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==PAPER 161: FURTHER DISCUSSIONS WITH RODAN==

==PAPER 161: FURTHER DISCUSSIONS WITH RODAN==

161:0.1 On Sunday, September 25, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/29_AD A.D. 29], [[the apostles]] and the [[evangelists]] assembled at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdala Magadan]. After a long [[conference]] that evening with his [[associates]], [[Jesus]] surprised all by announcing that early the next day he and the [[twelve apostles]] would start for [[Jerusalem]] to attend the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_Tabernacles feast of tabernacles]. He directed that the [[evangelists]] [[visit]] the [[believers]] in [[Galilee]], and that the [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_150#150:1._THE_WOMEN.27S_EVANGELISTIC_CORPS women's corps] return for a while to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethsaida Bethsaida].

161:0.1 On Sunday, September 25, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/29_AD A.D. 29], [[the apostles]] and the [[evangelists]] assembled at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdala Magadan]. After a long [[conference]] that evening with his [[associates]], [[Jesus]] surprised all by announcing that early the next day he and the [[twelve apostles]] would start for [[Jerusalem]] to attend the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feast_of_Tabernacles feast of tabernacles]. He directed that the [[evangelists]] [[visit]] the [[believers]] in [[Galilee]], and that the [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_150#150:1._THE_WOMEN.27S_EVANGELISTIC_CORPS women's corps] return for a while to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethsaida Bethsaida].

161:0.2 When the hour came to leave for [[Jerusalem]], [[Nathaniel]] and [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] were still in the midst of their [[discussions]] with Rodan of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria Alexandria][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_school], and they secured [[the Master]]'s [[permission]] to remain at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdala Magadan] for a few days. And so, while [[Jesus]] and the [[ten]] were on their way to [[Jerusalem]], [[Nathaniel]] and [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] were [[engaged]] in [[earnest]] [[debate]] with Rodan. The week prior, in which Rodan had expounded his [[philosophy]], [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] and [[Nathaniel]] had alternated in presenting the [[gospel]] of [[the kingdom]] to the [[Greek]] philosopher. Rodan [[discovered]] that he had been well instructed in [[Jesus]]' teachings by one of the former [[apostles]] of [[John the Baptist]] who had been his [[teacher]] at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria Alexandria].

161:0.2 When the hour came to leave for [[Jerusalem]], [[Nathaniel]] and [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] were still in the midst of their [[discussions]] with Rodan of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria Alexandria][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandrian_school], and they secured [[the Master]]'s [[permission]] to remain at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdala Magadan] for a few days. And so, while [[Jesus]] and the [[ten]] were on their way to [[Jerusalem]], [[Nathaniel]] and [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] were [[engaged]] in [[earnest]] [[debate]] with Rodan. The week prior, in which Rodan had expounded his [[philosophy]], [[Thomas, the Apostle|Thomas]] and [[Nathaniel]] had alternated in presenting the [[gospel]] of [[the kingdom]] to the [[Greek]] philosopher. Rodan [[discovered]] that he had been well instructed in [[Jesus]]' teachings by one of the former [[apostles]] of [[John the Baptist]] who had been his [[teacher]] at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria Alexandria].

==161:1. THE PERSONALITY OF GOD==

==161:1. THE PERSONALITY OF GOD==

161:1.1 There was one matter on which Rodan and the two [[apostles]] did not see alike, and that was the [[personality]] of [[God]][http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_5#5:6._THE_GOD_OF_PERSONALITY][http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_1#1:5._PERSONALITY_OF_THE_UNIVERSAL_FATHER]. Rodan readily [[accepted]] all that was presented to him regarding the [[attributes]] of [[God]], but he contended that [[the Father]] in heaven is not, cannot be, a [[person]] as man conceives [[personality]]. While [[the apostles]] found themselves in [[difficulty]] trying to [[prove]] that [[God]] is a [[person]], Rodan found it still more [[difficult]] to prove he is not a person.

