Talk:2013-01-13-N. Idaho TeaM
Discussion of Eisenhower
January 18, 2013
Spirit4ya (John Kimble) wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:30 PM
Eisenhower ?????? What the....! When Ron Besser, channelled Eisenhower, he was wrote off as being crazy.
What say you about this Gerdean?
I thought the UB says mortals cannot communicate with us within the dispensation in which they lived.
Of course, we have had a few dispensations since Eisenhower graduated, but this is NOT in the UB!!! This is NEW unwritten Revelation or rather "Living" updated Revelation.
If it's not in the UB, it's not true - right? Are Mark and Cathy making the same mistake as Ron? No Way!! it's not possible.
So, what are we to do with this, believe or not believe? This time, it did not come through Ron's far-out Imagination.
Ha ha, I Love It!! Let's see how TML handles this one. I have a feeling 2013, will be a very interesting year indeed. lol
So, as we say in Chess, "your move" Gerdean and Steffani.
Always with Brotherly love.
STuTe
Gerdean wrote: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:25 PM
It all depends, STuTe, on whether you bow to Mr. Besser's authority and consider December 30 to be the official day of the new dispensation. If that is the case, then it would be acceptable to contact anyone from a previous dispensation, such as Eisenhower, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Gurdjief, Paramahansa Yogananda, Judas, even Rick Giles as Jonathan. On the other hand, if you believe, as I do, that Mr. Besser is talking out of the other side of his hat, all these amusing, sentimental, anecdotal, and/or history-laden messages are better termed "creative license" which, to me, in our case, closely resembles "liberty without license" -- a characteristic of the Lucifer legacy.
But no, STuTe, we have not had "a few dispensations since Eisenhower graduated" -- not as I understand dispensations, which occur on an evolving world only once every several thousand years, and a dispensation lasts from 25,000 to 50,000 years or more.
Ron Besser wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:38 PM
Awe and Eisenhower,
I can not tell you how happy I am that Eisenhower was allowed to speak through another. While I am completely aware that I have few principles involved in seeking advice from persons like Eisenhower, I do adore the abilities of those who know enough, feel capable enough, to open their minds and their transmissions to the untraditional contact. It is in these unexpected and out-of-norm contacts which so greatly deepen the understanding of what Urantia is about and what it is like as seen from a distance we do not yet feel is available to us.
Eisenhower is ready to speak to anyone who dares to accept they are better than we have allowed ourselves to be. We, meaning myself and Eisenhower who is here with me as I write this, wish all to carry their sword of promise to others and not allow it lay fallow in the weeds of deplorable fear that you or your partner feels must attest to being allowed to speak for the greats of history and about the deeds they prospered with or fell into oblivion by.
Those of you who fault me or fault North Idaho or those who see further than you can, must take leave of your awe for everything supernatural unless it is sanctioned by the Urantia Book. In many respects the Urantia Book is playing the foil to your progress. Wake up! You are so much more than you allow yourselves!
From the beginning of the Teaching Mission it struck me as an indicator that it will be used as a destroyer of the punishment of what awe does to the will to act in the presence of greatness. My friend Jonathon is making you listen to what you insist is impossible, but the will of God negates your unreasonable attitudes that the law is in the Urantia Book while living spirit has moved on with the change decreed by the Universal Father himself. Jonathan, Eisenhower, Roosevelt, Oppenheimer, Dante, and a great many others now speak to the world through the instrumentation you all possess but guard with such jealousy it never gets used!
While I re-assemble myself to be heard on other subjects in the new year, I am hoping against hope that some of you long timers begin to reassess your stand as to where you will take your courage and your talent and give voice to the new age that is now upon us. All of you understand too little to complain about those who would point it out to you, but all the while, you are subject to the paradigm that has been substituted for what has been for what is now.
God Bless North Idaho for standing tall and speaking to the host of newcomers to the lectures of history that will be upon us in a few short months!
Ron Besser
Rob wrote: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:31 PM
What minds attribute mindless mechanisms with authority?
- re: :On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Spirit4ya <spirit4ya@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Let's see how TML handles this one
Rob wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:40 PM
Hello Ron-
Glad to see you again, and welcome! Of course, the reliance upon external authority is not so much a fallacy as it is an indication of reliance upon the visible to verify the invisible. To the extent this exists for any is the measure of their relative degree of personal attunement. When all is said and done, each individual is responsible for discerning what is of value regardless of attributions, human or divine. To that end, discussions of such questions will be recorded in the talkpage of any lesson.
Gratefully,
Rob
Oliver Deux wrote: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 7:16 PM
Dear STuTe
The style of your provocation hit me as to be resembling to what an aficionado of a spectator sport would say.
Discernment is something that needs to be practiced regularly and lends itself readily to personal value manifestations. It is definitely very personal, and thusly unique.
