Talk:2014-04-23-New Era Conversations 19
Rob wrote tml: Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 6:55 PM
At least the mask is off for all to see the real Dick Cheney.
(see discussion page for 2013-08-31-New Era Conversations 7 for background).
Magisterial Mission coopted by NeoCons
Rob wrote tml: Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:29pmCT
Seriously, this obvious co-option of the Magisterial Mission by the NeoCons mirrors their takeover of the Teaching Mission Archives. Same strategy, same effect; persons of conviction go underground.
Rob wrote Nordan Editorial Advisory Board members: Wed, April 23 at 8:22pmCT
Daniel's transmitting proceeds without any discussion outside his small circle of devotees. As such, it seems the increasingly desperate appeals to money, mass audiences, and strong arm politics is becoming more vivid. Please read the NEC 19 document and its discussion page then let me know what you think.
Rob wrote: Wed, April 23 at 8:31pmCT
"the Russian invasion of the Crimean peninsula?"
Daniel must not be able to read anything but commercial media. Next we will hear that the Malaysian flight was hijacked by Iranian terrorists with fake passports given that was the initial ploy.
"You see the incapable process that occurred in Syria. That situation devolved into. . . [as an aside for us, viewing this situation is far more than horrific or terrible or catastrophic;] the willful starving of a nation’s population by its leader is evil to the point of being a rebel of the universe."
Perhaps Daniel thinks fascist oligarchies fattening on genetically modified (poisoned) foods is good.
Gerdean wrote on tml: Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 9:29 PM
April 24, 2014
Mer wrote: April 24, 2014 at 12:47pm
As you know, I believe all transmissions are potentially subject to human error. When I reflect on Jesus' decision to avoid entangling his ministry in politics during his sojourn on the planet, it makes me doubt the credibility of transmissions where celestials on high are engaging in political commentary. It's not that I don't think the angels and Melchizedeks have an opinion about global events, but rather that it seems more likely they will advise us that we must solve these knotty problems ourselves.
Rob wrote: April 24, 2014 at 2:52pm
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! Political commentary is a part of political thought, the social dimension of spiritual thought. Michael/Jesus represents well the attitude of the Father standing aloof from political, social, and economic disputes while teaching how to perfect the inner spiritual life. Avonal Sons will differ in as much as they represent the Son whose responsibility is the governance of the group. Regardless, as he would be building upon the foundation of Michael's mission, it is hard to imagine a divine being upholding social practices built on deception.
Marty Greenhut wrote on tml: Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:14 pm
Evidence for Russian Involvement in East Ukraine Based on Shoddy Journalism Robert Parry: The Obama administration and Kiev government claimed that Russian soldiers were present at the building occupations, yet it turns out that this assertion was based on photos the U.S. government provided to NYTimes and that the newspaper since has had to retract
Rob wrote: April 24, 2014 at 3:05pm'
Thank you for sharing evidence of misinformation used by those dependent upon deception to advance failed social programs predicated upon the illusion of isolation.
April 25, 2014
Byron Belitsos wrote:On Apr 25, 2014, at 11:48 PM
I agree with Rob about this distinction, as the MM is indeed pointed toward the social and political dimensions as well as spiritual.
However, Rob, I don't quite get your point about appeals to money, masses, etc. (See 1% & fame) Don't see anything different than the usual here.
But I do think the equation of Putin and Hitler is way off. And Putin is not the only aggressor; we now know that the West spent billions covertly to disrupt the existing regime in Kiev, and ironically, the current Kiev government has fascist tendencies and even has open Nazis in its supporters. Putin has become aggressive in part BECAUSE of this pro-Hitler element the fomented a coup against the elected government.
That's my 2 cents, Byron
PS In connection with my conference out here in mid-June, I got in touch with Jeff Cutler and Liz Engstrom Cratty who were mentioned in NEC 18 for their work of bringing the SSDT model to University of Oregon. They agreed to drive south and speak on the subject at our conference and I am thrilled about that. Have a look at the current schedule which is shaping up quite well: https://evolving-souls.org/conference-schedule/
April 26, 2014
Rob wrote: On Apr 26, 2014, at 1:18 PM
I know you agree about the material, economic, and political nature of the Magisterial Mission building upon the foundation of Michael's bestowal whose most poignant social policy may be expressed in the statement, inasmuch as you do to the least of my children, you do to me. (155:3.4)
This discussion reminds me of how the great test of idealism is seen in an advanced society maintaining military preparedness which renders it secure from all attack by its warloving neighbors without yielding to the temptation to employ this military strength in offensive operations against other peoples for purposes of selfish gain or national aggrandizement. (71:4.17)That persons cannot see the desperation of a bankrupt civilization represented by United States' arbitrary enforcement of an increasingly dubious USDollar currency used for purely private gain is shocking to me.