161:1.1 There was one matter on which Rodan and the two [[apostles]] did not see alike, and that was the [[personality]] of [[God]][https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_5#5:6._THE_GOD_OF_PERSONALITY][https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_1#1:5._PERSONALITY_OF_THE_UNIVERSAL_FATHER]. Rodan readily [[accepted]] all that was presented to him regarding the [[attributes]] of [[God]], but he contended that [[the Father]] in heaven is not, cannot be, a [[person]] as man conceives [[personality]]. While [[the apostles]] found themselves in [[difficulty]] trying to [[prove]] that [[God]] is a [[person]], Rodan found it still more [[difficult]] to prove he is not a person.

161:1.2 Rodan contended that the [[fact]] of [[personality]] consists in the coexistent [[fact]] of full and [[mutual]] [[communication]] between [[beings]] of [[equality]], beings who are capable of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]. Said Rodan: " In order to be a [[person]], [[God]] must have [[symbols]] of [[spirit]] [[communication]] which would enable him to become fully [[understood]] by those who make [[contact]] with him. But since [[God]] is [[infinite]] and [[eternal]], the [[Creator]] of all other [[beings]], it follows that, as regards beings of [[equality]], [[God]] is [[alone]] in the [[universe]]. There are none [[equal]] to him; there are none with whom he can [[communicate]] as an [[equal]]. [[God]] indeed may be the [[source]] of all [[personality]], but as such he is [[transcendent]] to [[personality]], even as the [[Creator]] is above and beyond the [[creature]]. "

161:1.2 Rodan contended that the [[fact]] of [[personality]] consists in the coexistent [[fact]] of full and [[mutual]] [[communication]] between [[beings]] of [[equality]], beings who are capable of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]. Said Rodan: " In order to be a [[person]], [[God]] must have [[symbols]] of [[spirit]] [[communication]] which would enable him to become fully [[understood]] by those who make [[contact]] with him. But since [[God]] is [[infinite]] and [[eternal]], the [[Creator]] of all other [[beings]], it follows that, as regards beings of [[equality]], [[God]] is [[alone]] in the [[universe]]. There are none [[equal]] to him; there are none with whom he can [[communicate]] as an [[equal]]. [[God]] indeed may be the [[source]] of all [[personality]], but as such he is [[transcendent]] to [[personality]], even as the [[Creator]] is above and beyond the [[creature]]. "

*3. 161:1.8 That [[Jesus]] was on terms of [[mutual]] [[association]] and [[perfect]] [[communication]] with man; that [[Jesus]] was the [[Son of God]]. That the [[relation]] of Son and Father presupposes [[equality]] of [[communication]] and [[mutuality]] of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]; that [[Jesus]] and [[the Father]] were one. That [[Jesus]] [[maintained]] at one and the [[same time]] [[understanding]] [[communication]] with both God and man, and that, since both [[God]] and man [[comprehended]] the [[meaning]] of the [[symbols]] of [[Jesus]]' communication, both God and man [[possessed]] the [[attributes]] of [[personality]] in so far as the requirements of the [[ability]] of intercommunication were concerned. That the [[personality]] of [[Jesus]] [[demonstrated]] the personality of [[God]], while it proved conclusively the [[presence]] of [[God]] in man. That [[two]] [[things]] which are related to the same thing are related to each other.

*3. 161:1.8 That [[Jesus]] was on terms of [[mutual]] [[association]] and [[perfect]] [[communication]] with man; that [[Jesus]] was the [[Son of God]]. That the [[relation]] of Son and Father presupposes [[equality]] of [[communication]] and [[mutuality]] of [[sympathetic]] [[understanding]]; that [[Jesus]] and [[the Father]] were one. That [[Jesus]] [[maintained]] at one and the [[same time]] [[understanding]] [[communication]] with both God and man, and that, since both [[God]] and man [[comprehended]] the [[meaning]] of the [[symbols]] of [[Jesus]]' communication, both God and man [[possessed]] the [[attributes]] of [[personality]] in so far as the requirements of the [[ability]] of intercommunication were concerned. That the [[personality]] of [[Jesus]] [[demonstrated]] the personality of [[God]], while it proved conclusively the [[presence]] of [[God]] in man. That [[two]] [[things]] which are related to the same thing are related to each other.

*4. 161:1.9 That [[personality]] [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of [[human]] [[reality]] and [[divine]] [[values]]; that [[God]] also [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of divine [[reality]] and [[infinite]] [[values]]; therefore, that [[God]] must be a divine and [[infinite]] [[personality]], a personality in [[reality]] although infinitely and eternally [[transcending]] man's [[concept]] and definition of personality, but nevertheless always and [[universally]] a [[personality]].

