Changes

I thank you for [[listening]] to my [[passionate]] rendition and now Daniel and I will open the floor to your [[participation]]. Are there questions, comments? Please feel free.

I thank you for [[listening]] to my [[passionate]] rendition and now Daniel and I will open the floor to your [[participation]]. Are there questions, comments? Please feel free.

===Dialogue===

===Dialogue===

Virginia: Teachers, I know that at times this has been touched upon, certainly there was specific reference to it by Minearisa, that some, when they wake up on the mansion worlds, will curse, as you have said and others will be pleasantly surprised. And I can't help but think of many friends that probably I can see on both sides of that experience. I guess my question is, those that would profess atheism here, what immediate new information that God is good (do they get)? They wake up. That's a lot for me. I am just wondering what can change their mind so that they see the God of love that we believe exists

Virginia: Teachers, I know that at times this has been [[touched]] upon, certainly there was specific reference to it by Minearisa, that some, when they [[wake]] up on the [[mansion worlds]], will [[curse]], as you have said and others will be pleasantly [[surprised]]. And I can't help but think of many [[friends]] that probably I can see on both sides of that [[experience]]. I guess my question is, those that would profess [[atheism]] here, what immediate new [[information]] that God is [[good]] (do they get)? They [[wake]] up. That's a lot for me. I am just wondering what can [[change]] their [[mind]] so that they see the God of love that we [[believe]] exists

Minearisa (Bill): I am Minearisa. I will respond. You see, someone who is a convinced atheist dies at the end of their lives with the belief that they will never regain consciousness, that they cease to exist. They have for longer or shorter periods of their mortal life structured their universe reality along these lines of great despair, perhaps. Upon awakening in the resurrection halls of Mansonia #1 these individuals are often completely disoriented and confused. They do not instantly become believers in the existence of God. It takes a great deal of contact with the teaching and education of the first mansion world for them to become persons of faith. Their survival of death does not automatically convey the world view of a believer in the magnificence and love of God, and whether they verbally curse when they realize that they are awakened or whether they despair in their hearts, always is there the opportunity when all information is available to each mortal survivor for the choice to be made, whether to throw in the towel or whether to continue and affirm the ascension career. I am not giving you a complete answer about every mortal for I do not know that research, but this is some of what I have been able to glean from survivors from the rebellion planets in particular. Do you wish further commentary?

Minearisa (Bill): I am Minearisa. I will respond. You see, someone who is a convinced [[atheist]] dies at the end of their lives with the [[belief]] that they will never regain [[consciousness]], that they cease to exist. They have for longer or shorter periods of their mortal life [[structured]] their universe [[reality]] along these lines of great despair, perhaps. Upon [[awakening]] in the [[resurrection halls]] of [[Mansonia #1]] these individuals are often completely disoriented and [[confused]]. They do not instantly become believers in the [[existence]] of God. It takes a great deal of contact with the teaching and [[education]] of the [[first mansion world]] for them to become persons of [[faith]]. Their [[survival]] of [[death]] does not [[automatically]] convey the world view of a believer in the [[magnificence]] and love of God, and whether they verbally [[curse]] when they realize that they are [[awakened]] or whether they despair in their [[hearts]], always is there the [[opportunity]] when all information is available to each mortal survivor for the [[choice]] to be made, whether to throw in the towel or whether to continue and affirm the [[ascension career]]. I am not giving you a complete answer about every [[mortal]] for I do not know that [[research]], but this is some of what I have been able to glean from [[survivors]] from the [[rebellion planets]] in particular. Do you wish further [[commentary]]?

Virginia: No, Minearisa. Thank you for that explanation.

Virginia: No, Minearisa. Thank you for that [[explanation]].

Minearisa (Bill): Does that fulfill your expectation? What do you think?

Minearisa (Bill): Does that fulfill your [[expectation]]? What do you think?

Virginia: I think it fits my expectations. I guess I don't really know what my expectations are, Minearisa. I am thinking of people that I know and love, and respect, and I would like to believe that they just rejected religion and the various definitions of God that they've heard. I don't know. I want the glow of the angels to happen for them so that they know—that they are pleasantly surprised.