This Daniel Raphael forum attributed to our Magisterial Son indulges in a display of ignorance that is reminiscent of the Rush Limbaugh show. This makes it necessary for me as one who is hosting these records for public examination to offer alternative opinions in the record's discussion page as the only way to show that all of these human documents do not enjoy the affirmation of those who read them. Instead they may be merely evidence of something greater, irreducible to the methods of indirection inherent in second hand approaches to divinity so often appropriated by mortals for material gain.
Rick Voss wrote: On Apr 26, 2014, at 10:22 pmPT
Greetings Rob, and fellow advisory friends and lovers,
I would like to weigh in at this time as per your request. Since I am on the advisory board, it’s about time I earn my keep.
First off I would have to confess that I am a taint biased since I count Daniel as a personal friend whom I love as I do you and others on this board. But that is not to say I would be inclined to be tagged as a “personal devotee.” Lover and supporter yes, but devotee... no way mon.
I am a devotee to the Father within perhaps, but prefer to stand shoulder to shoulder with my fellows, seen and unseen.
I’m in agreement with you Rob that these communications from Charles stand a bit outside the known protocol of our celestial mentors. That coupled with the fact that Daniel’s transmissions have broken our comfort boundaries in the past leaves one somewhat skeptical does it not? What I have taken notice of is that the entity we know as Charles has consistently shown a propensity to get down and dirty with us in the trenches. He does not seem to be opposed to giving his personal opinion on matters of Church and State. That coupled with the fact that I have been advised that “no one individual or group can fully comprehend the breath and scope of the Magisterial Mission at this time,” I prefer to withhold judgment as to the validity of this transmission. Personally, I find it somewhat satisfying that we have one among us now from the celestial realms that will talk turkey with us. I fully understand the wisdom in the Universe mandate to keep our instruction focused on our internal growth, but perhaps this one we know as Charles has a new set of instructions related to the Magisterial Mission. I found that his shared insights concerning worlds affairs to be more or less parallel to my own. Like Byron, I am a little befuddled, (love that word), as to what you see in this transmission that relates to “ the increasingly desperate appeals to money, mass audiences, and strong arm politics.”
Anyway, thanks for enduring my somewhat flippant response as I have been struggling with sleep deprivation for almost a week now, and, as you know, I don’t get out much.
Hope all is well with you.
Love you all,
April 27, 2014
Rob wrote:On Apr 27, 2014, at 10:54 amCT
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! To be sure, I am a devotee of faithfully hosting literature attributed to our unseen friends regardless of reservations concerning their value. It is a very human story we are weaving as we speak, and I appreciate its beauty unifying the many contrasts available for us to experience in the mortal frame.
Matters of fact occur in an arena where skepticism is helpful inasmuch as it requires all information to be well supported by evidence. In this regard, I welcome what you refer to as the "down and dirty" manner of Daniel's representation of Charles. Of course, I don't think for minute that a being of his order will be concerned with the dirt on the face of any who find themselves in error of fact. It is, after all, not mere information that is transformative, rather such details of fact meaningfully integrated in a mind infused with the value our being that is limitless.
As for what I see that "appeals to money, mass audiences, and strong arm politics" in this transcript, it is the attempt to function as trusted political commentator who could be relied upon to give the true perspective into situations on the ground much the way propaganda machines wielded by states conducting what is euphemistically called public diplomacy as a tool to embolden their delusions of national supremacy. However, this is only the latest in a number of transmissions attributed to Daniel that are indicative of a human overreaching his limited capacity to represent a knowledge that is not his own. As a result, his work is impugned by the discovery of error "on the ground".
Your comments are not flippant but an essential component of making more credible this experience of walking and working hand in hand with those who are, by their nature, unseen to material senses.
Marty Greenhut wrote on tml: Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM
Dear friends, I have been wanting to address the question of 'vetting' the TM and MM transcripts since we are publishing them and thus giving them some authoritative relevance as truth that is given from celestial teachers.