*4. 161:1.9 That [[personality]] [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of [[human]] [[reality]] and [[divine]] [[values]]; that [[God]] also [[represents]] man's highest [[concept]] of divine [[reality]] and [[infinite]] [[values]]; therefore, that [[God]] must be a divine and [[infinite]] [[personality]], a personality in [[reality]] although infinitely and eternally [[transcending]] man's [[concept]] and definition of personality, but nevertheless always and [[universally]] a [[personality]].

*5. 161:1.10 That [[God]] must be a [[personality]] since he is the [[Creator]] of all [[personality]] and the [[destiny]] of all [[personality]]. Rodan had been tremendously [[influenced]] by the teaching of [[Jesus]], " Be you therefore [[perfect]], even as y[[our Father]] in heaven is perfect. "[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_matthew#Chapter_5]

*5. 161:1.10 That [[God]] must be a [[personality]] since he is the [[Creator]] of all [[personality]] and the [[destiny]] of all [[personality]]. Rodan had been tremendously [[influenced]] by the teaching of [[Jesus]], " Be you therefore [[perfect]], even as y[[our Father]] in heaven is perfect. "[https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_matthew#Chapter_5]

161:1.11 When Rodan heard these [[arguments]], he said: " I am convinced. I will [[confess]] [[God]] as a [[person]] if you will [[permit]] me to qualify my confession of such a [[belief]] by attaching to the [[meaning]] of personality a [[group]] of extended [[values]], such as [[superhuman]], [[transcendent]], [[supreme]], [[infinite]], [[eternal]], final, and [[universal]]. I am now convinced that, while [[God]] must be infinitely more than a [[personality]], he cannot be anything less. I am [[satisfied]] to end the [[argument]] and to [[accept]] [[Jesus]] as the [[personal]] [[revelation]] of [[the Father]] and the [[satisfaction]] of all unsatisfied [[factors]] in [[logic]], [[reason]], and [[philosophy]]. "

161:1.11 When Rodan heard these [[arguments]], he said: " I am convinced. I will [[confess]] [[God]] as a [[person]] if you will [[permit]] me to qualify my confession of such a [[belief]] by attaching to the [[meaning]] of personality a [[group]] of extended [[values]], such as [[superhuman]], [[transcendent]], [[supreme]], [[infinite]], [[eternal]], final, and [[universal]]. I am now convinced that, while [[God]] must be infinitely more than a [[personality]], he cannot be anything less. I am [[satisfied]] to end the [[argument]] and to [[accept]] [[Jesus]] as the [[personal]] [[revelation]] of [[the Father]] and the [[satisfaction]] of all unsatisfied [[factors]] in [[logic]], [[reason]], and [[philosophy]]. "

*6. 161:2.7 We are constantly impressed by the [[phenomenon]] of his [[superhuman]] [[knowledge]]. Hardly does a day pass but something transpires to disclose that [[the Master]] knows what is going on away from his [[immediate]] [[presence]]. He also seems to know about the [[thoughts]] of his [[associates]]. He undoubtedly has [[communion]] with [[celestial]] [[personalities]]; he unquestionably lives on a [[spiritual]] [[plane]] far above the rest of us. [[Everything]] seems to be open to his [[unique]] [[understanding]]. He asks us questions to draw us out, not to gain [[information]].

*6. 161:2.7 We are constantly impressed by the [[phenomenon]] of his [[superhuman]] [[knowledge]]. Hardly does a day pass but something transpires to disclose that [[the Master]] knows what is going on away from his [[immediate]] [[presence]]. He also seems to know about the [[thoughts]] of his [[associates]]. He undoubtedly has [[communion]] with [[celestial]] [[personalities]]; he unquestionably lives on a [[spiritual]] [[plane]] far above the rest of us. [[Everything]] seems to be open to his [[unique]] [[understanding]]. He asks us questions to draw us out, not to gain [[information]].

