Changes

===TR: [[Rebecca]]===

===TR: [[Rebecca]]===

==Session==

==Session==

===OUT-OF-BODY EXPERIENCES===

===='''''[[Out of Body Experience]]'''''====

S: Can you explain to me what happens when you have an out-of-body experience?

R: Could you [[describe]] this [[experience]]?

R: Could you describe this experience?

S: There was an experience when I was going through lots of [[pain]]. I saw myself lying down on the couch and the [[pain]] was gone, and there was so much [[light]], and it was just so [[beautiful]]. I remember coming back to all that [[pain]]. What makes people, when that happens, when there's all that [[light]] and just [[beauty]], what makes them turn back around?

S: There was an experience when I was going through lots of pain. I saw myself lying down on the couch and the pain was gone, and there was so much light, and it was just so beautiful. I remember coming back to all that pain. What makes people, when that happens, when there's all that light and just beauty, what makes them turn back around?

R: Part of the answer to your question is something that I am not [[permitted]] to [[discuss]], but I can tell you that you have [[chemical]] [[potentials]] in your [[brain]] that give you great [[power]] regarding the [[maintenance]] of your material life or its cessation. It is indeed true that you can will yourself to die or to live, and that you can will yourself to [[health]] or [[illness]]. It is also true that you can [[achieve]] states of extremely close contact with the [[Thought Adjuster]] and during such states may be afforded a [[glimpse]] of yourself as you appear outside of your material [[body]]. This may seem like a [[mystic]] explanation, but I urge you to refrain from [[consciously]] repeating such an [[experience]] as it can be quite [[hazardous]]. Something does indeed happen at a [[spiritual]] level. More than that I cannot say. This [[question]] has been asked frequently during the lesson periods of this [[Teaching Mission]], and it is appropriate that it would be asked during a lesson about [[perfection]] and imperfection. Are there other comments or [[questions]]?

S: Well, with regard to that, would it be going too far then to ask whether the being who at that [[point]] [[decides]] to turn around and come back had a sense of not having finished, of not having completed this part of the [[journey]], and a willingness to come back and complete it?

 

S: Well, with regard to that, would it be going too far then to ask whether the being who at that point decides to turn around and come back had a sense of not having finished, of not having completed this part of the journey, and a willingness to come back and complete it?

R: Yes.

R: Yes.

S: And were the being to say "I don't want to finish this", would that be a spiritual misstep, an error.

S: And were the being to say "I don't want to finish this", would that be a spiritual misstep, an [[error]].

R: Not necessarily. It would depend on motives. There would be an adjudication of such a decision, however. Generally, there is not the assignment of error to such a decision because the circumstances warrant the decision being taken.

R: Not necessarily. It would depend on [[motives]]. There would be an [[adjudication]] of such a [[decision]], however. Generally, there is not the [[assignment]] of error to such a decision because the [[circumstances]] warrant the decision being taken.

S: Because pain is so destructive and so exhausting, sometimes people reach a point where they are unwilling to tolerate it any more. There is more and more of this on this planet at this time - of peoples opting to terminate this life rather than endure. I was concerned. To me that is not spiritually wrong, but I wondered whether in the plan it was less than the ideal solution.

S: Because [[pain]] is so destructive and so [[exhausting]], sometimes people reach a [[point]] where they are unwilling to tolerate it any more. There is more and more of this on [[this planet]] at this time - of peoples opting to terminate this life rather than [[endure]]. I was concerned. To me that is not spiritually wrong, but I [[wondered]] whether in the plan it was less than the [[ideal]] solution.

R: It all depends on circumstances. If you make an irrevocable decision to depart, the Thought Adjuster will leave the body. If however, you do not make such a decision, the Thought Adjuster will stand firm and pull you back like a rubber band.

R: It all depends on [[circumstances]]. If you make an irrevocable [[decision]] to depart, the [[Thought Adjuster]] will leave the body. If however, you do not make such a [[decision]], the Thought Adjuster will stand firm and pull you back like a rubber band.

