Changes

===Dialogue===

===Dialogue===

Nancy: "If you would like a reaction, an honest reaction rather than a question or whatever I guess I am willing to take that role tonight. I had a couple of thoughts but my initial reaction was to Daniel when you said for us to take the longer view, I think that really is an impossible thing for us to do because it is asking us to do something which is beyond our experience! Although now I can look back to childhood easily and understand children I can remember being a child and thinking about being a grownup and being assured that that would never happen, because it was so long and far away. Even though I knew intellectually that someday I would be a grownup, an adult, my emotional reaction was, no, I will never be a grownup, never be an adult. And so that's how I feel when that is given as..I was sort of in and out but I interpreted to be as solace to our disappointment to realize that this is just the preface to eternity. Well, that just doesn't help because right now this is my existence and it's my entire existence. I did like the comment on humor. I have found that a good laugh helps break up my disappointment. Well, anyway, there is a reaction, not necessarily a question."

PamElla: If you would like a reaction, an honest reaction rather than a question or whatever, I guess I am willing to take that role tonight. I had a couple of thoughts, but my initial reaction was to Daniel when you said for us to take the longer view, I think that really is an impossible thing for us to do because it is asking us to do something which is beyond our experience! Although now I can look back to childhood easily and understand children I can remember being a child and thinking about being a grownup and being assured that that would never happen, because it was so long and far away. Even though I knew intellectually that someday I would be a grownup, an adult, my emotional reaction was, no, I will never be a grownup, never be an adult. And so that's how I feel when that is given as -- I was sort of in and out but I interpreted to be as solace to our disappointment to realize that this is just the preface to eternity. Well, that just doesn't help because right now this is my existence and it's my entire existence. I did like the comment on humor. I have found that a good laugh helps break up my disappointment. Well, anyway, there is a reaction, not necessarily a question.  

Daniel: "My dear it was not my intention to minimize the reality of disappointment by 'pie in the sky by and by' which seems to be how you may have thought or how you interpreted what I said, but rather to provide a broader framework for understanding that it doesn't all have to be done in this lifetime since you know that there is more. Much of the disappointment of Urantians today has to do with their lack of knowledge and faith regarding the whole perspective of eternal life so that they plan for the objectives of their life when they are young only to find them not being met and not being fulfilled. Many people succumb to massive disappointment that they cannot do all that they wish in this short lifetime, and knowing no other time become very sad, indeed. Rather I would intend to say that knowing there is time, much greater time than most people allow for or believe in frees you from the anxiety of that intense disappointment so that you can focus on your desires effectively and bring about those things which you earnestly and eagerly seek, of course in the overall perspective of seeking to do the Father's will. Has this clarified or helped or are you still in disagreement with what I have said?"

DANIEL: My dear it was not my intention to minimize the reality of disappointment by 'pie in the sky by and by' which seems to be how you may have thought or how you interpreted what I said, but rather to provide a broader framework for understanding that it doesn't all have to be done in this lifetime since you know that there is more. Much of the disappointment of Urantians today has to do with their lack of knowledge and faith regarding the whole perspective of eternal life so that they plan for the objectives of their life when they are young only to find them not being met and not being fulfilled. Many people succumb to massive disappointment that they cannot do all that they wish in this short lifetime, and knowing no other time become very sad, indeed. Rather I would intend to say that knowing there is time, much greater time than most people allow for or believe in frees you from the anxiety of that intense disappointment so that you can focus on your desires effectively and bring about those things which you earnestly and eagerly seek, of course in the overall perspective of seeking to do the Father's will. Has this clarified or helped or are you still in disagreement with what I have said?  

Nancy: "Both. That did clarify. But I am still in disagreement. I'm sure it is out of ignorance because there are things that I want to do that have to do with this planet now that I can't see how they could be answered in a different time and place or in a different form. So to some extent I can understand some of the experiences that we are looking for, the feelings of adventure and that sort of thing can be had in different forms. And the problem is I have an attachment to the form! I guess right now I am thinking about experiential training that I took where one of the processes dealt with letting go of the form and realizing the experience, the emotional experience that you wanted from the form, and to let go of the form in favor of the emotional experience. And I suppose that is what would be a good avenue for me to follow at this point of time in my life, to let go of the form in which my disappointments take place so that I might have the emotional experience. That is where my disagreement remains, and I am sure that could be out of ignorance. You guys are in a . ..I have no idea where you are. I have no idea what you experience. We are very limited or at least I am very limited by my experiences which are here and now. I really can't imagine what you know to be true by your experience. So it is not that I doubt...well I guess I do doubt what you say because I haven't experienced it and I guess I am very much like the Apostle Thomas."