*7. 161:2.8 Recently [[the Master]] does not [[hesitate]] to assert his [[superhuman]]ity. From the day of our [[ordination]] as [[apostles]] right on down to recent times, he has never denied that he came from [[the Father]] above. He speaks with the [[authority]] of a [[divine]] [[teacher]]. [[The Master]] does not [[hesitate]] to refute the religious [[teachings]] of today and to [[declare]] the new [[gospel]] with [[positive]] [[authority]]. He is [[assertive]], [[positive]], and [[authoritative]]. Even [[John the Baptist]], when he heard [[Jesus]] speak, [[declared]] that he was the [[Son of God]]. He seems to be so sufficient within himself. He craves not the [[support]] of the multitude; he is indifferent to the [[opinions]] of men. He is [[brave]] and yet so free from [[pride]].

*7. 161:2.8 Recently [[the Master]] does not [[hesitate]] to assert his [[superhuman]]ity. From the day of our [[ordination]] as [[apostles]] right on down to recent times, he has never denied that he came from [[the Father]] above. He speaks with the [[authority]] of a [[divine]] [[teacher]]. [[The Master]] does not [[hesitate]] to refute the religious [[teachings]] of today and to [[declare]] the new [[gospel]] with [[positive]] [[authority]]. He is [[assertive]], [[positive]], and [[authoritative]]. Even [[John the Baptist]], when he heard [[Jesus]] speak, [[declared]] that he was the [[Son of God]]. He seems to be so sufficient within himself. He craves not the [[support]] of the multitude; he is indifferent to the [[opinions]] of men. He is [[brave]] and yet so free from [[pride]].

*8. 161:2.9 He constantly talks about [[God]] as an ever-present [[associate]] in all that he does. He goes about doing [[good]], for [[God]] seems to be in him. He makes the most astounding [[assertions]] about himself and his [[mission]] on [[earth]], statements which would be [[absurd]] if he were not [[divine]]. He once [[declared]], " Before Abraham was, I am. "[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_john#Chapter_8] He has definitely claimed [[divinity]]; he professes to be in [[partnership]] with [[God]]. He well-nigh [[exhausts]] the [[possibilities]] of [[language]] in the [[reiteration]] of his claims of [[intimate]] [[association]] with the [[Universal Father|heavenly Father]]. He even [[dares]] to assert that he and [[the Father]] are one.[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_john#Chapter_10] He says that any one who has seen him has seen [[the Father]].[http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_john#Chapter_14] And he says and does all these tremendous [[things]] with such childlike [[natural]]ness. He alludes to his [[association]] with [[the Father]] in the same [[manner]] that he refers to his [[association]] with us. He seems to be so sure about [[God]] and speaks of these [[relations]] in such a matter-of-fact way.

*8. 161:2.9 He constantly talks about [[God]] as an ever-present [[associate]] in all that he does. He goes about doing [[good]], for [[God]] seems to be in him. He makes the most astounding [[assertions]] about himself and his [[mission]] on [[earth]], statements which would be [[absurd]] if he were not [[divine]]. He once [[declared]], " Before Abraham was, I am. "[https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_john#Chapter_8] He has definitely claimed [[divinity]]; he professes to be in [[partnership]] with [[God]]. He well-nigh [[exhausts]] the [[possibilities]] of [[language]] in the [[reiteration]] of his claims of [[intimate]] [[association]] with the [[Universal Father|heavenly Father]]. He even [[dares]] to assert that he and [[the Father]] are one.[https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_john#Chapter_10] He says that any one who has seen him has seen [[the Father]].[https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gospel_of_john#Chapter_14] And he says and does all these tremendous [[things]] with such childlike [[natural]]ness. He alludes to his [[association]] with [[the Father]] in the same [[manner]] that he refers to his [[association]] with us. He seems to be so sure about [[God]] and speaks of these [[relations]] in such a matter-of-fact way.

*9. 161:2.10 In his [[prayer]] life he appears to [[communicate]] directly with [[the Father|his Father]]. We have heard few of his [[prayers]], but these few would indicate that he talks with [[God]], as it were, face to face. He seems to know the [[future]] as well as the [[past]]. He simply could not be all of this and do all of these extraordinary [[things]] unless he were something more than [[human]]. We know he is human, we are sure of that, but we are almost [[equally]] sure that he is also [[divine]]. We [[believe]] that he is divine. We are convinced that he is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Man Son of Man] and the [[Son of God]].