S: Pretty great people, beings, Thought Adjusters, aren't they?

S: Pretty great people, [[beings]], [[Thought Adjusters]], aren't they?

R: They perfectly execute their role. There have been no defaults to date. (12/04/93) *********************

R: They perfectly [[execute]] their role. There have been no [[defaults]] to date. (12/04/93)  

Q: Is your continued ability to experience pain an aid to your growth and development at your stage in the mansion worlds and in your work here on the planet with us mortals?

Q: Rayson, are we talking about [[physical]] [[pain]] or [[emotional]] pain, and does everybody experience that when they leave [[this planet]]?

A: I do not care for pain anymore than you do, and yet Father does not waste. He does not create anything without purpose. I believe that the pain that I still experience is partly a reminder that I am still part animal in my nature and that it serves as a continued reminder to me that I have very, very far to go. It is said that once the journey to Paradise has been completed, there is no more pain as we know it. Whether being in the presence of God obliterates the pain or you have already achieved a condition in which you do not any longer experience pain prior to your audience with Father is not clear to me, but I can tell you that I believe I sense less pain now than when I was a material being on my planet of origin.

R: Do you mean physical [[death]]? (Yes.) For some, death is not [[painful]] at all. Do you wish to rephrase the question, or would you like me to elaborate on death itself?

Q: Rayson, are we talking about physical pain or emotional pain, and does everybody experience that when they leave this planet?

S2: I believe the question was whether or not you felt pain after you left this life, at the next [[stage]] of [[existence]]. Is that correct?

R: Do you mean physical death? (Yes.) For some, death is not painful at all. Do you wish to rephrase the question, or would you like me to elaborate on death itself?

Q: Yes. And is it physical or [[emotional]] pain we're talking about?

S2: I believe the question was whether or not you felt pain after you left this life, at the next stage of existence. Is that correct?

A: Most of the [[pain]] that you experience in your present state is a [[composite]] of [[physical]] discomfort which is contributed to by [[emotional]] anguish based on [[frustration]] of [[animal]] drives and spirit longing. As you grow in your [[spiritual development]], the former will decrease in their contribution and the latter will increase [[proportionately]]. However, spirit longing is a different sort of [[feeling]] than physical [[pain]] as you know it. Have you not ever had the sense of your own incompleteness? (

S: Many times.) That is something like [[spiritual]] [[pain]] or longing. It can be very uncomfortable, can it not? (Yes.) And yet you would not [[characterize]] it as the same thing as, for example, suffering a cut or a broken bone, would you?

 

 

S: Many times.) That is something like spiritual pain or longing. It can be very uncomfortable, can it not? (Yes.) And yet you would not characterize it as the same thing as, for example, suffering a cut or a broken bone, would you?

S: True. Right.

S: True. Right.

R: What do you think is the difference?

R: What do you think is the [[difference]]?

S: I'm not sure how to answer that. It seems to me one's more emotional, and the other's more physical.

S: I'm not sure how to answer that. It seems to me one's more [[emotional]], and the other's more [[physical]].

R: You think the spiritual pain is physical?

R: You think the spiritual pain is physical?

R: Does anyone else have a comment?

R: Does anyone else have a comment?

S2: Well, I would think that the physical pain is carried to the brain through the nervous system, and the emotional pain is not located in any particular place, but is carried to the conscience by the psyche perhaps, something of that nature.

S2: Well, I would think that the [[physical]] pain is carried to the [[brain]] through the [[nervous system]], and the emotional pain is not located in any particular place, but is carried to the [[conscience]] by the [[psyche]] perhaps, something of that nature.

R: And the spiritual?

R: And the [[spiritual]]?

S2: The Bible talks about spiritual groanings and longings which I think that we all have. We do not identify that as pain. Perhaps it is pain, but I have not thought of it as being pain. It's simply an unfulfilled, deep longing, a hunger for -

S2: The [[Bible]] talks about spiritual groanings and longings which I think that we all have. We do not identify that as [[pain]]. Perhaps it is pain, but I have not [[thought]] of it as being pain. It's simply an unfulfilled, deep longing, a [[hunger]] for -

Q: Are both physical and emotional pain rooted with spiritual undertones? I remember reading of Jesus and His comments to afflicted people experiencing pain, both emotional and physical. Many times their faith would be the healing factor of overcoming both emotional and physical pains and longings.

