Talk:2013-01-13-N. Idaho TeaM

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Lighterstill.jpg Discussion of Eisenhower

January 18, 2013

Spirit4ya (John Kimble) wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:30 PM

Eisenhower ?????? What the....! When Ron Besser, channelled Eisenhower, he was wrote off as being crazy.

What say you about this Gerdean?

I thought the UB says mortals cannot communicate with us within the dispensation in which they lived.

Of course, we have had a few dispensations since Eisenhower graduated, but this is NOT in the UB!!! This is NEW unwritten Revelation or rather "Living" updated Revelation.

If it's not in the UB, it's not true - right? Are Mark and Cathy making the same mistake as Ron? No Way!! it's not possible.

So, what are we to do with this, believe or not believe? This time, it did not come through Ron's far-out Imagination.

Ha ha, I Love It!! Let's see how TML handles this one. I have a feeling 2013, will be a very interesting year indeed. lol

So, as we say in Chess, "your move" Gerdean and Steffani.

Always with Brotherly love.


Gerdean wrote: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:25 PM

It all depends, STuTe, on whether you bow to Mr. Besser's authority and consider December 30 to be the official day of the new dispensation. If that is the case, then it would be acceptable to contact anyone from a previous dispensation, such as Eisenhower, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Gurdjief, Paramahansa Yogananda, Judas, even Rick Giles as Jonathan. On the other hand, if you believe, as I do, that Mr. Besser is talking out of the other side of his hat, all these amusing, sentimental, anecdotal, and/or history-laden messages are better termed "creative license" which, to me, in our case, closely resembles "liberty without license" -- a characteristic of the Lucifer legacy.

But no, STuTe, we have not had "a few dispensations since Eisenhower graduated" -- not as I understand dispensations, which occur on an evolving world only once every several thousand years, and a dispensation lasts from 25,000 to 50,000 years or more.

Ron Besser wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:38 PM

Awe and Eisenhower,

I can not tell you how happy I am that Eisenhower was allowed to speak through another. While I am completely aware that I have few principles involved in seeking advice from persons like Eisenhower, I do adore the abilities of those who know enough, feel capable enough, to open their minds and their transmissions to the untraditional contact. It is in these unexpected and out-of-norm contacts which so greatly deepen the understanding of what Urantia is about and what it is like as seen from a distance we do not yet feel is available to us.

Eisenhower is ready to speak to anyone who dares to accept they are better than we have allowed ourselves to be. We, meaning myself and Eisenhower who is here with me as I write this, wish all to carry their sword of promise to others and not allow it lay fallow in the weeds of deplorable fear that you or your partner feels must attest to being allowed to speak for the greats of history and about the deeds they prospered with or fell into oblivion by.

Those of you who fault me or fault North Idaho or those who see further than you can, must take leave of your awe for everything supernatural unless it is sanctioned by the Urantia Book. In many respects the Urantia Book is playing the foil to your progress. Wake up! You are so much more than you allow yourselves!

From the beginning of the Teaching Mission it struck me as an indicator that it will be used as a destroyer of the punishment of what awe does to the will to act in the presence of greatness. My friend Jonathon is making you listen to what you insist is impossible, but the will of God negates your unreasonable attitudes that the law is in the Urantia Book while living spirit has moved on with the change decreed by the Universal Father himself. Jonathan, Eisenhower, Roosevelt, Oppenheimer, Dante, and a great many others now speak to the world through the instrumentation you all possess but guard with such jealousy it never gets used!

While I re-assemble myself to be heard on other subjects in the new year, I am hoping against hope that some of you long timers begin to reassess your stand as to where you will take your courage and your talent and give voice to the new age that is now upon us. All of you understand too little to complain about those who would point it out to you, but all the while, you are subject to the paradigm that has been substituted for what has been for what is now.

God Bless North Idaho for standing tall and speaking to the host of newcomers to the lectures of history that will be upon us in a few short months!

