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Donna D'Ingillo wrote on tml:
Donna D'Ingillo wrote on tml:
Reply to #3, [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Teaching_Mission_.28Napierville.29 that was April 1993 around the 26 or 27 if my memory serves me. Naperville, IL] ( think it was a Holiday Inn or some other hotel like that)--rdavis 01:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Reply to #3, [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism that was April 1993 around the 26 or 27 if my memory serves me. Naperville, IL] ( think it was a Holiday Inn or some other hotel like that)--rdavis 01:58, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
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3. Naperville, Illinois. April 24, 1993.
3. Naperville, Illinois. April 24, 1993.
this confirms the date mentioned in [http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Teaching_Mission_.28Napierville.29 the record].
this confirms the date mentioned in [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=1993-01-01-Rayson_%26_Friends,_Vol._2,_Part_1#Materialization.2C_Sensationalism the record].
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Good night, Gerdean, my loyal student .
Good night, Gerdean, my loyal student .
*See also '''''[[1993-04-27-Tomas on Naperville]]''''' where the two lessons above are combined with a third shared on tml 2/15/2012--rdavis 06:07, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
[[Category: Materialization]]
== Jim's further reflection ==
== Jim's further reflection ==
Onward as Explorers ...... jim--rdavis 18:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
Onward as Explorers ...... jim--rdavis 18:05, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
== Further Description ==
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 4:11 PM, jamescleveland tds.net <jamescleveland@tds.net> wrote:
Who can explain all of this and human nature? After the Urantially unknown Ms. Green's obviously unsatisfying transmission of Machiventa with his grand announcement, standing there in long white gown, I was surprised to see the mass exodus of humans flocking away, a couple with video camera in tow .... maybe rented for the materialization.
Some folks said ..... well, what the heck, let's talk to the teachers. After we gathered a circle and transmitted Felicia, Andrew and Ms. Green with Machiventa, we were rousted out from the foyer by the hotel staff. From there, the traveling transmitting inquirers moved back into the now empty ballroom and people shared their experiences for awhile, what they felt --BIG incoming energies ... Ironically, as we sat there, a smaller group now, a large hunk of the ballroom ceiling facade at a corner came loose and hung there for a moment .... then crashed to floor. "He's trying to break in," somebody deadpanned.
And then the human nature thing .... when we strolled out into the lobby we found that all this time, the various humans were milling around in fervid conversation over what they thought and why. They preferred this to talking to the teachers ... such an interesting safe haven retreat .... back into the analytical mind. Our usual transmitter was there in the conversation mill, and he never transmitted again. My companion was in the bar, another story.
I am, myself, still limited to speculation on this event of individual experiences, and that's because reasoned, spiritually touched thinking is productive here and should continue as long as issues are at hand.
I did appreciate Machiventa's stated gratitude at the event that we would come, and his promise that we would be blessed with what we most needed.
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Thanks Jim! I didn't see that the excerpt you enclosed was from Session 28 of the record entitled 1993-03-20-Half Moon Bay, Part 2. Earlier in this exchange, I had referenced Session 20 in the same group of lessons. The specific dates for these individual sessions may need to wait upon the incorporation of Susan's records.
Having witnessed several materializations in the course of my life, I can say that while they are conducive to spiritual growth, they are not fully comprehensible to material minds even with the benefit of hindsight even though the value of such disclosures becomes more vivid over the course of living.--rdavis 22:38, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
== Transmitters? ==
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 9:09 PM, Sonny Schneider <sonnybc@look.ca> wrote:
Dear rob
Best person to talk to would be pat shumas as she was the first t/r involved.
Peace, sonny*
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On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Rob Davis <rdavis@daynal.org> wrote:
Hello Sonny-
Thanks for the information! Do you know how I might contact her?
Gratefully,
Rob
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On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 6:25 AM, jamescleveland tds.net <jamescleveland@tds.net> wrote:
Hi Rob and Sonny and all,
I talked to Pat Schomas, who is now into Keylontics, and also referenced her, but not by name. Maybe I spelled Keylontics correctly; they have a site.
She gave me a link to the Machiventa transmitter. Said that people were screaming in her face after the event but she advised them that she didn't do it .... and she herself didn't believe he would show up.
If anyone wants to try and contact Marilyn Green, I can give you a link or two. I'm very busy and not sure she would have anything to add. She transmitted clearly at Naperville but many curiosity people didn't get the vision they wanted.
cheers, jim
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Hello Jim-
Sonny said Pat S. "was the first TR involved". Does that mean she was the first TR involved in the Naperville event? If so, who were the others?
You said Pat S. was "the" Machiventa transmitter and that persons were screaming in her face after the event, but she advised them "she didn't do it". And yet,
You say Marilyn Green transmitted at Naperville but "many curiosity people didn't get the vision they wanted".
As this was expected to be a materialization of Machiventa and/or others, it appears that persons came ready to transmit as well. How many persons were there? How many of those are still alive? Do you these could write an account of the event?
Gratefully,
Rob--rdavis 19:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
== Jim's further description ==
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 8:31 AM, jamescleveland tds.net <jamescleveland@tds.net> wrote:
Hi Rob and all, need to correct and clarify below.
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Rob Davis <rdavis@daynal.org> wrote:
Hello Jim-
Sonny said Pat S. "was the first TR involved". Does that mean she was the first TR involved in the Naperville event? If so, who were the others?