Q: Are both [[physical]] and [[emotional]] pain [[rooted]] with spiritual undertones? I remember [[reading]] of [[Jesus]] and His comments to afflicted people experiencing pain, both emotional and physical. Many times their [[faith]] would be the [[healing]] [[factor]] of overcoming both emotional and physical pains and longings.

A: Your faith will help not only in subduing the discomfort you experience from the physical and the mental but will also help greatly to allay the discomfort of spiritual longings. When I speak of pain myself, I speak more of my own sense of imperfection, my imperfection, for I am in company with perfect creatures who do not know this feeling that we speak of and, like yourselves, I compare myself to them, as you would compare to another.

A: Your [[faith]] will help not only in subduing the discomfort you [[experience]] from the [[physical]] and the mental but will also help greatly to allay the discomfort of [[spiritual]] longings. When I speak of pain myself, I speak more of my own sense of [[imperfection]], my imperfection, for I am in company with [[perfect]] creatures who do not know this [[feeling]] that we speak of and, like yourselves, I [[compare]] myself to them, as you would compare to another.

Q: Is there an element of sadness then that is part of the sense of pain, a sadness at one's own imperfection?

Q: Is there an element of sadness then that is part of the sense of [[pain]], a sadness at one's own [[imperfection]]?

A: Yes, you could say that. And yet I have had enough mota lessons to know logically that it is a wonderful endowment to be imperfect.

A: Yes, you could say that. And yet I have had enough [[mota]] lessons to know [[logically]] that it is a [[wonderful]] [[endowment]] to be [[imperfect]].

Q: Rayson, is pain a positive thing in the sense that it contributes to the striving for perfection?

Q: Rayson, is [[pain]] a [[positive]] thing in the sense that it contributes to the striving for [[perfection]]?

A: Some say that is the reason for its existence. Animals certainly experience pain and you know that we are evolved from animal. I can honestly say that I do not fully understand all of God's reasoning for endowing us with pain, but He is perfect, and His plan is perfect. So it is placed with a perfect motive, and what you suggest may very well be part of that motive.

A: Some say that is the reason for its [[existence]]. [[Animals]] certainly [[experience]] pain and you know that we are evolved from animal. I can [[honestly]] say that I do not fully [[understand]] all of God's reasoning for [[endowing]] us with pain, but He is [[perfect]], and His plan is perfect. So it is placed with a perfect [[motive]], and what you suggest may very well be part of that [[motive]].

Q: I have been under the impression that physical pain was the device by which we're notified that something is physically wrong so we can correct it. Is spiritual pain the device by which we're notified of things that are spiritually wrong, so we can correct them?

Q: I have been under the [[impression]] that [[physical]] pain was the device by which we're notified that something is physically wrong so we can correct it. Is spiritual pain the device by which we're notified of things that are spiritually wrong, so we can correct them?

A: Yes, but it is more than that, for you need not have acted in error in order to experience spiritual pain. Your action at any given time may be in accord with God's wishes, and yet you may still have pain.

A: Yes, but it is more than that, for you need not have [[acted]] in [[error]] in order to [[experience]] [[spiritual]] [[pain]]. Your action at any given time may be in [[accord]] with God's wishes, and yet you may still have [[pain]].

Q: Is an example of that the feeling that Jesus had before the crisis at Capernaum when He isolated Himself from His apostles and was apparently in great agony before He voluntarily submitted Himself to the embarrassment, I should say, of having His own people reject Him?

Q: Is an example of that the [[feeling]] that [[Jesus]] had before the [[crisis at Capernaum]] when He [[isolated]] Himself from His [[apostles]] and was apparently in great [[agony]] before He voluntarily submitted Himself to the [[embarrassment]], I should say, of having His own people [[reject]] Him?