Virginia: I think it fits my [[expectations]]. I guess I don't really know what my expectations are, Minearisa. I am [[thinking]] of people that I know and [[love]], and [[respect]], and I would like to believe that they just [[rejected]] [[religion]] and the various definitions of God that they've heard. I don't know. I want the [[glow]] of [[the angels]] to happen for them so that they know—that they are pleasantly [[surprised]].

Minearisa (Bill): You are largely correct in that most atheists have rejected the concepts of God. Very, very few have truly had enough information to reject the career of ascension. However, there are some, not necessarily atheists, who have allowed their minds to drift into evil, sin and iniquity to the point of no return, not many, and fortunately not often. They have deprived the God of experience of one aspect of the completion of the Supreme and their failure to be there can never be replaced with exactly their contribution, but will be replaced with another. Another question or comment?

Minearisa (Bill): You are largely correct in that most [[atheists]] have [[rejected]] the [[concepts]] of [[God]]. Very, very few have truly had enough [[information]] to reject the career of [[ascension]]. However, there are some, not necessarily atheists, who have allowed their minds to drift into [[evil]], [[sin]] and [[iniquity]] to the point of no return, not many, and fortunately not often. They have deprived the [[God]] of [[experience]] of one aspect of the completion of the [[Supreme]] and their [[failure]] to be there can never be replaced with exactly their contribution, but will be replaced with another. Another [[question]] or comment?

Ken: Yes, Minearisa and Daniel and our visiting artisan. I believe that is what she was. I thank you Minearisa for this lesson that you have given us on the way the Melchizadek school is being conducted, the intimacy of the contact between the teacher or professor if you prefer, with the student. I thank you for recapping and answering the question that I presented to the Father about my doubts that I had. I thank you for that. It has answered some questions, but I would like to ask you personally for me, what do I fear most in accepting the will of the Father? How can I overcome this doubt of my expression of wanting to express the will. I don't know if I made myself clear. I have doubts of my ability.

Daniel (Bill): My dear friend, I am Daniel speaking. Your experience of doubt as I understand it is largely a matter of cultural conditioning. The concept of God as a punisher, while consciously being repugnant to you, was nevertheless a part of your [[cultural]] [[experience]]; and by that I am not restricting it to any particular [[environment]]. In the culture of the United States of America there has been a complete plethora of [[opinions]], preachments, [[warnings]] and threats that God is an [[angry]] [[parent]] who keeps a record of wrongs and has appropriate punishments for those erring children that He wishes to inflict [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tough_love tough love] on, or some version of this. I am not saying that you ever personally [[believed]] that, but in the [[unconscious]] mind all these messages reside and one can only lose their [[fear]] of [[doing the will of God]] when they lose their fear of God himself--every last vestige of fear, when they can understand that the Father is nothing but enormously [[generous]] [[love]]. He has no interest in [[punishment]], no interest in [[torture]]. That is [[obscene]] in his eyes. He only desires the [[growth]], the flourishing, the blossoming of each of his children. That is his will for each child, and in order to do that He needs to be in [[intimate]] [[interface]] with each child. So the cultural stuff is there in the [[unconscious]]. It needs to be completely looked at [[intellectually]] so there can be no trace of a [[rationale]] for a [[belief]] in an [[angry]], vengeful, punishing, monstrous [[concept]] of our loving God.

Daniel (Bill): My dear friend, I am Daniel speaking. Your experience of doubt as I understand it is largely a matter of cultural conditioning. The concept of God as a punisher, while consciously being repugnant to you, was nevertheless a part of your cultural experience; and by that I am not restricting it to any particular environment. In the culture of the United States of America there has been a complete plethora of opinions, preachments, warnings and threats that God is an angry parent who keeps a record of wrongs and has appropriate punishments for those erring children that He wishes to inflict tough love on, or some version of this. I am not saying that you ever personally believed that, but in the unconscious mind all these messages reside and one can only lose their fear of doing the will of God when they lose their fear of God himself--every last vestige of fear, when they can understand that the Father is nothing but enormously generous love. He has no interest in punishment, no interest in torture. That is obscene in his eyes. He only desires the growth, the flourishing, the blossoming of each of his children. That is his will for each child, and in order to do that He needs to be in intimate interface with each child. So the cultural stuff is there in the unconscious. It needs to be completely looked at intellectually so there can be no trace of a rationale for a belief in an angry, vengeful, punishing, monstrous concept of our loving God.