My view of the truth in these transcripts is based on their co-creative source from our celestial teachers through the minds of our T/Ring associates. It has become notable that teachers are transmitting material that already has found a place in the T/Rs mind; in the language of its expression and in the perspective and meaning behind the teaching. It seems to be similar to the FER revelation which has been found to quote mortal writings, presenting them in a new context of the revelation of higher meanings. New material, beyond the ken of mortal minds is also given in the FER, however, I have not yet seen this in the TM and MM transcripts (other than Ron Besser's) aside from the introduction of celestial personalities who have come here to help us.
The mortal minds which provide our teachers and ministers their language and mindal perspectives are all that our teachers have to use as the resource, the very level of cosmic understanding which they can present in their curriculum. Over the years, some teachers have adopted specific T/Rs as their mouthpieces and have developed curricula that can be well expressed through those minds. It has also happened that the mind of the T/Ring personality gets expressed beyond the intended meanings of the teacher which sometimes becomes discernible.
As publishers of these transcripts, these revelatory messages and teachings, it is our responsibility to simply allow each reader to discern for themselves the truth or untruth expressed in each one of them.
I have only refused to send one transcript to my Harp of God Bulletins list though others, such as this one from Teacher Charles, through Daniel, seems to be off-the-wall. When a portion of a transcript seems to be in error, other aspects of the same transcript ring true, even seem to have importance. It is therefore my policy to leave the discernment of truth entirely up to the readers (of which I am one.)
The FER as well as the Teaching Mission of Urantia and the 'Greater teaching Mission' of our entire world have been designed to reach the mindal perspectives that have evolved here. The revelation and teaching curricula must find understanding minds and seeking students. We are newborn babes with only the experience of life in Mother's womb and still are strained by the light of truth as a newborn baby's eyes are blinded by the light of day.
Let us carry on as best as we can under all the challenging circumstances that we face.
In Father's love and in gratitude, Marty
Rob wrote on tml: Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 4:26 pcCT
I appreciate very much your trust in the priority of individual discernment by those who may chance upon material associated with the Teaching Mission or Magisterial Mission. Such an 'individual' however, only lives within a larger social arena where thought itself is shaped by forces well outside the range of the conscious mind. As such, it is very important that this material benefit from the collection of personal opinions that offers evidence of careful consideration by each participant. For this reason, I endeavor to gather such opinions when the material offered begs for further inquiry. When featured in any 'lessons' discussion page, it gives unsuspecting persons an opportunity to witness the level of discernment exercised by those who may be considered 'readers' of this material.
Byron wrote: Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 10:40 pmPT
I also want to add that Daniel's materials are being discussed by some outside of his circle. Healing a Broken World has a small following—it sold about 200 copies and got some media attention too (a GAIAM TV interview). Liz Cratty and Jeff Culter have a significant curriculum project at the U of Oregon, and Marty Risacher, Rosemarie Stallworth, and I are working on a new edition and have had numerous discussions about how to proceed. I think social sustainability as a movement has a big future if we can wrestle up a better edition, which is our intention—provided we can also wrestle up a marketing budget. This new edition will be out in about 8 months from now, and my sense is that we (Marty, Rosemarie, and I) will circulate with the book and speak in venues around the country. The connection with Cratty and Cutler will also blossom as well, I expect. They will give a talk at my conference in June and will train the participants in how to create an SSDT. Soon this will grow beyond the benign cult around Daniel in to something with a life of its own, I believe. Byron
Dave wrote:Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 11:40 pmET
While I believe Daniel is sincere in what he is trying to do, my concern is (I believe that similarly to thought adjusters being limited in what they can convey to us human types by the extent of information the individual human already has) that Charles understanding / and ability to convey information about Ukraine/Syria, (for example) may be limited by the framework of knowledge Daniel has in his own consciousness (such as constrained by commercial/corporate/U.S. based news sources alone) or, that Daniel's human understanding/interpretation of whatever he may be hearing from Charles could be unduly influenced by same.
Sorry for that one long run-on sentence, but that form best captures my thought on the matter.
April 28, 2014
Rick wrote: Mon, April 28, 2014 at 2:07pmPT
Greetings Rob, thanks for expanding on your thoughts and concerns surrounding our brother Daniel. Your observations most certainly deserve merit considering the world we live in and the deception and lies we must sort thru daily. Just before this resent transcript came thru Daniel, I was reading a news article about Putin and could not help but notice that this man was suffering from some sort of mental imbalance that I did not fully understand. When Charles offered his insight as to what this man was lacking made perfect sense to me. I do have a soft spot in my heart for those that cut thru all the BS and offer some clarity to a situation such as Charles did for me here.
