1993-09-05-Can't Grow Without Growing Pains

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Topic: Can't Grow Without Growing Pains

Group: Unknown


Teacher: Iruka

TR: Unknown



Iruka: The love of God surrounds you, the light of God enfolds you, the power of God protects you, wherever you are He is. Good afternoon, I am Iruka, I am your friend and guide.

I am delighted to be back with you after all these weeks. I have missed you, I have missed these sessions where we can freely discuss, have questions, and grow. I have, however, visited you occasionally during the weeks and I have been aware of your growth. You have taken large steps. You are growing closer to the Father every day. It is true that you have problems, but you seem to be handling them better. You are approaching them with love, you are approaching them with confidence. You are aware that the Father is trying to teach you. You know you cannot grow without pain or problems. Having an easy life would not cause you to desire the Father, and so problems are put in your pathway. It is very mature to approach the problem with the question, what can I learn, what does the Father wish to teach me? And embrace the problem with love, knowing that when it is through, you will have grown from it. Then you may get the same problem again, and attack it differently. This time growing in another way.


Problems, Growth

Have you come to the realization that your whole life will be a series of problems and growths. You will not be allowed to just sit back and have it easy. I do not wish to discourage you but this is the way it will be for all of eternity. The more you realize that your loving Father wishes you to grow towards Him, the easier these problems will be and the faster you will progress through them. Being conscious is one thing that I have talked to you a lot about, so if you are conscious about the problem, you will find a solution much faster. I know that everyone of you is in your own set of problems. Look at the problem, try to decide what Father wants to teach you and move forward. Learn it, develop the skill He wants you to, and if you feel you have not done well, don't feel like you have failed. Know that you have learned something and that you will get another chance, and you will do better. Think of the small child, the baby learning to walk. The first step or two, he falls, he gets up and he takes maybe three steps, and he falls, and he gets up and maybe takes four or five steps. That is the way it is with our lessons. We get better and better and better. Do not be worried about the falls, they are discouraging. Don't think of yourself as a failure, just think I will do better next time. And now I will accept questions.


Mansion Worlds

D1: Can you tell us what life is like in our next lifetime, like when we die on earth, but what our life will be like on the next planet.

Iruka: Hello, it is nice to see you again and yes, I can tell you a few things. One is that you will pick up where you left off in your growth, in your learning. If you learned to forgive just a little here on earth, you will continue with that lesson on the other side. If you had started to grow a great faith on this side, you will finish off the job on the other side. Your path throughout eternity will be one series of growth after the other. Does this answer what your question is?

D1: Probably only about 50%. What is like the culture, like when I am born do I have like a babies mind or do I have a mind that I left off with, or do I develop, or learn what I learned before, after I have grown a little on that planet, or do I know right off..

Iruka: I understand, I have not been answering your question. You will of course keep all the good things, all the good memories. You have your personality, but you will have a better brain than you have on this planet. The brain you have on this planet serves this planet and it will be expanded and you will have more understanding on the other side. So you will have your good memories, you will have a better brain, you will remember a lot. You will remember people, you will remember your friends, who your parents were, who your children are, whatever happens to you on this planet. You will be an adult.

D1: So in other words I will have like a children's body when I am young but I will have an adult mind when I am on the planet, on the next one....

Iruka: Let me back up. I am speaking in terms of if you died when you were an old man. Maybe you are thinking of if you died when you were a child. Children have a chance to grow up, but being an adult...it is not like aging here. If you were an adult when you died, you are an adult on the other side. If you are a child, then you will be a child with a much broader mind and understanding and be allowed to grow into an adult. Physically the size is not a lot different. You are imagining your physical body..am I right?

D1: Well sort of, I mean what I am trying to say is I am born on the next planet and on that planet I have a child's body, right?