The most important values clearly come from Jesus himself. He said, "...And so send I you abroad to preach this salvation of sonship. Salvation is the free gift of God, but those who are born of the spirit will immediately begin to show forth the fruits of the spirit in loving service to their fellow creatures. And the fruits of the divine spirit which are yielded in the lives of spirit-born and God-knowing mortals are: loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace." (2054.3) 193:2.2
Discernment can have at its root a courageous loyalty to the values and meaning that have allowed a person to grow spiritually. Can you imagine a time where all interested in the Teaching Mission also studied The Urantia Book? When you said, "I thought the UB says..." it really only reflects on you and your values concerning an epochal revelation that I still recommend to invest as much time with as humanly possible.
All else, ALL ELSE, is at best a co-creation between a human mind and what it allows to filter through its built-in filters. And the human mind is always involved. Daniel prooved this the other day when he listened in to what was being said, and adviced the questioner that the teacher had already answered well enough. The transcriber then continue to point out how really different Daniel's syntax was from that of the channeled teacher, as further proof for Daniel's authenticity. Who needs to be convinced? And the teacher, how very human, allegedly confirmed that Daniel gets it all the worlds right. How convenient it is for the ego to pad itself on its back. A celestial teacher will hardly feed human ego dramas. Basic human phsycholgy, well understood by any teacher worth his or her salt. (And why are there more male teachers than female, when all the world knows that unless the female gender is completely integrated in culture and society and leadership positions, the males will continue to spread teresterone-based thinking, which got us where we are?)
The names of teachers are ever so relative. It is my experience and those of several receivers that I have exchange with and tested this premise with, that, yes, we can open ourselves to lessons, and as the mind desires to speak to a certain teacher that it can accept, that teacher will be there -- no matter what the name is. The celestial downpour will feed into every human crack that opens up. My mind has a whole list of personalities it wants to avoid because I am human and I have my prejudices and personal values, which are not always spirit values. I can only perpetually yearn for the latter to manifest increasingly in my life. I can pray that I get help to manifest them each day more.
New teacher names are often difficult to understand. We have tried spelling, and a co-R/T and I received different spellings. My spirit name was equally difficult to get right. So was it with the Melchizdek Ahmoran, who first was A-moran -- no kidding.
Discernment can grow when you study the revelation and also recall what you recall from hundreds of transmissions you read over time. You look for unfailing consistency. What sticks out too far is very probably mind generated. I think that Churchill was the most advanced leader of his time and not Eisenhower. After Stalin's death Churchill wanted the recently elected president Eisenhower to open towards the Soviet Union. Eisenhower's mentor, John Forster Dulles, opposed that. Going at the present rate, it is only a question of time before we hear from Dulles and Stalin, even Hitler, because questioning minds just want to know what happened to these minds that influenced and killed so many. And why Eisenhower? Was he living the fruits of the spirit then, or was he retrained in the few years since? All that stuff is not the Teaching Mission that I subscribed to, not at all.
Was my mind focused and inclined to speak with personalities that live as close to the Universal Father as we know, and then a bit later talk to historic figures, as Ron has demonstrated, I definitely would have picked Churchill. You see how personal this gets when you set yourself up as a leader in receiving alledged messages from former mortals, who had just a few years, or in the case of brother Jonathan, months to become a teacher. The message will sound okay as long as the spirit values and their fruits are expressed. I am discerningly convinced that teachers could care less if we get names right, or make up phantasy names, as long as spiritual fruits are fed to a planet that is in such desperation for light and life.
Oliver
John Kimble (Stute) wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:03 PM
No, I bow to no "human" authority, as I SEE the T/Ring process as new and experimental. Until we "perfect" the T/Ring process, which could take many generations, in my view, I will always take Ron's stuff and even your transmissions Gerdean, with a grain of salt, slanted, especially since you represent the opposite extreme on the Monjoronson issue. It would really be GREAT if you would "OPEN" to Monjoronson so TML will balanced. Especially, since so many others T/Rs already transmit his messages.
While many believe and transmit Monjoronson, not just Ron, even you once; your insistence that Monjoronson is a "widget" and does not exist, keeps me from bowing to your authority. I SEE you as the extreme opposite of Ron. The fact is Gerdean, because you are "closed minded" to Monjoronson, this prevents you from receiving him. That's pretty obvious from where I sit. For me, I always seek the middle ground where ALL things are possible and where God is a "Living" God and not frozen between the pages of a book.
Outside of the UB, we have in the past received "Living" updated transmissions, not just from Ron, stating that this planet has already experienced "special" dispensations. But, since that info is not in the UB, IT DID NOT HAPPEN. Ridiculous!! Deep critical thinking and the fact that this planet is not frozen in time, reveals the Truth of this.
It's amazing to me how the world stopped turning or growing in experienced and activity since the UB was printed. EVERYTHING STOPPED!!! Even the activities of the Spirit Beings STOPPED. All spirit beings and activities are frozen in time until a new UB is delivered. RIDICULOUS!! Man! I wish they would hurry up and give us another UB so we can get some updated information just to satisfy you, as that's the ONLY way to get it.