PamElla: Both. That did clarify. But I am still in disagreement. I'm sure it is out of ignorance because there are things that I want to do that have to do with this planet now that I can't see how they could be answered in a different time and place or in a different form. So to some extent I can understand some of the experiences that we are looking for, the feelings of adventure and that sort of thing can be had in different forms. And the problem is I have an attachment to the form! I guess right now I am thinking about experiential training that I took where one of the processes dealt with letting go of the form and realizing the experience, the emotional experience that you wanted from the form, and to let go of the form in favor of the emotional experience. And I suppose that is what would be a good avenue for me to follow at this point of time in my life, to let go of the form in which my disappointments take place so that I might have the emotional experience. That is where my disagreement remains, and I am sure that could be out of ignorance. You guys are in a-- I have no idea where you are. I have no idea what you experience. We are very limited or at least I am very limited by my experiences which are here and now. I really can't imagine what you know to be true by your experience. So it is not that I doubt -- well I guess I do doubt what you say because I haven't experienced it and I guess I am very much like the Apostle Thomas.  

Tomas: "Understood. Your childlike enthusiasm to manifest and inculcate all of thinking, feeling humankind in your experience is fraught with idealism which we would never attempt to squelch and thus your own adventurous spirit puts you in direct attack of your own ambition. This is not without value for that which you project impacts that which is real outside you that you are unable to see, feel, sense or appreciate. What you do in no way undermines what you do accomplish in your enthusiasm and your hopes. That may be construed as you say, fame and fortune, and that is a poor phrase but the 'I AM' aspect of any Father fused being or ascendent being appreciates that recognition and acknowledgment of its contribution to the Supreme. The lack of feedback is a disappointment indeed. You must understand that you have not failed in your eagerness to give to the form for all that you put forth is scaffolding toward that end. Remind yourself when you are feeling limitations which curtail your greater satisfactions that you are doing more than you realize by simply being one of those who say, 'It is my will that His will be done'. Your alignment to those values is valuable beyond your comprehension. We sympathize with the many minor setbacks inherent in a material system and even beyond. Do not feel isolated for all sensitive, thinking, feeling, God knowing beings feel that same range of noble ideal and experience, the same helplessness at being unable to expand beyond the bounds of mortal flesh. Your soul is registered and your worth is assured. Be not disappointed with yourself and hold in check your disappointments for those experiences which leave you feeling defeated for those are temporary fleeting moments and not part of your permanent make up. I hope I have been able to boost your disappointed spirits somewhat, daughter."

TOMAS: Understood. Your childlike enthusiasm to manifest and inculcate all of thinking, feeling humankind in your experience is fraught with idealism which we would never attempt to squelch and thus your own adventurous spirit puts you in direct attack of your own ambition. This is not without value for that which you project impacts that which is real outside you that you are unable to see, feel, sense or appreciate. What you do in no way undermines what you do accomplish in your enthusiasm and your hopes. That may be construed as you say, fame and fortune, and that is a poor phrase but the 'I AM' aspect of any Father fused being or ascendant being appreciates that recognition and acknowledgment of its contribution to the Supreme. The lack of feedback is a disappointment indeed. You must understand that you have not failed in your eagerness to give to the form for all that you put forth is scaffolding toward that end. Remind yourself when you are feeling limitations which curtail your greater satisfactions that you are doing more than you realize by simply being one of those who say, 'It is my will that His will be done'. Your alignment to those values is valuable beyond your comprehension. We sympathize with the many minor setbacks inherent in a material system and even beyond. Do not feel isolated for all sensitive, thinking, feeling, God knowing beings feel that same range of noble ideal and experience, the same helplessness at being unable to expand beyond the bounds of mortal flesh. Your soul is registered and your worth is assured. Be not disappointed with yourself and hold in check your disappointments for those experiences which leave you feeling defeated for those are temporary fleeting moments and not part of your permanent make up. I hope I have been able to boost your disappointed spirits somewhat, daughter.  