A: He was also torn by a great turmoil related to the trial of Lucifer, for His life on Urantia as you know was a key argument presented to the Ancients of Days against the rebuttals of Lucifer in his own defense. So Jesus, the man, at the time - He was fully aware of His complete identity and purpose - experienced far, far more pain than any Urantia mortal has ever been subjected to, or most likely could ever withstand, and yet remained alive physically.

A: He was also torn by a great [[turmoil]] related to the [[trial]] of [[Lucifer]], for His life on [[Urantia]] as you know was a key [[argument]] presented to the [[Ancients of Days]] against the [[rebuttals]] of [[Lucifer]] in his own [[defense]]. So [[Jesus]], the man, at the time - He was fully aware of His complete [[identity]] and [[purpose]] - experienced far, far more pain than any [[Urantia]] [[mortal]] has ever been subjected to, or most likely could ever withstand, and yet remained alive [[physically]].

S: I'm amazed. I didn't realize that the life of Jesus had been presented to the court of the Ancients of Days in the trial of Lucifer, Gabriel vs Lucifer. That is an amazing concept. I certainly agree with you. I see now how it had to be, but I hadn't even thought of that before.

S: I'm [[amazed]]. I didn't [[realize]] that the life of [[Jesus]] had been presented to the [[court]] of the [[Ancients of Days]] in the [[trial]] of [[Lucifer]], [[Gabriel vs. Lucifer]]. That is an [[amazing]] [[concept]]. I certainly [[agree]] with you. I see now how it had to be, but I hadn't even thought of that before.

R: Yes, it is somewhat different from your own legal practice.

R: Yes, it is somewhat [[different]] from your own [[legal]] [[practice]].

S: It's difficult for us, with our limited knowledge of Jesus' life from the writings we have on our planet, to picture fully all the things that He was doing in the latter part of His life on earth. He was helping to govern the planet, helping to deal with the rebellion, and still carrying out His Father's mission here to help us understand Father and Father to understand us. It's a marvel that He could do it all.

S: It's [[difficult]] for us, with our limited [[knowledge]] of [[Jesus]]' life from the [[writings]] we have on [[our planet]], to [[picture]] fully all the things that He was doing in the latter part of [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=The_Urantia_Text_-_Contents#Part_IV._The_Life_and_Teachings_of_Jesus His life on earth]. He was helping to [[govern]][[ the planet]], helping to deal with [[the rebellion]], and still carrying out His Father's [[mission]] here to help us understand [[the Father|Father]] and Father to [[understand]] us. It's a marvel that He could do it all.

R: Yes, it is one of the wonderful mysteries of the cosmos. As Urantia evolves and its peoples advance in their evolution, there will be yet more revelations. It is likely that when this planet enters light and life, a day by day, almost hour-by-hour account, of the life of Jesus will be available to all for review.

R: Yes, it is one of the [[wonderful]] [[mysteries]] of the [[cosmos]]. As [[Urantia]] evolves and its peoples advance in their [[evolution]], there will be yet more [[revelations]]. It is likely that when [[this planet]] enters [[light and life]], a day by day, almost hour-by-hour account, of the life of [[Jesus]] will be available to all for review.

S: I'm anxious to review it. (01/02/94)

S: I'm anxious to review it. (01/02/94)