Ron Besser

Rob wrote: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:31 PM

What minds attribute mindless mechanisms with authority?

  • re: :On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Spirit4ya <> wrote:
Let's see how TML handles this one

Rob wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:40 PM

Hello Ron-

Glad to see you again, and welcome! Of course, the reliance upon external authority is not so much a fallacy as it is an indication of reliance upon the visible to verify the invisible. To the extent this exists for any is the measure of their relative degree of personal attunement. When all is said and done, each individual is responsible for discerning what is of value regardless of attributions, human or divine. To that end, discussions of such questions will be recorded in the talkpage of any lesson.



Oliver Deux wrote: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 7:16 PM

Dear STuTe

The style of your provocation hit me as to be resembling to what an aficionado of a spectator sport would say.

Discernment is something that needs to be practiced regularly and lends itself readily to personal value manifestations. It is definitely very personal, and thusly unique.

The most important values clearly come from Jesus himself. He said, "...And so send I you abroad to preach this salvation of sonship. Salvation is the free gift of God, but those who are born of the spirit will immediately begin to show forth the fruits of the spirit in loving service to their fellow creatures. And the fruits of the divine spirit which are yielded in the lives of spirit-born and God-knowing mortals are: loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace." (2054.3) 193:2.2

Discernment can have at its root a courageous loyalty to the values and meaning that have allowed a person to grow spiritually. Can you imagine a time where all interested in the Teaching Mission also studied The Urantia Book? When you said, "I thought the UB says..." it really only reflects on you and your values concerning an epochal revelation that I still recommend to invest as much time with as humanly possible.

All else, ALL ELSE, is at best a co-creation between a human mind and what it allows to filter through its built-in filters. And the human mind is always involved. Daniel prooved this the other day when he listened in to what was being said, and adviced the questioner that the teacher had already answered well enough. The transcriber then continue to point out how really different Daniel's syntax was from that of the channeled teacher, as further proof for Daniel's authenticity. Who needs to be convinced? And the teacher, how very human, allegedly confirmed that Daniel gets it all the worlds right. How convenient it is for the ego to pad itself on its back. A celestial teacher will hardly feed human ego dramas. Basic human phsycholgy, well understood by any teacher worth his or her salt. (And why are there more male teachers than female, when all the world knows that unless the female gender is completely integrated in culture and society and leadership positions, the males will continue to spread teresterone-based thinking, which got us where we are?)

The names of teachers are ever so relative. It is my experience and those of several receivers that I have exchange with and tested this premise with, that, yes, we can open ourselves to lessons, and as the mind desires to speak to a certain teacher that it can accept, that teacher will be there -- no matter what the name is. The celestial downpour will feed into every human crack that opens up. My mind has a whole list of personalities it wants to avoid because I am human and I have my prejudices and personal values, which are not always spirit values. I can only perpetually yearn for the latter to manifest increasingly in my life. I can pray that I get help to manifest them each day more.

New teacher names are often difficult to understand. We have tried spelling, and a co-R/T and I received different spellings. My spirit name was equally difficult to get right. So was it with the Melchizdek Ahmoran, who first was A-moran -- no kidding.

Discernment can grow when you study the revelation and also recall what you recall from hundreds of transmissions you read over time. You look for unfailing consistency. What sticks out too far is very probably mind generated. I think that Churchill was the most advanced leader of his time and not Eisenhower. After Stalin's death Churchill wanted the recently elected president Eisenhower to open towards the Soviet Union. Eisenhower's mentor, John Forster Dulles, opposed that. Going at the present rate, it is only a question of time before we hear from Dulles and Stalin, even Hitler, because questioning minds just want to know what happened to these minds that influenced and killed so many. And why Eisenhower? Was he living the fruits of the spirit then, or was he retrained in the few years since? All that stuff is not the Teaching Mission that I subscribed to, not at all.