Nancy: "Yes, Tomas, your words are more comforting and thank you. And just for clarification, I don't think for my personal clarification but for our transcript, when you say 'hold in check' am I correct in interpreting that you don't mean, 'do not feel the feelings', but rather, 'keep them in perspective'?"

PamElla: Yes, Tomas, your words are more comforting and thank you. And just for clarification, I don't think for my personal clarification but for our transcript, when you say 'hold in check' am I correct in interpreting that you don't mean, 'do not feel the feelings', but rather, 'keep them in perspective'?  

Tomas: "Correct."

TOMAS: Correct.  

Nancy: "Thank you, Tomas."

PamElla: Thank you, Tomas.  

Virginia: "Tomas, you made reference to some of the thoughts I had in that you did suggest that beyond this mortal existence and perhaps even on your plane that there is disappointment. I am assuming that this probably is true since you are not yet on Paradise; and I say that with 'tongue in cheek', of course. But what do you do when you are disappointed?"

Leetah: Tomas, you made reference to some of the thoughts I had in that you did suggest that beyond this mortal existence and perhaps even on your plane that there is disappointment. I am assuming that this probably is true since you are not yet on Paradise; and I say that with 'tongue in cheek', of course. But what do you do when you are disappointed?  

Tomas: "You are asking me a personal question?"

TOMAS: You are asking me a personal question?  

Virginia: "Definitely."

Leetah: Definitely.  

Tomas: "Then I will respond personally. What I do is I ask my peers to sit with me, to share with me that moment of frustration and growth. The strength and warmth of their support is invaluable and allows me the enforcement I require to again put my self in perspective. I have great need and great love and great admiration for my fellow teachers in the mission for we are uniquely suited to helping one another with our various disappointments. Often these disappointments which we experience, and I better not speak for Daniel or others but rather for myself, many of these disappointments which I experience are very much like yours in that I have such great faith in you and sometimes I am thwarted, let down, disappointed by my own expectations. It is a growth process, a refining process. That is my agenda, if you will."

TOMAS: Then I will respond personally. What I do is I ask my peers to sit with me, to share with me that moment of frustration and growth. The strength and warmth of their support is invaluable and allows me the enforcement I require to again put my self in perspective. I have great need and great love and great admiration for my fellow teachers in the mission for we are uniquely suited to helping one another with our various disappointments. Often these disappointments which we experience, and I better not speak for Daniel or others but rather for myself, many of these disappointments which I experience are very much like yours in that I have such great faith in you and sometimes I am thwarted, let down, disappointed by my own expectations. It is a growth process, a refining process. That is my agenda, if you will.  

Virginia: "Tomas, thank you very much. That really did help a great deal and really is an excellent model for us to try to follow. Whether you read my mind or not, I am not sure, but I was thinking in terms of the teachers dealing with me, (I'll be personal too) when I feel I fail myself and I would think that the teachers' expectations would be greater than mine. If so, then I would think that the teachers would experience disappointment in, not necessarily me, but in the situation, that I didn't rise above the circumstances of the moment. So I really appreciate you being personal. It really did answer a thought in my question that I didn't voice. Thank you very much."

Leetah: Tomas, thank you very much. That really did help a great deal and really is an excellent model for us to try to follow. Whether you read my mind or not, I am not sure, but I was thinking in terms of the teachers dealing with me, (I'll be personal too) when I feel I fail myself and I would think that the teachers' expectations would be greater than mine. If so, then I would think that the teachers would experience disappointment in, not necessarily me, but in the situation, that I didn't rise above the circumstances of the moment. So I really appreciate you being personal. It really did answer a thought in my question that I didn't voice. Thank you very much.  

Tomas: "Thank you, my sister."

TOMAS: Thank you, my sister.  

Daniel: "Virginia we are somewhat more mature than you mortals and we have learned to a greater extent that there are limits to our ability to influence other people so that when our students fail as you describe it we see it differently. We see this as a learning process. We see this as perfectly understandable, even as toddlers fall down when they are first attempting to walk, even as children fall out of trees and break their bones, even as adults make minor to horrendous mistakes in magnitude. Failure is only appropriately described, if at all, in the unwillingness to learn from experience, to change procedure, to change expectation and etc. When you stumble, get back up. When you are unhappy with yourself, let go of that judgement. Do you see?"

