Talk:1993-10-24-We Are Partners
Rob wrote: Sunday, April 08, 2012 3:05 PM
In this lesson, reference is made to a Melchizedek who has completed the materialization process and was (or is) roving about getting used to terrestrial life. Iruka says "he will make himself known when the time is right." Given Iruka differentiates this from Naperville, does anyone have any thoughts or insight as to what this person is referring to? Apparently, the first reference is "this thing we heard about last night in Portland" in the unknown Iruka group on 10-24-1993. Also, if anyone can share information about this group, it will be appreciated.
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 5:21 PM, Gerdean O'Dell <email@example.com> wrote:
Looking into my murky crystal ball, I see .... I see a time when news came out of Portland, Oregon, that a Melchizedek had materialized and was seen in a locker room of the YMCA. Why he was there is anybody's guess, but he spoke to a man who conveyed the gist of that conversation to his peers in the home TeaM but no transcript was made. That was somewhat bandied about and publicized at the first Teaching Mission gathering, held on campus in Cheney, Washington.
Rob wrote: Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:27 PM:
Hello Gerdean! Thank you for sharing this facet of social history. The more I study the transcripts, it is more evident the human story is as illuminating as the divine.--rdavis 02:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
Gerdean wrote: Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 1:45 AM That has been my point, all along. It is the RELATIONSHIP that holds our interest. How we get along. That's where the STORY is, and we all do love a good story. And to be a character in the story, well, that's even better. Add the spiritual dimension and you have something that is "humanly sacred!" After all, we are told to "love one another." We have to learn how to do that, and that, too, is where the stories are.
Rob wrote: Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 11:02 AM Yours and others who feel divinity's adoration of our humanity, but then that is not something communicated by words.
Steffani wrote: Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 9:59 AM
Theoretically, just about anyone could somehow see a Melchizedek anytime, anywhere...whether or not they'd be aware of what was happening, or how to 'categorize' the experience, depending upon their 'religious' or even 'scientific' beliefs...Or have any idea that something out of the ordinary was even occuring...might be questionable! 35:4.4
Angels and Midwayers have occasionally "materialized" too according to bibical and UB reports...77:8.11-12
...and who by now hasn't seen a 'UFO' seemingly blip into and back out of 'material reality"?
(especially those sharp right angle take offs, like when you're watching a smoothly sky-sailing small starlike object, and start thinking why, if it's a satellite, that it's over there, and suddenly you're standing there scratching your head wondering just WTF was that ?!? ;-)29:4.19
These probably aren't every day occurences, but there is no reason to deny there is occasionally some means of temporarily overlapping material and morontial states of being.51:2.2
I really think one reason we have been given the Urantia Papers as a written revelation is to open our minds to imaginative possibilities our brain's perceptual and ego's filtering devices would otherwise insist upon denying altogether.
...by the fact the UB authors, who well understand both spirituality and science...see so few "miracles"
Rob wrote: Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 9:14 PM
Thank you Steffani. Yes, all this is true, but it would irresponsible for a morontia teacher to positively affirm the materialization of a being who was intending to remain in visible form if such were not true. I view this as an example of the fallibility of human communication.
Ron Besser wrote: Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 9:48 PM
I am not disagreeing with your statement below (just above here), but there is something you might want to know concerning this event and what may have led up to Naperville.
To some extent Naperville was a conspiracy of spiritual forces and material discernment. There is substantial evidence there was disagreement in the planetary government levels over what was being conducted and why. Unfortunately that evidence has been sealed and some of it was accidentally seen by me before it was taken from view - locked up - in October of 2011 by the assigned sentinels. There is good reason to believe the matter is being adjudicated as we speak and that these kinds of influences have permanently been removed as of late 2011.
I will also say this: When full disclosure is available about this era we have passed through together, it is going to open many eyes about the potential for evil influences to have controlled or twisted the event that some of you experienced under the Naperville conference banner. This is not saying any human misspoke or was in error, but it may be said that the some individuals involved on the celestial side have been detained and questioned in their role of Naperville.