*9. 161:2.10 In his [[prayer]] life he appears to [[communicate]] directly with [[the Father|his Father]]. We have heard few of his [[prayers]], but these few would indicate that he talks with [[God]], as it were, face to face. He seems to know the [[future]] as well as the [[past]]. He simply could not be all of this and do all of these extraordinary [[things]] unless he were something more than [[human]]. We know he is human, we are sure of that, but we are almost [[equally]] sure that he is also [[divine]]. We [[believe]] that he is divine. We are convinced that he is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Man Son of Man] and the [[Son of God]].

==161:3. JESUS' HUMAN AND DIVINE MINDS==

==161:3. JESUS' HUMAN AND DIVINE MINDS==

161:3.1 [[Consciousness]] of [[divinity]] was a [[gradual]] [[growth]] in the [[mind]] of [[Jesus]] up to the occasion of [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_136#136:2._THE_BAPTISM_OF_JESUS his baptism]. After he became fully [[self-conscious]] of his [[divine]] [[nature]], prehuman [[existence]], and [[universe]] [[prerogatives]], he seems to have possessed the [[power]] of variously limiting his [[human]] [[consciousness]] of his [[divinity]]. It [[appears]] to us that from his [[baptism]] until the [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_187 crucifixion] it was entirely [[option]]al with [[Jesus]] whether to depend only on the [[human]] [[mind]] or to utilize the [[knowledge]] of both the human and the [[divine]] minds. At times he [[appeared]] to avail himself of only that [[information]] which was resident in the human [[intellect]]. On other occasions he appeared to [[act]] with such fullness of [[knowledge]] and [[wisdom]] as could be afforded only by the utilization of the [[superhuman]] content of his [[divine]] [[consciousness]].

161:3.1 [[Consciousness]] of [[divinity]] was a [[gradual]] [[growth]] in the [[mind]] of [[Jesus]] up to the occasion of [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_136#136:2._THE_BAPTISM_OF_JESUS his baptism]. After he became fully [[self-conscious]] of his [[divine]] [[nature]], prehuman [[existence]], and [[universe]] [[prerogatives]], he seems to have possessed the [[power]] of variously limiting his [[human]] [[consciousness]] of his [[divinity]]. It [[appears]] to us that from his [[baptism]] until the [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Paper_187 crucifixion] it was entirely [[option]]al with [[Jesus]] whether to depend only on the [[human]] [[mind]] or to utilize the [[knowledge]] of both the human and the [[divine]] minds. At times he [[appeared]] to avail himself of only that [[information]] which was resident in the human [[intellect]]. On other occasions he appeared to [[act]] with such fullness of [[knowledge]] and [[wisdom]] as could be afforded only by the utilization of the [[superhuman]] content of his [[divine]] [[consciousness]].

161:3.2 We can [[understand]] his [[unique]] [[performances]] only by [[accepting]] the [[theory]] that he could, at will, [[self]]-[[limit]] his [[divinity]] [[consciousness]]. We are fully cognizant that he frequently withheld from his [[associates]] his [[foreknowledge]] of [[events]], and that he was [[aware]] of the [[nature]] of their [[thinking]] and [[planning]]. We [[understand]] that he did not wish his followers to know too fully that he was able to [[discern]] their [[thoughts]] and to penetrate their [[plans]]. He did not [[desire]] too far to [[transcend]] the [[concept]] of the [[human]] as it was held in the [[minds]] of his [[apostles]] and [[disciples]].

161:3.2 We can [[understand]] his [[unique]] [[performances]] only by [[accepting]] the [[theory]] that he could, at will, [[self]]-[[limit]] his [[divinity]] [[consciousness]]. We are fully cognizant that he frequently withheld from his [[associates]] his [[foreknowledge]] of [[events]], and that he was [[aware]] of the [[nature]] of their [[thinking]] and [[planning]]. We [[understand]] that he did not wish his followers to know too fully that he was able to [[discern]] their [[thoughts]] and to penetrate their [[plans]]. He did not [[desire]] too far to [[transcend]] the [[concept]] of the [[human]] as it was held in the [[minds]] of his [[apostles]] and [[disciples]].

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[[Category: PART IV: The Life and Teachings of Jesus]]

[[Category: PART IV: The Life and Teachings of Jesus]]