Until that happens, the UB fundamentalist, the extreme conservatives on this site, will continue to claim transmitting "Eisenhower" and others of that era IS NOT POSSIBLE.
A Closed Mind is dangerous.
STuTe
January 19, 2013
Tom Newbill wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 4:02 AM
When transcribing I rarely add group comments, however after Eisenhower spoke several thanked him...Mark Turnbull playfully chimed in ...."my dad voted for you."--rdavis 15:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Rob wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM
thank you Tom! As you may have discerned, I think the comments of Teaching Mission participants is as revealing as the lessons, perhaps even more so. However, in the Nordan Symposia, they appear in a separate talkpage into which I have added your note. Tell Mark, my dad voted for him too! ;-)
Steffani wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:01 AM
How does it even make sense to ANYONE that present day mortals are going to learn the lessons of love and spiritual progress from former humans, particularly militaristic types who may still be undergoing serious remediation on mansonia one, recovering from the incalculable harm done to their fellows during their lives? From whence would any benefit be derived from seeking out those who made their careers "in the world" by practicing war and politics? These were hardly known as compassionate and caring men who put God first during their lives on Urantia...Well known, smart and (in)famous are very different qualities than those of loving the LORD with all one's heart and soul and seeking the Heavenly Kingdom to come on Urantia by elevating Father's Will to one's internal prime directive!
This israther like seeking counsel from Herod, Judas Iscariot, and Pontius Pilate...not that some imaginative "channelers" haven't engaged in that sort of nonsense...and sometimes even tried to share it here! This is very different from heatring from ascendant mortals who graduated from advanced worlds in light and life and are given the opportunity to serve as teachers to people on a disordered earlier evolution status planet like Urantia as a learning experience mutually helpful both to them and our planetary population. THEIR goal is to teach us how to LIVE the 'golden rule' in our daily lives, and facilitate processes by which we may safely attain Father/Adjuster communion, and to begin to understand, befriend, and 'socialize' with them on a increasingly cosmic and celestial level.
Gerdean wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:01 AM
We were introduced to you as an historian, Rob, so it is no surprise that you are excited to see American history make its way into the movement. No doubt much can be learned from men and women who have notably contributed to Urantia's development, and the spirit of their experience no doubt participates through their words echoing down the annals of history and through their contribution to the Evolving Supreme. But you err on a number of points, none of which I will dicker with you about except to say that your perspective does not carry any more authority than mine does.
Your friend Jonathan is not making anybody do anything. My friend Jonathan would be "turning over in his grave," as would Alan, Isaac, Jeremiah, Thea and a number of others if they found we were taking their name in vain and pissing on the revelation whose truths and principles they dedicated their lives. But it doesn't really matter about them since they are not here to witness these machinations, nor does it serve to attempt to set the No.ID and the So.ID groups against each other. No.ID has always been a progressive community and we have always cheered them on, but they are still just as human as the rest of us.
And don't feel too self-satisfied about the "UB Fundie" angle because that is simply not the case. None of us were born yesterday. After reading the UB for over four decades and now finishing up The Sherman Diaries, it is clear that the Papers were tampered with by well-meaning but self-serving mortals just as the TeaM transcripts have been tampered with by well-meaning but self-serving mortals. There is no more a pure page on this planet than there is a pure race.
Then on one hand you call for the long-timers to shape up and serve the new age, and on the other hand you tell us we understand too little to complain about the fact that we are barking up the wrong tree.
Give my regards to Ike.
Gerdean
Jim Cleveland wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 9:01 AM
Hi Ron,
Some New Agers say it all happened in December and we just weren't tuned in to it. We are now in another era or something.
How about enlightening us all on why the moon is still here and all the changes that weren't apparent or weren't real.
If we continue to sweep these prophecies under the rug, wait a decent interval and start up another string hoping that people will forget the folly of the last one and embrace the next one, we will be on an endless treadmill of going nowhere.
The Urantia papers are packed with facts and insights. But often the authors speculate on their own. Our critics are still pointing to the passage saying that the midwayers had nothing to do with the spiritist seances in the early part of the last century. They apply this today to Michael's teachers, though it is nonsensical to do it. Everything in the book is not holy writ. There is also speculation on the thousands of years it will take for anything to happen on Urantia, which nullifies the TM of today.
And when they say mortals don't ordinarily return to the planet of their origin, they did not take into account the interplanetary Correcting Time of today because it didn't exist. If former mortals of the planet are helpful, I have no doubt that they can become contributors to the mission. People can identify with them readily.
But a lot of people don't know what to make of Ron's material, and are less accepting of it since the December nothingness. The TM has been chopped into several pieces over the years and this seems to have been very counterproductive to me. A house divided against itself can't stand. And so we're mostly sitting on our butts and arguing.
Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:07 AM
The Master learned from everyone and thereby became a teacher for all. It would appear the demythologizing of "the teachers" or "celestials" is gaining ground as we slowly surrender to the truth that we have been trained as teachers whose 'authority' is measured by our love.