Jim: Pat was a member of a spiritual study group in the area which was not confined to only the Urantia Book. They even published a newsletter which included other new age explorations. I don't know who transmitted within the group besides Pat, but apparently they were the first source of the Machiventa materialization. This material was then linked into the Indianapolis group via their transmitter. Since this event and the huge fall-out, the Indy transmitter chose to withdraw from public transmitting. Over the years he has remained active working with personal seekers and doing excellent work, but wants no more spotlight. Perhaps he thinks that this material was cross-fertilized from the Chicago group into his transmissions and it was an error ..... but I don't know about this. Maybe he just didn't want more people condemning his efforts. Another Indy transmitter continues to be active but he said he asked the celestials to give him basic spiritual growth information and not involve his transmitting into such material. He said the information may not have been accurate.
The fact that this group was not strictly Urantian was the first red flag for some readers.
Our transmitter in Cincinnati transmitted to the group that the materialization would be 'attempted.' The group was literally clamoring to see what their teacher would say. I believe it was Tarkas.
Since the event was already being scheduled, I suppose that Tarkas was accurate. It was a fact, at that point, that the attempt would be made. Perhaps the teachers were being pulled in for the ride.
Our transmitter in Cinti became uncomfortable with the process and quit transmitting. He said that he detected some of himself, his own thoughts, in the transmissions. He was in Indy and experienced all the new age ritual and ceremony which was distasteful to so many readers, and also the fallout conversation after the event. I was then obliged to pick up the responsibility of group transmitter and did it for several years. He and most other people left in a hurry in Chicago and didn't stay for informal transmissions that followed, including another generous transmission of Machiventa by Marilyn. Many were in the hotel lobby talking to themselves.
You said Pat S. was "the" Machiventa transmitter and that persons were screaming in her face after the event, but she advised them "she didn't do it". And yet,
You say Marilyn Green transmitted at Naperville but "many curiosity people didn't get the vision they wanted".
Jim: No, the Machiventa transmitter at the event (Marilyn Green, according to Pat) was unknown to most, as were people in the contingent from Sedona (another red flag for some?) One of the people from Sedona was a black gentleman and Urantia reader, can't remember his name. His primary work in Sedona was welcoming and working with people who were disillusioned with the so-called Gabriel in the Aquarian Concepts community there, which is still operational. One family turned over their money to the community, became disillusioned and lost it all, no refunds. He said these people needed a refuge of help from those machinations.
And yes, many people were just curious, I think, and some did not believe it would happen, even cynical. I think these people contributed no positive energy and possibly enough negative energy to actually hurt the process. But the Urantia community seems to have never been involved in calling on and directing spiritual energies and I doubt that they would believe in the power of focused and concentrated group energy. Resentments of the ceremony and new age involvement further colored their mind. It was a mixed bag of negative and positive energy and too many people thinking it was all B.S. Perhaps the teachers thought they might get committed and positive support for their attempt, but they didn't. What they had was a number of book readers clashing (as usual) with anything new age.
As this was expected to be a materialization of Machiventa and/or others, it appears that persons came ready to transmit as well. How many persons were there? How many of those are still alive? Do you these could write an account of the event?
Jim: I'm working on 8 books, 2 CDs and some websites, no time to write a real history and can't answer those questions. Crowd estimate? May be a bad guess but 150 or more. There were transmitters on hand, but I was not one of them at the time. Bob Slagle made an excellent talk the night before and it's available somewhere or other. He's still with us but I think perhaps in poor health.
I trust the Iruka transmitter so take his/her words seriously. I also believe the event was for the entire local universe and that it was indeed his significant formal establishment as vicegerent planetary prince with his headquarters here on Urantia. If you believe in the TeaM at all, you would acknowledge that they wouldn't carry out a complete fraud with this event by seeing it through despite the human circumstances.
II think the energy focusing ceremony was the idea of the humans and they were not aware it would cause so much controversy among the book-bound seekers. It was an honest and well-meaning attempt to accommodate humans who yearned to be a significant contributor to the event, and demonstrate their commitment. Their intentions were good and they should not be condemned because the book readers had a deep resentment to 'new age' and showed up with suspicion and doubt. It may have been an unnecessary ceremony and it may not have contributed anything to Machiventa's appearance, but how can you fault religionists and new agers for their efforts at spiritual upreach and connection? Such efforts and demonstrations of faith are not bad; they are good. The people involved in the ritual were well-intentioned; too many in the audience were not. Maybe the event served to weed out some of those people. Despising 'new age' is not a criteria for being in the Teaching Mission. Such an attitude, in my view, would not deter reality either. It did NOT prevent Machiventa from formally taking the reins of the Correcting Time and establishing his headquarters here. And those who came in deleterious doubt got exactly what they expected too -- nothing. They certainly would not deserve anything in my view.
Those who came with an open heart and mind have likely all been rewarded for coming, as promised by Machiventa.
For other views, there are chapters by Mike Painter, Marty Risacher and Byron Belitsos in the forthcoming TeaM history book. Each of them had strong doubts; each of them came away thinking that the materialization information was false to begin with, their doubts were justified when it didn't happen and we must be ever-wary of false 'new age' information. The Oklahoma group came in doubt based on transmissions they received from a woman in Oklahoma.
best wishes, jim--rdavis 23:32, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
== New Page ==
I have created a new page for '''''[[Naperville]]''''' and copied the content of this talkpage into the [https://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Naperville talkpage for Naperville] where any new additions will be found.--rdavis 02:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