Was my mind focused and inclined to speak with personalities that live as close to the Universal Father as we know, and then a bit later talk to historic figures, as Ron has demonstrated, I definitely would have picked Churchill. You see how personal this gets when you set yourself up as a leader in receiving alledged messages from former mortals, who had just a few years, or in the case of brother Jonathan, months to become a teacher. The message will sound okay as long as the spirit values and their fruits are expressed. I am discerningly convinced that teachers could care less if we get names right, or make up phantasy names, as long as spiritual fruits are fed to a planet that is in such desperation for light and life.


John Kimble (Stute) wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:03 PM

No, I bow to no "human" authority, as I SEE the T/Ring process as new and experimental. Until we "perfect" the T/Ring process, which could take many generations, in my view, I will always take Ron's stuff and even your transmissions Gerdean, with a grain of salt, slanted, especially since you represent the opposite extreme on the Monjoronson issue. It would really be GREAT if you would "OPEN" to Monjoronson so TML will balanced. Especially, since so many others T/Rs already transmit his messages.

While many believe and transmit Monjoronson, not just Ron, even you once; your insistence that Monjoronson is a "widget" and does not exist, keeps me from bowing to your authority. I SEE you as the extreme opposite of Ron. The fact is Gerdean, because you are "closed minded" to Monjoronson, this prevents you from receiving him. That's pretty obvious from where I sit. For me, I always seek the middle ground where ALL things are possible and where God is a "Living" God and not frozen between the pages of a book.

Outside of the UB, we have in the past received "Living" updated transmissions, not just from Ron, stating that this planet has already experienced "special" dispensations. But, since that info is not in the UB, IT DID NOT HAPPEN. Ridiculous!! Deep critical thinking and the fact that this planet is not frozen in time, reveals the Truth of this.

It's amazing to me how the world stopped turning or growing in experienced and activity since the UB was printed. EVERYTHING STOPPED!!! Even the activities of the Spirit Beings STOPPED. All spirit beings and activities are frozen in time until a new UB is delivered. RIDICULOUS!! Man! I wish they would hurry up and give us another UB so we can get some updated information just to satisfy you, as that's the ONLY way to get it.

Until that happens, the UB fundamentalist, the extreme conservatives on this site, will continue to claim transmitting "Eisenhower" and others of that era IS NOT POSSIBLE.

A Closed Mind is dangerous.


Gerdean wrote:Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:30 PM

You mistake me, John. But I am too weary to explain myself. again. for what? who cares? it does not matter. The fifth epochal revelation defaulted years ago anyway.

"You're on your own."

John Kimble (Stute) wrote: Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:28 PM

No! really Gerdean. You and so many on this site are quick to jump on Ron's stuff, but rarely do we look at your inconsistencies.

First, if I recall correctly, this Monjoronson character some years ago attempted to "take over" something of yours as if a "spirit being" in a "spirit body" can take over anything of a physical/material nature. So, this tells me it must have been some "human" T/R that was in error, but you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of that to this day.

Second, you begin to transmit CHARLES, who you just loved to transmit, when Charles IS Monjoronson's right-hand assistant. Now, I ask you, what's wrong with this picture. Well, let me tell you. If I had a problem with this Monjoronson character and I could channel Monjoronson's ASSISTANT, the very first question I would ask is: 'Hey Charles, can you enlighten me about this Monjoronson character as I have struggled with believing he is real.' But NO, you did not do that. This is so one-sided and disingenuous. You are NOT interested in learning the Truth of who or what Monjoronson really is. Otherwise, you would have asked.

That's why any transmissions you do where the subject of Monjoronson comes up, is biased and "slanted" in my view, because you are absolutely CLOSED off from receiving Monjoronson energy signature. This recent message coming through you referring to Monjoronson as a "Widget", is a good example. How disrespectful can you be to someone you can not be absolutely sure he does not exists.

