all these years, to forge its own identity. But it has beset itself with personality discords and critical judgments of other people's beliefs.
Who are the current members of the Starbridge board? I'd like to email them for comments. I would like to also affirm from Roxanne and Daniel that, even after resigning from Starbridge, that they still support his work. I would also like to affirm if the Northwest group supports Ron and the Magisterial Mission or you. How does silent Russ feel about it? How many Monjoronson transmitters believe he's fraudulent? Just the one?
'''Michael McCray posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 1:22PM'''
What's that Steffani?
'''Jim posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 1:26PM'''
So if the surviving and disinterested and silent owner is Russ, maybe he'd like to turn over the discussion group to an entity, like Starbridge, in return for requiring that e-mailed transmissions be published expediently and continually on a dedicated TM Archives set-up. But wait .... that's already being done, I believe.
I don't believe any restrictions were made regarding any other differentiated content on the site. We could add a disclaimer onto the pure TM lessons, if we can ascertain them, and sever any relationship to TR we don't believe or agree with. Our transmissions are good but we don't condone any others.
This hosting would show Ron's ecumenical side in that he provides a forum for SORG and a few other commentators to berate him. Lovely example of turn the other cheek.
SORG might well get rankled over the new list ownership and look for its own server. Maybe Yahoo .....
In the meantime, maybe Russ is wise just to stay out of it.
jim
'''Gerdean posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 1:44PM'''
In this instance, it is not about Monjoronson who, by now, to anybody, ought to be clear is a joke. Que Sera se Ra.
In this instance, the problem is the announcement that Thea, liberated from the confines of the flesh some years ago, has come waltzing into Mr. Besser's mind from the ethers. Not long ago, Mark Rogers and Henry Zeringe both alleged to be transmitting Rick Giles, our comrade who was also liberated from the confines of the flesh some years ago. The UB makes it clear (somewhere) that it is not permitted for mortals to make contact with their planet of nativity, and yet Mark, Henry and Ron have all opted to cross that line and push that boundary. The difference is that Mark and Henry are mere T/R's, while Ron is an administrator. He has power. And he is misusing his power to teach untruths, evidently because they garnet "hits" on his website.
My contention is that Ron Besser is not only guilty of yellow journalism -- he doesn't care a whit about the responsibilities of teaching truth, beauty and goodness (which what this mission is all about) -- he is guilty of treason! He has sold our spiritual integrity down the river for popularity.
Just remember, Jim, he who signs the checks holds the power. You let Mr. Besser pay for the publication of your book (OUR book, about the Teaching Mission, to which our stories have been contributed in faith), he will own you. Mark my words. In fact, it looks like he has you where he wants you, even now.
'''Rob posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 2:02PM'''
Jim,
Once again, I decided years ago to let this matter takes it natural course, and we are seeing this unfold now as we have over the past 6 or 7 years. Otherwise, all questions concerning Starbridge 'business' should be directed to its current President. As far as I am concerned, the Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission are components of a larger program of spiritual education seeking materialization in and through 'us', each and all.
Looking forward,
Rob
'''Jim posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 2:22PM'''
Such crap. None of you folks has any power over me. And I've been hearing your diatribes for years and years and years -- in an ever-widening arena with more and more targets and I still don't see any of your targets as guilty of anything.
The Teaching Mission is unprecedented and unique. So is the Correcting Time. It's possible that Michael and the teachers want to build this bridge between the human and the ascender. Who are you to say it's impossible or a fraud or self-delusion since you don't really have any idea. You credit yourself with great knowledge but rely on it being in a book from many decades ago. There is nothing about Michael's Correcting Time mission in there.
The book was printed and distributed a long time ago with information that could be presented at the time. Now, we are moving forward in spirit consciousness and all things related.
Change is more constant than most things.
And ..... I retain my spiritual integrity. None of you folks matter in that regard.
And .... I don't see that false transmissions from Ron's crew translates into popularity for him. You don't make yourself popular with erroneous information. He must have other motivations, as do we all.
Thanks anyway. You have now officially disdained all of the Teaching Mission groups in the country except for Calvin's. And even though Calvin disdains us all, the fact that he disdains Ron specifically makes you throw in with him.
The Teaching Mission history has always been OUR history. Ron is a contributor and has long been a part of the project. I have remained determined not to let the Monjo vs. Anti-Monjo conflict stop the book and I am determined not to let this ever-festering boil stop the financing of it either.
later, jim
'''Gerdean posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 3:05PM'''
Would it come as any surprise to you, JIm, that I would like my story to be removed from your collection of testimonies? In as much as you have so little regard for my mission in life, which is indissolubly tied in with the Urantia Papers, perhaps it would far better serve everyone concerned if we just nip it in the bud right here and take me out before it goes any further. I have already wasted a lot of valuable time and gained too much notoriety from my unwilling association with Mr. Besser's TMArchives; I really don't look forward to further notoriety through his Teaching Mission History.
I submitted my story in good faith that this was a Teaching Mission book, and was based on the premise that the Teaching Mission was a UB-based movement. As it is developing, there is so little to connect the two, the TeaM has been reduced to what "they" say it is -- a sham, piggy-backing on the revelation, without a leg to stand on. I didn't sign up for this. The premise of the book has changed since I submitted my story. I have not changed, but the book has changed, and now that it is being financed by Starbridge -- an organization that came into being through fraudulent means, that solicits funds for material it had no right to in the first place, it has, again, gone too far.
And while we're at it, maybe you'd better remove me from the Teaching Mission Network, as well. I'm not in this to make a name for myself, or to sell books or CDs, or to gain entry into the New Age culture. I am here to teach friendship with a personal God.
'''Jim posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 6:31PM'''
Well, well. Pretty interesting stuff. Will get back to you later. I have an important appointment to go over and help a friend fold up some highway maps.
jim
ps I will note that you now have a perfect record of leaving all movements in a huff with new people added to your shit list. You don't stay the course and work within organizations but you do some good work while you're there.
'''Rob posted to tml Wed, May 9, 2013 at 6:32PM'''
But they do have power over their work and rightly so. Any who uses the work of others for any purpose do well to treat them with utmost respect for without them, the purpose withers.
<blockquote>"On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Jim Cleveland <jamescleveland@tds.net> wrote:"</blockquote>
<blockquote>"None of you folks has any power over me."</blockquote>
