Talk:2012-03-19-Monjoronson Dialogues 1
Gerdean wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 11:58 AM
Vicky, that was delightful! Thank you.
I had no trouble following the dialogues and benefited from the metaphors, but I had a problem every time the fourth dimension was mentioned. It has always been my understanding that as physical beings we live in a three dimensional world, and that the morontia or expanded world is what would be considered the fourth dimension. Is he suggesting our soul lives in the fourth dimension even here in the finite third dimension?
I love the format of one-on-one. It truly exemplifies the truth that there is no need for a middleman between us and our God ... or his agents. It seems I will be able to practice this technique myself this coming Thursday since I have invited Charles to engage with me/us on Light Line and he has agreed to accommodate. I only hope I can do half as good a job dialogueing as you have done, Vicky. Again, good job!
Gerdean --rdavis 23:56, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
dimensions
William Hays wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:21 PM
Gerdean,
I don’t know why you would take issue with the use of the construct, the fourth dimension. In elementary physics a point is one dimension. A plane, defined by three points, is the second. Space is the third dimension. And time is the fourth. As should be apparent, these four exist within and in relation to one another and we are able to experience all four independently and together.
It is my belief/understanding that the fifth dimension similarly exists within and in relation to the four we experience. But, it lies outside of these four enough to be invisible to our sight – but not unreachable through our spirit/morontia/physical overlapping characteristics as mortals on this earth. Your direct communication with our unseen friends would be ample testimony to its accessibility, even if only tangentially.
Physicists tell us there are, within their mathematical models, probably eleven dimensions (at least) which interlock and work together to create a working abstraction of what is almost entirely unseen, experienced only in four of the eleven, and certainly not well understood by many. Taking issue with one of these very abstract facets which are used to try and give us something to relate to in the explanation of reality seems a wasted effort, intellectually and emotionally.
I’m sure you would agree that a true picture of the universe is a far stranger thing than we can begin to imagine at this point in our existence.
Yours,
William
Gerdean wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:44 PM
Why I would "take issue" is for the very reason Monjoronson set forth when he said, "Your ability to openly and humbly question pre-conceived beliefs as well as discern the inconsistencies in your beliefs as they align to your actions, determines the degree of truth that unfolds." If I don't know, I should feel free to ask, which is what I did.
You see, I don't know everything, and I obviously don't know everything about dimensions. I didn't know physicists tell us there are within their mathematical models probably at least eleven dimensions to create an unseen working abstraction. That you would "take issue" with my questioning is one reason people stay in everlasting ignorance -- because they are jeered or disdained for being so ignorant as to inquire. Perhaps you did not mean to disdain my question as I addressed it to Vicky, but I didn't appreciate your pre-judgment, William. It seems you are still dragging around my earlier animosity to Monjoronson when it is fairly clear to me that I have put that behind me and am willing to forge ahead, even establishing rapport with one of his primary associates, Mighty Midwayer Charles. What are you ragging on me "taking issue" for? We should all have a right to "take issue" with anything, without somebody thinking we are just trying to be obstreporous.
Your comments now cause me to hesitate, because I know there are people on this list who disdain me for the fact of my admitted human frailty, but I will go ahead and say that I am a long-term woman in recovery (from the Lucifer legacy of "self will run riot" and the effects of the Adamic Default and the myriad social, mental and emotional retardations and aberrations, including alcoholism and drug addiction, that were spawned through no fault of our own) and in some of the recovery literature (with which we in "the Correcting Time" would all do well to familiarize ourselves), there is a well-beloved section that begins with: There is a solution, in the chapter of the same name, which states: "We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed." This is my frame of reference for dimensions.
Three-dimensional perception was dramatized by the 3-D movies. Otherwise, we are two-dimensional, simple-minded stick figures -- the spiritual dimension being the fourth dimension. Again, this is my frame of reference for dimensions. I've never studied physics. I am not a scientist. If I have to defend my frame of reference, then I will not likely be asking any questions of any teachers that any humans might hear lest I be laughed at for how ignorant I am. There was a time, William, when I didn't know which came first, the Civil War or the Revolutionary War, and I was embarassed to ask because of the way people love to gloat and lord it over others when they let their ignorance be known, but ignorance can be fixed. I am no longer cowed by ridicule (although I am still painfully aware of it). Right here on this very list I have learned to stand up and be heard, even if it is to "take issue" with that with which I don't understand. Or whom. So now you know why I did.
Gerdean
John Burchell wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 2:37 PM
Gerdean,
I appreciate your questions to Vicky, because my reference regarding the 4th dimension is very similar to yours and this whole dialog has helped me to understand things a little better - I think - :)
John Kimble wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:31 PM
For the record Gerdean, I too submitted a question to Vicky asking for clarification about this fourth dimension. I thought we lived in the Third dimension too. STuTe
Sent from my iPad
Gerdean wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:41 PM
Thank you, John and John.
Spacetime
Rob wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:58 PM
That one term has many meanings is unsurprising. Unless stipulated, the term is more often used in regard to spacetime.1 However, it would be interesting to more fully explore the meanings of the seven dimensions of personality expression.2
Rob wrote: Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:52 PM
The teacher Daniel addresses here this topic of Dimensions and infers that this aspect of dimensionality will need to await enlarged experience.
Juan Juan wrote: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 10:09 AM
I'm still wondering about our 12 physical senses.
P564:6, 49:4.3 The average special physical-sense endowment of human beings is twelve, though the special senses of the three-brained mortals are extended slightly beyond those of the one- and two-brained types; they can see and hear considerably more than the Urantia races.
Anyone have an idea? --Juan
Gerdean wrote: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 11:46 AM
... must remember, Rob, we are not intellectuals. Which, in fact, is what is so appealing about the gospel message. "The common man heard him gladly" because he did not strain the brain.
Steffani wrote: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 2:35 PM
I have always heard that 'the fourth dimension" was time...and since there was a 60's group called 'the 5th Dimension' that term was "heading" into the morontial/astral "dimension". I'm not certain how closely this term "dimensions" parallels "universe levels of reality"...or doesn't...exactly...
Our Adjusters CAN "morontiaize" our minds prior to leaving mortality...And of course the Master blazed the trail for us to follow him towards the realization of "divine humanity" and Father contact right here right NOW as we are as goals with actualizable potentials!
There's no reason to think that other orders of beings are subject to the same dimensional limitations as physical/material beings though... (110:6.14, 101:6.17, 112:1.9, 130:7.7)
Rob wrote: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 2:42 PM
Hello Gerdean-
I hope you will not avoid raising questions such as you posed above. In any event, it always good to know how terms are used in any mode of discourse.
Gratefully,
Rob
re: Is he suggesting our soul lives in the fourth dimension even here in the finite third dimension?
Gerdean wrote: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 6:30 PM
Indeed, it is indeed, Rob, good to define one's terms. William and I have engaged in private conversation to that same end and we agree that it is good to "take issue" with things with which we have questions, so as to investigate and learn, which is how it should be. What we understand about "dimensions," for example, will give a different interpretation to the hearer or reader of the words, depending on how they are perceived. So we encounter a living example of the truth that shared wisdom takes everyone's viewpoint into consideration and thus the group shares all knowledge.
Rob wrote: Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 6:44 PM
You speak well Gerdean! Many of human misunderstandings are often traced to diverse attributions of meaning all the while assuming they are identical. Examining assumptions is not something that is a source of comfort, but it is necessary for growth in understanding.