I mean, your hated of this "invisible" Spirit Being" really comes across in your transmissions. So, how can TML become this new website and not receive ALL of the Celestial Teachers? What happens when Donna, Daniel, Vicki, and the other T/Rs have an important message for our world from Monjoronson? Oh, I forgot, anything Monjoronson is banned on the new TML. That means this new site will be slanted, biased and "Controlled" by it's new leader - Gerdean.

And then thirdly, this non existent Monjoronson actually made an attempt to speak through you one time, as we all read the transcript, and yet, you still walk away from that experience still believing this guy is not real. Well, who the heck was that speaking through you then, and why have you NOT simply asked your dear friend, Charles, who you do believe is real, about his boss Monjoronson? You SEE the inconsistencies in your stuff Gerdean?

Well, let me tell you Gerdean, I do SEE you, and have over these many years and I am not amused. You are so quick to point out the mote in Ron's eyes and completely over look the huge beam in your own eyes.

All of these T/Rs, Daniel Raphael, Donna, Ron, and so many other have channelled Monjoronson for years now, and yet this guy does not exist. Now, what's wrong with this picture? Are ALL of these people delusional or is it just YOU.

That's why I see you as the opposite of Ron. Ron is open and vulnerable to receive, even if he makes mistakes, and you Gerdean, are so closed off, you limit your ability to receive new personalities from a "living" universe. If it ain't in the UB, it don't exist. NONSENSE!!

Ron may have falling like a star from the skies, but at least he is open enough, vulnerable enough and willing to take the "risk" to hone his skills. T/Ring is like building a successful business, you must be willing to fail in order to succeed. The ONLY way to become a great T/R, you must be willing to OPEN up your mind, get out of the way and be vulnerable to what comes through. It's a process. It takes "Spiritual Courage" and time to get it right.

I give Ron credit for the courage it takes to go far out there on that limb the way he has. That takes "Spiritual Courage" and boy he's got a lot of it and the bruises to go with it. And guess what, having learned from his experience, I bet you Ron will come back a better T/R as a result. He has LEARNED a lot from his failed experiences and you Gerdean, won't even OPEN Your Mind and be vulnerable to the many possibilities.

Now, I ask you, what's wrong with this picture?

Getting REAL in 2013

January 19, 2013

Steffani wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:25 AM


John, even you have to know there's a genuine difference between "making mistakes" and leading others down a dark and bramble strewn path through the woods again and again, year after year!

Maybe Gerdean is right that you'll never "get it" no many how many times it is explained to you...Especially since YOUR main game is playing, "let's you and him FIGHT!" for your own entertainment!

(As others have observed and mentioned) Do you also make a habit of attending dog and cock fights for pleasure? If so...God's gonna getcha for THAT!<g>

Gerdean wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:14 AM

STuTe, STuTe, STute .....

Everybody everywhere these days is quick to jump on somebody else's stuff. The air is CHARGED with emotional knee-jerk reactions to almost every word anyone says. I figure it has to do with the collective consciousness reacting to the NRA / 2nd Amendment issue and the upcoming Inauguration of President Obama on Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Surely I don't have to spell it out for you.

I did enjoy transmitting Charles. Not because he was or was not associated with Monjoronson but because he was a trinitied son, which meant he had earlier experience as a mortal. Besides that, I have enjoyed the company of a Mighty Messenger before, through my first husband Alan who was a contact personality (that was before it was called T/R) and I had some familiarity with their character. I just don't think my human mind is capable of engaging with any Descending Son that has not had human experience. That is my rational response.

But beyond that, I do acknowledge that my bias against Monjoronson is HUGELY influenced by my attitude about Ron Besser. We hashed that over for years and I really don't want to get back into that. I forgave Mr. Besser in 2007 and if I don't pick at the scabs, I barely even remember how much I hemorrhaged over the way he seized the Teaching Mission archives in order to create a foundation upon which to build his Monjoronson Mission, or so I perceived.