I would like to share a short story that comes to mind from a past transcript from Daniel. It was around IC05 that Daniel produced a transmission that spoke of a imminent catastrophe that would result in a severe economic crises for the region it occurred in. There where no specifics given but Daniel personally felt this was the big one and we should prepare for a major economic collapse. Well, no such world wide disruption took place but two events did occur around this time that I took notice off. One was a major earthquake in China and the second was the Northern California fires set off by heat lighting that raged on for months creating such a large economic burden on the region that California has yet to recover from it.
I recall when I was driving back thru Northern California from the conference in LA I saw a headline in the local newspaper at the motel I was checking into for the night that read, “Major Economic Burden for California”, or something similar to that. This brought to mind Daniels transmission and wondered if this was what the transcript was speaking off. A short time later I asked Machiventa about why we where given warnings of this nature and to what purpose did they serve. Machiventa replied by asking me if any of us gathered and prayed for a better outcome concerning the warning. When I replied no, not that I new off he implied that this warning was given to us to see what we would do when given an advanced warning of this nature. I’ll be happy to send you the transcript if you don’t already have it. Donna D’Ingillo was the T/R at the time.
The point I’m getting at here is perhaps this is another one of those situations where the information is being offered to get a feel for what our freewill reaction will be to what is being offered. Just a thought I wanted to put out there.
Take care, Rick
Rob wrote: Mon, April 28, 2014 at 8:52pmCT
Thank you for reminding everyone of the benefits accruing from the work of Origin Press notwithstanding any questions arising from the problems with individual authors who do not understand well the value of their editors nor the mechanisms whereby books are brought to a larger audience.
Rob wrote: Mon, April 28, 2014 at 8:55pmCT
Hello Dave -
Thanks for taking precious time to share your thoughts on this matter. Notwithstanding any appearance of run-on sentences, your thought is well understood.
Rob wrote: Mon, April 28, 2014 at 9:06 pmCT
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!
One thing we can be sure of is that when we read in one country an assessment of another country's head of state, it will say more about the relations between those countries than any individuals in them.
Daniel's predictions of catastrophism echo the thoughts of others who have been citing imminent disaster since the 60's with Rachel Carson's book Silent Spring that echo less prominent expressions preceding her. As for predictions in general, one of more lucid thoughts on the topic is from Malvantra transmitted by Rick Giles.
This activity that appears as prophecy is not the prediction of events to come but more correctly a demonstration of what can manifest through yourselves and a rally call to your fellows that they likewise can undertake the same and thereby accomplish the hoped-for conditions. Therefore, it is not the best orientation to speak of events as impinging upon you, something to be waited for. Instead, these apparently prophetic changes are instigated within you and will make their outworking obvious. So, when you do attempt to let it be known the kingdom of heaven is at hand, as your Master said 2000 years ago, underline the very principle that he taught, that the kingdom of heaven is within, that the expression of the great changes to come emerges from the well of deep relationship you have with the Father. That is all that is needed, that this be recognized. Your fellows may not seek the inner dialogue and not recognize this potential. It may appear as an event that will rise up and overcome them, but it is an event that will rise up and come from them. - Malvantra
Your concluding thoughts I think are germane to all manner of spiritual contacts developed in the recent history of our world in anticipation of eventual renewal of normal relations between this world and its sister spheres. It is most vivid in the history of the TM/MM with its repeated references to materialization testing the degree of maturity in those who would endeavor to welcome such a prospect.
Rickwrote: Mon, April 28, 2014 at 9:52 pmPT
And I want to thank you for engaging us, your loyal advisory board, into this stimulating discussion where we can freely share our thoughts and insights for the benefit of all.
It is a pleasure to rub elbows with my fellow scholars in this magnificent correcting time. I am honored to have the opportunity to sojourn together with you at this moment in time on this glorious path to Paradise full of untold challenges and sublime uncertainty.
You all rock, Rick
April 29, 2014
Rob wrote: Tues, April 29, 2014 at 5:18amCT
It is a joy to share in the adventure of discerning truth unfolding in any moment with others. Thank you for giving of yourself in the exercise.