On another subject but related: The unknown group you referenced concerning Iruka: It was from Seabrook, Maryland. The T/R then would have been Pam Sanderson (Pamella) and Iruka was group teacher through her. I briefly joined the group, I believe, circa 1994-95, which was located about 100 miles from me so I was not regularly attending. I do not recall the session you quoted from October 1994 concerning the materialization. I do know the subject was frequently discussed but never recorded for transcription purposes.
Also, for what it is worth, I believe that the materialization you question was identical to the materialization proposed at Naperville, and the conspiracy (if that is the proper word) craftily invented some details that could be true but were never realized. You will notice that the whole subject was dropped by 1995, and any other references take us to a dead-end unless some may wish to chase unsubstantiated rumor. There is an unaccountable gap in all transmissions from October 1994 to mid-may 1995 over all groups and lessons and I look suspiciously at the April 1994 event as the cause for a complete re-evaluation of policy regarding the teaching mission at that time.
Rob wrote: Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 10:17 PM
Thank you for sharing! I appreciate your recognition of the finitude of beings this side of Paradise and the imperfection inherent in such a state. It is clear that we are engaged in an experiment guided with utmost caution giving rise to the conditions you cite and others' experience off record.
I note with interest your mentioning Nebadonia's name being disclosed concurrent with 'normalization' in 1995 given the guarded manner of teachers prior to that concerning her role in the Teaching Mission.
If you don't mind, I would like to add your comments to the discussion page for the lesson where this is first mentioned. Also, I appreciate your sharing information about the Seabrook group. Would it be ok to incorporate that information into the record?
Gerdean wrote: Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 10:03 PM
I concur about Pam Sanderson being T/R for Iruka in Maryland. She was also connected to the Pocatello group, from whence she came and to which she did return and there now resides.
You said, "You may also wish to note and think about the fact that not until June of 1995 when Christ Michael issued a dispensational proclamation, and at the same time, Mother Spirit, asked to be known as Nebadonia, did things normalize." Can you direct us to the transcripts that cover the June 1995 proclamation(s)?
On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Ron Besser <Ron_Besser@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi rob, before you add comments - The name Nebadonia appears for the first time I know of (subject to further investigation) in August 1994, but there was an additional Creative Spirit proclamation on June 8, 1995. I would wait a few days before adding this part about when the name Nebadonia appears which I first thought was in June 1995, but her proclamation had to do with other issues I am not clear about tonight.
She is communicating by name in this lesson 1993-09-21-Elyon Introduces Self and referenced perhaps incorrectly in the Celestial Discovery Group series though the latter may be in error. I will however, as you request delete your comments in this discussion page re: Nebadonia until further notice.The change is shown in the history of the page.--rdavis 04:23, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Ron Besser <Ron_Besser@comcast.net> wrote:
I think I found the mysterious transcription that started the rumor that a Melchizedek had personalized. It is curious that the transcript has been purposefully untitled and the group and transmitter not revealed. In the transcript which I provide below, Christ Michael notes how resisting the transmitter is.
This untitled transcript alludes to Machiventa Melchizedek as the individual who materialized and forecasts Michael's return after no one survives the present era of contact, meaning, I guess, we have all died of old age by then. I pass this on to you all as a curiosity and the source of what Iruka may have reported to the Seabrook MD group in Oct 1994. I will have a few more things to say later on in another post.
Ron--rdavis 23:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your diligence! This is helpful, and I think should be in the general collection, but for my part, I will withhold the identity of the TR and group as it seems that would honor their preference. However, as a general rule, how many transcripts do you think are in the TNN and not in the archives?
Rob--rdavis 23:28, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
TRANSCRIPT [not part of the archived materials in the transcript sections of tmarchives] Jesus' return and Rayson 6/7 1994 TRNN
[Ron's note: There was no newsletter published in April 1994. A newsletter was published in May, 1994 and there is not mention of this message because the group may have withheld the message, and then likely at the end of May or early June, released it to Allene who agreed to receive it but not to publish identity or source of the message in a note in this June/July issue. As a detective who has not had first had access to the original material, the best I can say is that we can suspect this may be from the west coast [because the Iruka transcripts refers to what was said in Portland or was it some other place?] and received perhaps between the end of March 94 to sometime in May of 1994. The transmitter was male.]