DANIEL: Leetah we are somewhat more mature than you mortals and we have learned to a greater extent that there are limits to our ability to influence other people so that when our students fail as you describe it we see it differently. We see this as a learning process. We see this as perfectly understandable, even as toddlers fall down when they are first attempting to walk, even as children fall out of trees and break their bones, even as adults make minor to horrendous mistakes in magnitude. Failure is only appropriately described, if at all, in the unwillingness to learn from experience, to change procedure, to change expectation and etc. When you stumble, get back up. When you are unhappy with yourself, let go of that judgement. Do you see?  

Virginia: "Yes. But I think if we are going to hang on to the ideal then I would say when you fall, when you are disappointed in yourself then I would say to myself, change, rather than let go of the judgment. If I don't change...there has to be judgment and evaluation before change can occur. And the only person I can really change is me. So I think there has to be a point of evaluation!"

Leetah: Yes. But I think if we are going to hang on to the ideal then I would say when you fall, when you are disappointed in yourself then I would say to myself, change, rather than let go of the judgement. If I don't change...there has to be judgement and evaluation before change can occur. And the only person I can really change is me. So I think there has to be a point of evaluation!  

Daniel: "Agreed. By the phrase 'let go of judgment' I did not refer to assessment of the situation. I referred to that feeling of guilt, of self disappointment, and etc. Certainly to understand a situation is prerequisite to improving one's reaction in the future."

DANIEL: Agreed. By the phrase 'let go of judgement' I did not refer to assessment of the situation. I referred to that feeling of guilt, of self disappointment, and etc. Certainly to understand a situation is prerequisite to improving one's reaction in the future.  

Virginia: "Thank you Daniel."

Leetah: Thank you, Daniel.  

Tomas: "It has been said that one of our purposes is to make you think. And those who deign to think and then to blunder into awareness are our chief delight. You are not a disappointment for you have begun your active co-creative process. You accept your self conscious association with divinity. There is far more joy and appreciation for the errors of those who attempt to learn and delve into unknown waters of the mind, heart, and soul than you know. It is an unfortunate side effect of the wondrous supernal adventure that as your perspectives broaden so, too, do the occasions for disappointment. But as you step up in your growth the disappointments are newer and the old disappointments fall away. Like any aspect of ascension the sting is lessened and when it is poignant it is briefer thus all things continue to ascend and edify and delight. Therefor we encourage you to not allow the threat of disappointment to curtail your enthusiasm in embracing life in all its manifold vicissitudes, for where else can you find those opportunities for decision making which bring you greater reality?"

TOMAS: It has been said that one of our purposes is to make you think. And those who deign to think and then to blunder into awareness are our chief delight. You are not a disappointment for you have begun your active co-creative process. You accept your self conscious association with divinity. There is far more joy and appreciation for the errors of those who attempt to learn and delve into unknown waters of the mind, heart, and soul than you know. It is an unfortunate side effect of the wondrous supernal adventure that as your perspectives broaden so, too, do the occasions for disappointment. But as you step up in your growth the disappointments are newer and the old disappointments fall away. Like any aspect of ascension the sting is lessened and when it is poignant it is briefer thus all things continue to ascend and edify and delight. Therefore we encourage you to not allow the threat of disappointment to curtail your enthusiasm in embracing life in all its manifold vicissitudes, for where else can you find those opportunities for decision making which bring you greater reality?  

Virginia: "Thank you Tomas"

Leetah: Thank you, Tomas  

 

 

===Closing===

===Closing===

And now because our time is long and these vessels are somewhat weary I will draw this meeting to a close. My assignment to you today is to think about those aspects of your life which you regard as disappointing and to bring them into the presence of the First Source and Center and Christ Michael. Talk with your Indwelling Spirit. Talk with our Father/Brother. Seek guidance. And may love and joy and peace be your portion today and for the rest of the week. Goodnight."

And now because our time is long and these vessels are somewhat weary I will draw this meeting to a close. My assignment to you today is to think about those aspects of your life which you regard as disappointing and to bring them into the presence of the First Source and Center and Christ Michael. Talk with your Indwelling Spirit. Talk with our Father/Brother. Seek guidance. And may love and joy and peace be your portion today and for the rest of the week. Goodnight."