===PATIENCE===

===PATIENCE===

R: Since we have a somewhat smaller group than usual, we can be a bit more intimate in our discussion which will probably be to your liking. Patience. This is a topic which will be reinforced from time to time because the engineers of this teaching mission are very keenly aware that there is great trial and tribulation in your existence on Urantia at the present time. Not only have you to deal with the residual of the rebellion, but there is also going to be a certain amount of turmoil among the masses due to the reestablishment of the universe circuits and the intermittent upstepping of the power of the transmissions. Those who are less well-prepared than yourselves will find themselves to be more irritable, more easily agitated than had been the case in past. This is because their Thought Adjusters will respond to the increasing signal by attempting stronger, stronger, efforts within, and the mind of the given being set in certain animal ways that - not necessarily defeat, but make it more difficult for the Thought Adjusters cooperative efforts to proceed - will set up a turmoil within the conscious mind. To restate this, those humans on Urantia who have not been working in concert with the Mystery Monitor within up until recent months will be the ones who become somewhat unstable and this in turn may lead to some social repercussions and the appearance, at least, of social destabilization. But do not be alarmed, my friends, because this is only a temporary situation. Remember that no change is wrought in the cosmos without some rearrangement of existing structures, whatever they may be, and at times it is necessary to eliminate old and no longer necessary forms. With the upstepping of the energy of transmission, the social destabilization that results will ultimately lead to this end, that is, mankind on Urantia will be one step closer to light and life when all the dust settles. How long this will take I do not know. How can you best get through this period? That is where patience comes in. Remember again the life of Jesus on this planet, the model of patience. Your religionists have attempted to persuade their followers that by following Jesus's example one would be enabled to have a life without fear, without material worry, indeed some have promised great wealth and total freedom from worry, pain, violence. Of course, you know this is not true. Recall the manner in which Jesus died on Urantia, if you need any reminders. But He died without fear. And He died with his faith intact, His manly faith as opposed to His spiritual knowledge because of His awareness of His identity. And most of all He patiently bore all that occurred. If the Son of God and the Son of man could be patient and endure a period of life in the flesh on Urantia, then this is, or can be, of much comfort to you. And when you one day meet Michael of Nebadon and are privileged to share with Him your memories of life on Urantia, the patience with which you bore your own personal tribulations will be a very special thing, a shining facet. To think that you could have that in common with a Creator Son is marvellous indeed, is it not?

R: Since we have a somewhat smaller group than usual, we can be a bit more intimate in our discussion which will probably be to your liking. Patience. This is a topic which will be reinforced from time to time because the engineers of this teaching mission are very keenly aware that there is great trial and tribulation in your existence on Urantia at the present time. Not only have you to deal with the residual of the rebellion, but there is also going to be a certain amount of turmoil among the masses due to the reestablishment of the universe circuits and the intermittent upstepping of the power of the transmissions. Those who are less well-prepared than yourselves will find themselves to be more irritable, more easily agitated than had been the case in past. This is because their Thought Adjusters will respond to the increasing signal by attempting stronger, stronger, efforts within, and the mind of the given being set in certain animal ways that - not necessarily defeat, but make it more difficult for the Thought Adjusters cooperative efforts to proceed - will set up a turmoil within the conscious mind. To restate this, those humans on Urantia who have not been working in concert with the Mystery Monitor within up until recent months will be the ones who become somewhat unstable and this in turn may lead to some social repercussions and the appearance, at least, of social destabilization. But do not be alarmed, my friends, because this is only a temporary situation. Remember that no change is wrought in the cosmos without some rearrangement of existing structures, whatever they may be, and at times it is necessary to eliminate old and no longer necessary forms. With the upstepping of the energy of transmission, the social destabilization that results will ultimately lead to this end, that is, mankind on Urantia will be one step closer to light and life when all the dust settles. How long this will take I do not know. How can you best get through this period? That is where patience comes in. Remember again the life of Jesus on this planet, the model of patience. Your religionists have attempted to persuade their followers that by following Jesus's example one would be enabled to have a life without fear, without material worry, indeed some have promised great wealth and total freedom from worry, pain, violence. Of course, you know this is not true. Recall the manner in which Jesus died on Urantia, if you need any reminders. But He died without fear. And He died with his faith intact, His manly faith as opposed to His spiritual knowledge because of His awareness of His identity. And most of all He patiently bore all that occurred. If the Son of God and the Son of man could be patient and endure a period of life in the flesh on Urantia, then this is, or can be, of much comfort to you. And when you one day meet Michael of Nebadon and are privileged to share with Him your memories of life on Urantia, the patience with which you bore your own personal tribulations will be a very special thing, a shining facet. To think that you could have that in common with a Creator Son is marvellous indeed, is it not?