Group Name and Transmitter Identity withheld in the newsletter
MICHAEL: But now to the messages which I bring to you. Your transmitter/receiver is rather agitated in his responsibilities tonight in speaking my words but he should know I have great faith in his trusting heart, ability, and desire for service. So, he may be calm and with peace.
I will tell you that upon your planet now is a Melchizedek whom you have known in other times on your world. He has given greatly to the enlightening and furtherance of the knowledge of our Father in heaven. He has done great service for me, his brethren, and of course you, the mortals of Urantia and all spheres of life so given beyond it. Our dear brother, teacher, and friend, Machiventa, has come to your world in a physical form. I make this announcement as his sovereign and as your own. He now takes on ever more responsibilities for my Mission from the Father to your earth, this Urantia, which has been a home to us both, and it will ever be so. We share a common bond with you and between us that will last unto Eternity.
And I am here to tell you tonight as your Lord and Sovereign, and as your human friend--as Michael and as Joshua--and as every incarnation between the two: we have come on a long, dark at times, journey to this point of the New Dawn. Our healing throughout the universe begins now, here, in this room, in the paper in your hands as you hold and read these words. I am beside you; Machiventa walks among you as your brother and a father to you, as well--as I am. We have come to forge this link to the greater Cosmos, consciously, into your consciousness and to the world in which you live with such great hope and expectation.
Your expectations shall be met. It may not be so in your lifetimes, though many here within the hearing and the reach of my voice shall see wonders of renewal, hope, and new life as you could never have imagined. This is no intellectual discourse; this is a challenge to live the teachings which I brought you 2,000 years ago and my brother Machiventa those hundreds of years prior to that time, and which again come to you ever clearer in the book so many of you have reverenced and studied and been challenged by, the Urantia Papers of the Melchizedeks and other Teachers and Helpers in the Father's light, given to your founding brethren in Chicago those decades gone. We salute their valiant efforts at maintaining their charge. We call upon them now to take on the next great challenge, and that is the hearing of my voice: in their hearts and through the mouths of those who connect and speak by way of my Spirit. It is still for each individual to decide whence comes the authority or the lack thereof in such words. You have the seed of Eternity within you in the Father. You have the Spirit of Truth, its great outpouring upon an entire world that is your own. These things are given you freely, and it is for you to use them and seek their guidance, and of the angels surrounding your world and yourselves. Take up this challenge, my brothers and sisters. Believe the voice which speaks deeper than all your nights of loneliness, brighter than the sun of the highest mountain peak, deeper than the sea's dark coldness and depths of gloom. You all know the Truth: which shakes you, which uplifts you, which brings you the peace beyond human understanding and yet completes it. I am the Way and the Light and the way everlasting. Follow me and the voice of the Father in your soul, in your heart of hearts, and the world cannot fall to darkness ever again.
But it is you, my brothers and sisters, you who must take up this challenge: to live your faith, but not trample upon others--their paths are equal to your own in the eyes of God, of our great and loving Father. Deliver your will unto Him and He shall steer you to the brightness of eternal Light, His consuming Fire which does not burn you, His glory everlasting. Take on this challenge, I ask you each, personally. Do not think you need answer now, though many of you in your hearts know the answer. Think deeply and in your proper time decide what you are willing to offer for this Mission. If it is less than your lives, there is no more to say. I do not speak of crucifixion, persecution, or the dire fate of so many of the early martyrs to my belief and the church which was mistakenly built around my earth existence--though in that I do not in any way lessen the sacrifice and gift of those lives.