And [[logically]] whose will is probably more beneficial for the [[individual]]? Their own [[limited]], [[finite]], [[ego]]-driven will, or the [[goal]] and direction of that [[Ta|perfect Fragment]] of the divine within who has chosen you and chosen to go with you forever—to become through you truly [[personal]] at the same time that you become fully enhanced in that perfect [[marriage]] of [[fusion]]. Has this been of any [[assistance]], my friend?

And logically whose will is probably more beneficial for the individual? Their own limited, finite, ego-driven will, or the goal and direction of that perfect Fragment of the divine within who has chosen you and chosen to go with you forever—to become through you truly personal at the same time that you become fully enhanced in that perfect marriage of fusion. Has this been of any assistance, my friend?

Ken: You're telling me that I still have [[fears]] of a vengeful God.

Daniel (Bill): At an [[unconscious]] level because of the cultural [[milieu]] in which every child in this country on [[this planet]] lives.

 

Daniel (Bill): At an unconscious level because of the cultural milieu in which every child in this country on this planet lives.

Ken: OK.

Ken: OK.

Daniel (Bill): I know that you do not feel that you were taught this kind of God in you childhood. Is that not true?

Daniel (Bill): I know that you do not feel that you were taught this kind of God in you [[childhood]]. Is that not true?

Ken: That is true.

Ken: That is true.

Daniel (Bill): I am saying, Ken, that still this fraud of fear is foisted upon this planet. You will have to learn by your own experience that the will of God is good and tasty and delicious and satisfying. And my friend you have made considerable progress in my opinion!

Daniel (Bill): I am saying, Ken, that still this [[fraud]] of [[fear]] is foisted upon [[this planet]]. You will have to learn by your own [[experience]] that the will of God is [[good]] and tasty and delicious and [[satisfying]]. And my friend you have made considerable [[progress]] in my [[opinion]]!

Ken: I value your opinion. Thank you, Daniel. You have loaded my plate again this evening. Thank you.

Ken: I [[value]] your [[opinion]]. Thank you, Daniel. You have loaded my plate again this evening. Thank you.

Daniel (Bill): Do not be overly distressed with my emphasis upon the cultural aspects and do not take any responsibility for those messages personally. It is a form of abuse, for Lucifer, his rebellion, was abusive. He presented falsehood as truth, and not only tried to persuade but was successful in persuading millions of will creatures, angels, midwayers, you name it, to believe in the malevolence of the Michael order of Creators, that they purposely made up a fictitious God in order to enhance their own power, that they were not to be trusted. You see, this is the cultural milieu that I am really using as the back drop of all this. The rebellion planets of Satania have nothing like the normal experience of a planet whose spiritual administration is intact, who's Adam and Eve are there to talk with and see, and to uplift as they do so well. Great is your struggle, all of you on this world! I tell you that for I come from a world well advanced in light and life. And the things that we behold on this planet are shocking; while the progress that you all make is absolutely amazing.

Daniel (Bill): Do not be overly distressed with my emphasis upon the [[cultural]] aspects and do not take any [[responsibility]] for those messages personally. It is a form of [[abuse]], for [[Lucifer]], [[Lucifer Rebellion|his rebellion]], was abusive. He presented [[falsehood]] as [[truth]], and not only tried to persuade but was successful in persuading millions of will [[creatures]], [[angels]], [[midwayers]], you name it, to believe in the [[malevolence]] of the [[Michael]] order of [[Creator Sons|Creators]], that they purposely made up a [[fictitious]] God in order to enhance their own [[power]], that they were not to be [[trusted]]. You see, this is the cultural [[milieu]] that I am really using as the backdrop of all this. The [[rebellion planets]] of [[Satania]] have nothing like the [[normal]] experience of a planet whose [[spiritual administration]] is intact, who's [[Adam and Eve]] are there to talk with and see, and to uplift as they do so well. Great is your [[struggle]], all of you on [[this world]]! I tell you that for I come from a world well advanced in [[light and life]]. And the things that we behold on this planet are [[shocking]]; while the [[progress]] that you all make is absolutely amazing.