No, I am not really interested in finding out who Monjoronson is. For a while I sincerely did want to know and had many conversations with Michael about it, and my personal teachers, who suggested I talk to Monjoronson myself so I did. (You see, I have talked to myself all my life, STuTe. Plus I am a creative writer and I can create dialog all day long with imaginary characters. Ain't no big deal.) I did assure whoever it was I did not believe Monjoronson was the Magisterial Son (because, as I said above, I have too much humility to believe a Magisterial Son has any reason whatsoever to talk to me) and I reserve the right to believe that. The entity or character with whom I was dialogueing had no problem with that. Truth can be had / found through any source. But because of my many protestations over the years about "Besser stealing my transcripts," I am not in the mood now to concede that he was right and I was wrong because I don't really believe that is true. Anyway, if it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. If it matters to you, STuTe, that is something for you to consider, not me.

Charles and I were lined up to have further conference on Light Line but he vanished. I thought maybe Ron Besser told him not to talk to me. :-)

What else? I don't hate anybody, even any invisible. If my disbelief of this entity comes across, fine! But don't put words in my mouth. It's enough that Jack puts words in my mouth -- and Tomas, and Merium, and Andromadeus, and Paulo, and Daniel, and Abraham, and Machiventa, and Michael, and Nebadonia, and all the personal teachers, cherubim, midwayers and student visitors I have transmitted over the years. Actually, I thought Jack's explanation made a lot of sense and even made Monjoronson plausible. He said, you will recall, Monjoronson was a symbol of all our yearning, all our heartfelt need to do something to be of service, to foster spirit reality and do something for our world. It seemed like Jack was exalting this Monjoronson as the personification of what we all long for, which was very healing and congealing. There are different levels of "real" after all. If we all embraced that definition, and put our oomph into the spirit of cooperation, we might actually accomplish something.

Fear not, STuTe. Nobody is going to alter or modify TML and certainly not me. In fact, I am so computer illiterate, it will truly be an act of God if such a site as ever comes to fruition, but yes, that is true, it would be under my control. Even now, you can see what it looks like. It is on, in the Teaching Mission section. If you haven't gone there to check it out, I invite you to do so. And the Living Waters Library, which is the Archives of transcripts, will be arranged according to the groups to which they were assigned.

Ron Besser well might be a better T/R than me; he might be much braver than me. That is not the point. I have done a lot of work for Michael's mission ... through proselytizing the UB and through service to the Teacher Corps ... Tomas and I celebrate our 20th year anniversary of working together next month. I was working with Jack well before the circuits opened and before the Teaching Mission existed, so I am not embarassed by my humble service, nor am I eager to win any prize. My reward has been the companionship of the many Supernals I have enjoyed and the promise of yet more service to come in the Father's fields. And I am sure all of us have that same compelling urge to serve, to act .... even if it's wrong, religionists will do something.

Good night. Gerdean

John Kimble wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 2:05 AM

Having grown up in "fear based" religion, I will never get back into that box again.

UB Fundamentalism, is that box and just as bad as what Ron as done.

Like I said, two extremes, one Conservative and Close minded and the other Liberal and extremely open to anything coming through his head without screening.

I am Independent, In the middle And my job is to make sense of all this mess Until T/R perfection is attained.

Sure Ron made a mess of things, but he did not destroy the world, The teaching mission, the magisterial mission, or anyone else for that matter, just himself.

As for his members, they learned the importance of discernment from their experience And, that was a good thing.

The only true leaders in all of this are Christ Michael, Machiventa and Monjoronson.

I "get it" quite well Stephanie and yes, Life to me is like chess, moves and counter moves, Causes and effects.

This IS the learning and growing game as I see it. Having fun? I am!!

Sweet Dreams

John Kimble wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 2:20 AM

And good night to you Gerdean, I still love you.:))

You too Ron!! Don't give up, come back strong man!!

You too Stephanie.

YouToo TML.

You too

You too Monjoronson!!!

Love to all and a good night.