Your lives must be offered up to perhaps an even greater choice, for it will largely be a quiet one. The drama will be within your own souls and the lives of those you transform, perhaps without you even knowing you are the source, acting for myself and our Father. This is the challenge I place before you. We must move forward. We must decide. He who would keep his life will lose it; and he who gives his life to the Father in my name, in the name of Light, Redemption, Mercy, and Love, shall gain it again, everlastingly. The message has not changed, my brothers and sisters.
I am leaving now from my speaking with you, but of course my heart, my soul, my presence, surrounds you. Heed my words; remember my love and my humanity I shared with you and do still. And remember the Father's mercy and goodness, which may be yours all of your days unto the end of Time. Goodnight for now, my children. God bless you all. I love you, eternally. Good night.
Group: Good night.
[Transcript continues -Editor's note]
Good evening. I am Rayson, a Teacher of the mortal order which has come to your planet in association with the many sons and daughters who have volunteered and have been chosen by the Most High, the Melchizedeks, and our Lord, who has so graciously come to us this evening. I am here as an assistant to your Melchizedek Teachers. They have been very busy in the past days, and ever desire that you should have a Teacher available to you, individually and as a group. For they care for you a great deal, you have rendered a great service in your constancy and dedication to that which you cannot see, as yet.
I have come from many thousands of your miles to be with you tonight, and many millions beyond that to come to your earth itself. I have never experienced the joy of this Mission nor, frankly, could have imagined it until I should have been given this blessed assignment to your world.
I am now going to leave off speaking, for it has been a great strain on your transmitter/receiver tonight to channel, to receive, these messages. I will tell you, if he does not, that he had no notion that our Lord Michael would speak tonight nor that a new Teacher would come to your group, so it has been a rather unsettling, if I would hope, promising surprise for him as perhaps for you in your own different and equal, too, ways of receiving this good news. So my blessings to you, my children, my brothers, my sisters. My thanks for your coming here this evening, and for those of you who read this, for your interest in it, in this Mission, and the particular teachings which may come from this group, to add to those many other groups who function equally in the Light and with such goodness and joy. Above and below, within and without, the joy surrounds this world. You are a part of that joyous creation, never forget that. I will leave you for tonight, but I look forward to speaking with you again soon. And again, I am available to you individually as well. Good night, my children. I love you very much, as does the Father in His eternal Grace and Wisdom and Joy. Good night.
(Allene's Editorial Note:) [In discussing this with the sender of this transcript, it has been deemed best that the group name be withheld for now as it is the message not the group that is of importance. To the members of this group, please accept our appreciation for sharing this transcript. - Editor's note /Allene/]
Jim Cleveland wrote: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 3:11 PM
Do you have a collection of transcripts from Michael Palmer in Portland, OR? These could possibly be related. I have the print. Most are from Michael of Nebadon.
Michael showed up at the first TeaM conference at East Washington State University and gave a presentation on reluctantly received messages he was getting related to a materialization in the Wilmette (sp?) Valley and establishment of a network of Melchizedek Universities on the way. Lack of such materalization soured some feelings up there but know little more or nothing else about it.
If this is on track and connected to the transcript below, (above here) we can talk further.
Haven't been able to contact Mr. Palmer for some years. I think his group may have been a couple of guys or three. Transcripts are very nice and eloquent.
So are we still on tap for physical Melchizedek Universities, as said in 1994.
Michael was also in Fayetteville next year and performed Almost Independence Day, Van Morrison, on piano. Nice song for a Portlander.
Years go by ....
Ron Besser wrote: Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:27 PM
A side note: In the August 1994 newsletter, Allene was briefing the audience about the Spokane conference held July 14 -17 1994 (going from memory), she referred back to the June/July newsletter and the transmission of Michael which I forwarded to this list a post or two back. It now seems we have the name of our transmitter. Here is the quote from the editor of the newsletter and the pertinent part in the red font:
Michael Palmer transmitted Norsen, who went on to say more about commitment and answer questions. It was from Michael Palmer that the announcement of Michael came as printed in the June/July issue of the newsletter.
Insofar as I can find, there is nothing from the Michael Palmer days in the transcript archive. I may not recognize them if we do have something.