Ken: Thank you.

Ken: Thank you.

Daniel (Bill): You are welcome.

Daniel (Bill): You are welcome.

Minearisa (Bill): I am Minearisa. The frequent mention of non-survival in the [[Urantia Book]] is due to the [[experience]] of very [[primitive men]] and women whose minds had not evolved to the extent that [[survival]] was a [[majority]] experience. That's part of the answer. And [[Thought Adjusters]] gain great experience themselves in working with these [[primitive]] individuals, few of whom actually [[attain]] survival.

 

Minearisa (Bill): I am Minearisa. The frequent mention of non-survival in the Urantia Book is due to the experience of very primitive men and women whose minds had not evolved to the extent that survival was a majority experience. That's part of the answer. And Thought Adjusters gain great experience themselves in working with these primitive individuals, few of whom actually attain survival.

But your question had more to do with the person who had a bonafide chance of marriage with their adjuster and turns down the prospect. You see, in order for that decision to occur there must be a full understanding of the ramifications of accepting or rejecting the ascension career. On this planet with its distortion of truth such an opportunity for such an understanding is almost never occurring. The result is, then, that these decisions are more frequently made on the other side of mortal death. When the book says a non-survivor, it does not necessarily imply that the decision is made in mortal life. As to percentages I am not familiar, nor permitted to discuss that, my friend.

But your question had more to do with the person who had a bonafide [[chance]] of [[Adjuster fusion|marriage with their Adjuster]] and turns down the prospect. You see, in order for that [[decision]] to occur there must be a full [[understanding]] of the ramifications of [[accepting]] or [[rejecting]] the [[ascension career]]. On [[this planet]] with its [[distortion]] of [[truth]] such an opportunity for such an understanding is almost never occurring. The result is, then, that these decisions are more frequently made on the [[Afterlife|other side of mortal death]]. When the book says a non-survivor, it does not necessarily imply that the decision is made in mortal life. As to percentages I am not familiar, nor [[permitted]] to discuss that, my friend.

What matters is that you have made that choice. You have betrothed yourself to your Adjuster. You have made what we call the supreme betrothal, the engagement, the commitment to marriage, to fusion. Ultimately you can never make that decision for any other person. You may try to influence, you may try to portray the loving God whose journey is nothing but pure pleasure despite the struggles, but you can't choose for them. About all I am allowed to say is, do not become like your population of TV watchers who hear bad news repeated so often that they feel that perhaps the majority of life on the planet is dismal and frightening. Emotionally they feel that, not intellectually. But realize that when the revelators write about non-survivors it is such an appalling decision for one who understands the joys of ascension to see another person self extinguish, that it is hard to describe those terms without a certain cast of reproach, a certain attribution of laziness in the tone.

What matters is that you have made that [[choice]]. You have [[betrothed]] yourself to your [[Adjuster]]. You have made what we call the [[supreme betrothal]], the engagement, the [[commitment]] to marriage, to [[fusion]]. Ultimately you can never make that decision for any other person. You may try to [[influence]], you may try to portray the loving God whose [[journey]] is nothing but pure [[pleasure]] despite the struggles, but you can't choose for them. About all I am allowed to say is, do not become like your [[population]] of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television TV watchers] who hear bad news repeated so often that they [[feel]] that perhaps the [[majority]] of life on [[the planet]] is dismal and [[frightening]]. Emotionally they feel that, not [[intellectually]]. But realize that when the revelators write about non-survivors it is such an appalling [[decision]] for one who [[understands]] the [[joys]] of [[ascension]] to see another person self extinguish, that it is hard to describe those terms without a certain cast of reproach, a certain attribution of [[laziness]] in the [[tone]].