Rob wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 9:56 AM

Hello Stute-

"Monjoronson" did not take over anything as there is no thing to take. What has "taken over" is the irrationality associated with latent hunger for 'someone' to fix everything. Of course, this won't happen, and the sooner persons can listen for truth without concern for the means of its expression, sharing the same without expectations of how it should be received by others, the sooner this world can begin to live in something other than a state of crisis.



John Kimble (Stute) wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:09 AM

Amen to that Rob. Boy! am I learning the hard way and enjoying every minute of it.

You know, men Naturally Love to fix things. In relationships men love to just fix the problem and make it better.

Since I am a male, I see God as a male and I expect for him to fix things just like I would.

Wishful thinking I know Rob, but one can hope or wish, even if it does not happen.

I KNOW God doesn't do interventions, but I sure wish he did.

Sent from STuTe

Rob wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:24 AM

I am glad to know you're enjoying the process of learning.! The intervention sought occurred before any awakened to awareness of a need for assistance. Such is the provision of our Source.

Tom Newbill wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 4:02 AM

When transcribing I rarely add group comments, however after Eisenhower spoke several thanked him...Mark Turnbull playfully chimed in ...."my dad voted for you."--rdavis 15:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Rob wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:02 AM

thank you Tom! As you may have discerned, I think the comments of Teaching Mission participants is as revealing as the lessons, perhaps even more so. However, in the Nordan Symposia, they appear in a separate talkpage into which I have added your note. Tell Mark, my dad voted for him too! ;-)

Steffani wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:01 AM

How does it even make sense to ANYONE that present day mortals are going to learn the lessons of love and spiritual progress from former humans, particularly militaristic types who may still be undergoing serious remediation on mansonia one, recovering from the incalculable harm done to their fellows during their lives? From whence would any benefit be derived from seeking out those who made their careers "in the world" by practicing war and politics? These were hardly known as compassionate and caring men who put God first during their lives on Urantia...Well known, smart and (in)famous are very different qualities than those of loving the LORD with all one's heart and soul and seeking the Heavenly Kingdom to come on Urantia by elevating Father's Will to one's internal prime directive!

This israther like seeking counsel from Herod, Judas Iscariot, and Pontius Pilate...not that some imaginative "channelers" haven't engaged in that sort of nonsense...and sometimes even tried to share it here! This is very different from heatring from ascendant mortals who graduated from advanced worlds in light and life and are given the opportunity to serve as teachers to people on a disordered earlier evolution status planet like Urantia as a learning experience mutually helpful both to them and our planetary population. THEIR goal is to teach us how to LIVE the 'golden rule' in our daily lives, and facilitate processes by which we may safely attain Father/Adjuster communion, and to begin to understand, befriend, and 'socialize' with them on a increasingly cosmic and celestial level.

Gerdean wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:01 AM

We were introduced to you as an historian, Ron, so it is no surprise that you are excited to see American history make its way into the movement. No doubt much can be learned from men and women who have notably contributed to Urantia's development, and the spirit of their experience no doubt participates through their words echoing down the annals of history and through their contribution to the Evolving Supreme. But you err on a number of points, none of which I will dicker with you about except to say that your perspective does not carry any more authority than mine does.

Your friend Jonathan is not making anybody do anything. My friend Jonathan would be "turning over in his grave," as would Alan, Isaac, Jeremiah, Thea and a number of others if they found we were taking their name in vain and pissing on the revelation whose truths and principles they dedicated their lives. But it doesn't really matter about them since they are not here to witness these machinations, nor does it serve to attempt to set the No.ID and the So.ID groups against each other. No.ID has always been a progressive community and we have always cheered them on, but they are still just as human as the rest of us.

And don't feel too self-satisfied about the "UB Fundie" angle because that is simply not the case. None of us were born yesterday. After reading the UB for over four decades and now finishing up The Sherman Diaries, it is clear that the Papers were tampered with by well-meaning but self-serving mortals just as the TeaM transcripts have been tampered with by well-meaning but self-serving mortals. There is no more a pure page on this planet than there is a pure race.