For God the Supreme we have to do something, we have to become. Our potentials have to become actualized. That is our task. To serve the God of experience we have to share our experience with him. God the Supreme is really more like a mother. We are born in the womb of God the Supreme and we are her children. To throw in the towel, to commit cosmic suicide is a terrible insult to our mother. Be glad, as the Master told his disciples, that your names are written in heaven because you have chosen the grace, the love, and the fellowship journey to the Source of your life.

For [[God the Supreme]] we have to do something, we have to [[become]]. Our [[potentials]] have to become actualized. That is our task. To serve the God of [[experience]] we have to [[share]] our experience with him. God the Supreme is really more like a [[mother]]. We are born in the [[womb]] of God the Supreme and we are her children. To throw in the towel, to commit [[cosmic]] [[suicide]] is a terrible insult to our mother. Be glad, as [[the Master]] told his [[disciples]], that your names are [[Book of Life|written in heaven]] because you have chosen the [[grace]], the [[love]], and the fellowship [[journey]] to [[the Source]] of your [[life]].

===Closing===

===Closing===

The hour has gone by quickly and we will now terminate our meeting. Aaron would like us to stand and hold hands while he pronounces a benediction.

The hour has gone by quickly and we will now terminate our [[meeting]]. Aaron would like us to stand and hold hands while he pronounces a [[benediction]].

Aaron (Bill): I am Aaron, your brother. As we hold hands recognizing our brotherhood and sisterhood, our common status as children of one God, I ask you each to lift up your souls and offer them again to the light of the love of God which can illumine every corner of them with life giving energy. Father of fathers Who dwells in light inaccessible in the glory of Your home in Paradise, we your children point our hearts towards You. We desire to learn all we can as we romp through Your universe of infinite potentials and find them expressed more and more completely in us. We know that we are a family and that we are needed each to the other, to be brother and sister. We know in this way we reflect Your magnificent love for You desired to create personalities that You could have communion with. Look down upon these my little brothers and sisters who have given of their time tonight to be here, and in Your looking let them turn their eyes to see that Your face of love gazes without reservation upon each one. And now send them forth with joy and lightness to do the work which You desire of them even as did Jesus our Sovereign pray: "Nevertheless not what I desire, but Your will be done." So be it. Amen.

Aaron (Bill): I am Aaron, your brother. As we hold hands recognizing our [[Siblinghood|brotherhood and sisterhood]], our common [[status]] as children of one God, I ask you each to lift up your [[souls]] and offer them again to the [[light]] of the [[love]] of God which can [[illumine]] every corner of them with life giving [[energy]]. Father of fathers Who dwells in light inaccessible in the [[glory]] of Your [[home]] in [[Paradise]], we your children point our [[hearts]] towards You. We [[desire]] to learn all we can as we romp through [[Master Universe|Your universe]] of infinite potentials and find them [[expressed]] more and more completely in us. We know that we are a [[family]] and that we are needed each to the other, to be brother and sister. We know in this way we [[reflect]] Your magnificent [[love]] for You [[desired]] to create [[personalities]] that You could have [[communion]] with. Look down upon these my little brothers and sisters who have given of their [[time]] tonight to be here, and in Your looking let them turn their eyes to see that Your [[face]] of [[love]] gazes without reservation upon each one. And now send them forth with [[joy]] and lightness to do the work which You [[desire]] of them even as did [[Jesus]] [[Master Son|our Sovereign]] pray: "Nevertheless not what I [[desire]], but Your will be done." So be it. [[Amen]].

[[Category: The Teaching Mission: Dialogues]]

[[Category: The Teaching Mission: Dialogues]]

[[Category: Bill K.]]

[[Category: Bill K.]]

[[Category: Bob S.]]

[[Category: Bob S.]]

[[Category: Resurrection]]

[[Category: Celestial Artisans]]

[[Category: Rejection]]

[[Category: 1999]]

[[Category: 1999]]