Then on one hand you call for the long-timers to shape up and serve the new age, and on the other hand you tell us we understand too little to complain about the fact that we are barking up the wrong tree.

Give my regards to Ike.


Jim Cleveland wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 9:01 AM

Hi Ron,

Some New Agers say it all happened in December and we just weren't tuned in to it. We are now in another era or something.

How about enlightening us all on why the moon is still here and all the changes that weren't apparent or weren't real.

If we continue to sweep these prophecies under the rug, wait a decent interval and start up another string hoping that people will forget the folly of the last one and embrace the next one, we will be on an endless treadmill of going nowhere.

The Urantia papers are packed with facts and insights. But often the authors speculate on their own. Our critics are still pointing to the passage saying that the midwayers had nothing to do with the spiritist seances in the early part of the last century. They apply this today to Michael's teachers, though it is nonsensical to do it. Everything in the book is not holy writ. There is also speculation on the thousands of years it will take for anything to happen on Urantia, which nullifies the TM of today.

And when they say mortals don't ordinarily return to the planet of their origin, they did not take into account the interplanetary Correcting Time of today because it didn't exist. If former mortals of the planet are helpful, I have no doubt that they can become contributors to the mission. People can identify with them readily.

But a lot of people don't know what to make of Ron's material, and are less accepting of it since the December nothingness. The TM has been chopped into several pieces over the years and this seems to have been very counterproductive to me. A house divided against itself can't stand. And so we're mostly sitting on our butts and arguing.

Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 10:07 AM

The Master learned from everyone and thereby became a teacher for all. It would appear the demythologizing of "the teachers" or "celestials" is gaining ground as we slowly surrender to the truth that we have been trained as teachers whose 'authority' is measured by our love.

Jim wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM

Sounds right to me.

And ....I Like IKE too. How low his party has sunk, to fall under the command of the military-industrial complex he warned about.

Steffani wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:19 AM

John says:

"The only true leaders in all of this are Christ Michael, Machiventa and Monjoronson." 50:5.1, 50:5.11,50:1.4

Well, IF 'Monjoronson' is actually an acceptable and usable appellation for the Avonal Son whom Christ Michael has assigned to the first Magisterial Son he sends us to enliven the FIFTH Dispensation... You got THAT right! (Hey Mon...izzy that one God's Son OR Ron's son? ;-)

Passing generations of short-lived humans have little to do with determining planetary dispensations or characteriatic epochs of mortal progression...

Although any individual with steadfast Godly intention can actually attain light and life potentials and/or fusion with their Divine Indweller NOW! 20:3.1, 20:3.4

And I sincerely hope you understand and can accept Gerdean's clear exposition of how she sees all this as a completely valid perspective...her own...whether or not you agree with any or all of it!

Due to your strong tendency to want pat black or white answers, to label people and things to have convenient boxes and pigeonholes for them...I rather doubt it...Just maybe for once you can let go of that need?

The textual portion of the Revelation is designed to teach us about Divine Government and the coming next visitation of another Paradise Son to fulfill its premises...It is a practical infomative preparatory 'shop manual', not a set of "fetish writings" to biblify...It was given as a helpful guide to give humans a clue or two as to how certain events and situations have developed here on Urantia, and how they usually unfold on evolutionary let us know that there ARE other peopled worlds throughout the universes and we are NOT alone...We have other brothers and sisters throughout the vast starry cosmos...That ALL of it is God's Realm of which He maintains perfect cognizance of EVERYONE throughout creation...He has a Will and a Plan and everything is under His good Orderly matter how it appears to mortals. 20:5.4

Few human beings have availed themselves of this gift of revelation which has been provided for us, and the few who have tried to read it have given the material but a cursory glance rather than studied the UB with the kind of diligence that might be given a college class in order to begin to understand. Students hardly scratch the surface of any the field of knowledge those studies only begin to introduce...and only after 'graduation' does career experience begin to reveal the actualities of what was learned about but...not yet truly known. 4:5.2, 52:5.8, 51:7.5, 52:1.4, 52:2.3

God isn't 'the Author of Confusion',

...anyone who is confused and confusing may not be working towards His goals for our planet

Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:38 AM

Frankly, the words attributed to Monjoronson are incorrect. There is one leader who lives and works through each and every child willing to express the truth of his love, in any moment, any place throughout the cosmos. That an executive committee exists for planetary administrative purposes does not negate the necessity of human leadership on the ground. In the absence thereof, we have but chaos to confirm.

Gerdean wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:31 AM

It was Cathy, not Mark, that transmitted Eisenhower

Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:41 AM

The transcript reads that Kathy was the TR.

Tom Newbill wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:24 PM

Cathy was the t/r...she is listed in the header at the top....we have a Cathy and a Kathy in the was was late

Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:47 PM

The two instances where Kathy was referenced have been changed to Cathy.

Steffani wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 12:50 PM

Oh, God does INTERVENTIONS all right, John, great big major ones...Only He does then as He does all a divine and perfect way...just not as human beings think He should, or expect, want, or demand! 7:4.3-7

Once Lost by Del Parson 188:5.1-3

Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:29 PM

These are not "interventions" in the human sense but the normal provisions for growth.

Steffani wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:02 PM

I will respectfully suggest that human leadership on the ground that is properly in touch with and following true Divine Authority is expressing the will of this "one leader who lives and works through each and every child willing to express the truth of his love, in any moment, any place throughout the cosmos"...S/he will not be generating chaos, but rather will be providentially extending the Supreme potentials of Divine Order!

Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:26 PM

What else could genuine human leadership be? Of course, illusions of arbitrary power are more apt to be defined as 'leadership' in this world. Happily, such a world is disappearing, and the chaos we witness around us is ample proof of the influence of love's gravity whose Source is the leader of all remaking our world in and through each person and as well, everyone at the same time.

Steffani wrote: Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 4:19 PM

Usually, not always...It is when humans and other beings demonstrate themselves bereft of good sense that these blessedly foreseen 'interventions" become necessary...

..."the Paradise Sons act as rehabilitators of that which misguided creature will has placed in spiritual jeopardy. Whenever and wherever there occurs a delay in the functioning of the attainment plan, if rebellion, perchance, should mar or complicate this enterprise, then do the emergency provisions of the bestowal plan become active forthwith. The Paradise Sons stand pledged and ready to function as retrievers, to go into the very realms of rebellion and there restore the spiritual status of the spheres. And such a heroic service a co-ordinate Creator Son did perform on Urantia in connection with his experiential bestowal career of sovereignty acquirement."

Rob wrote:Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 4:44 PM

"Creature" in the case cited refers to restoration of a realm disordered by disloyal descending Sons. The restoration of human cultures such as we are witnessing here requires the restoration of normal human leadership that is guided by a reconstituted Planetary Government.

We do not consider mortals actually running this world. Yes, there are those that think they do and consider themselves in complete charge of all that is about them, but we would think otherwise. We consider this world, now especially under the direction, under the supervision and guidance of not only a rightful Prince, a worthy and loyal Son, but an entire administration guiding and directing the course of this planet in the context of this new beginning. You have read of the Master Seraphim and their contacts with various groups of mortals; yes, you can imagine that through them and all Father has his hand firmly upon the affairs of your world. ...Yes, there is a way, there is a procedure we follow, and yes, there are many mortals who would impose their own procedure, their own way, but let us proceed…your world is in need of correction to adjust from the ways of your own assertion, the culture of self-assertion into the culture of cooperation, partnership with God.- Tomas

Leadership is not defined by arbitrary use of power, nor a dependence upon false promises of magical cures but a willingness to share freely in the adventure of living as a mortal of the realm struggling with human dilemmas albeit illuminated by faith, a faith that is forever too deep for mere words.