Iruka: Not if you died on this side as an adult. You will have an adult's body. It is not like a birth process here on Urantia. It is not a birthing process as such. It is more like an assembly. You are assembled is the best word I can think of. You are assembled, given your brain, or your mind. A bigger brain and then you experience an awareness that you exist and that things exist around you, much like an awakening, but not a birth process. Does this help?

D1: yes, except for how do you appear on the planet? How do you appear on there? Does the Lord just send you down with your brain from the sky?

Iruka: There are beings who assemble all your memory, who you are and give you a morontia body. It is a big area where several become conscious at the same time and are closely watched and cared for by Morontia beings. It is much like opening your eyes after you have fallen asleep, and it takes a while to figure out where you are and what is happening. That is probably the best analogy I can come up with. You are not alone and there is nothing to fear, but you look around and discover where you are and who is around you. Does this help?

D1: Yes.

Iruka: Did you have further questions? [No]


D1: I was saving one in reserve. Since nobody is going to take it. Its not...my question isn't really like...well it is about this planet. In the past, were there such things as like Pegasus, or unicorns, and that half-horse half-human thing. Were there such things as those actually, or are those just mythology that is made up...

Iruka: Those are Morontia beings. They were known about back in the schools when there were the schools here on the planet. They have gotten woven in to mythology. They were not creatures here on the planet, like a horse, or like a dog. But they are from the Morontia worlds. So when you say are they real, they are real, and they have gotten changed in mythology stories down through the ages. Does this explain? [yes, very well]

Thought Adjusters, Attunement

L1: Hi Iruka, its good to be with you again. I have a question concerning our thought adjusters. Being that we are, we have within us a part of the divine, of God, that is ever a part of who we are. Then it must seem to me, it must seem that we should be able to access that at any time and even though there are problems in our lives, that confuse us and keep our focus away from that divine, that it must be that at any given moment, any given moment, that we could tap into that and live from that place completely. Is this true?

Iruka: Yes, absolutely. That is why I have from the first day encouraged everyone to spend time with the Father. Sense His presence, know what that feels like, recognize His voice so that exactly what you can do. It is difficult to quiet the mind in this life, in this culture of noise, and music and radios, and earphones. But that is exactly what I am trying to focus, to help you learn how to do it. I can tell you how to practice, you have to learn it. I cannot teach you what the voice of God will sound like to you. That is something you have to learn, but absolutely, absolutely being in a situation where you can pause, tune into the Father and know how to act, know what to do, know how to respond, know how to show love. Yes, absolutely.

L1: If the divine is part of our very being and we are never separated from it, then as I sit here now, I have within me all of that, all that I need. And if I have all that I need, then all that stands between me in that state and the times that I am confused and my focus is shattered, is just the realization that I am there. I am already there, it is not someplace to arrive at if I keep trying. The fact is that I am there now, even though it is clouded. Is this true?

Iruka: Yes, absolutely.

L1: I was interested in what you had to say about our problems because I have had some things come up to challenge my faith. I am trying very hard to seek through them in a way that makes me identify more closely with my divine nature and see that as my first and primary nature and that everything else that happens around me are of lesser consequences. I have been trying very hard to do this and it is like...to try but to not try so hard to get in your own way and its been interesting because I know that the divine is within me at all moments and yet to be with that in a way that influences my every thought and action to know that I am there now, not someday if I try real hard or I perfect my quiet time, but I am already there. It has been a very challenging thing for me to work on. I feel like its opened up areas that are for me so broad, and so wide, and so vast to be able to step into that awareness and know that I don't have to identify with all of my problems, they can be secondary to what I am. They are not central to what I am.

Iruka: Yes, absolutely. Don't be discouraged, this will take a long time. You will spend the rest of your life fine tuning your communications, knowing who you are and what will fall away, and who you can become. It is not easy, it is work, but I wish to encourage you on your walk.

L1: Thank you, it has become my very heart's desire to be the kind of person that I envision myself to be. To be so much more than I am. I feel that God has a vision and image for me to grow into and I am stretching myself as hard as I can towards that vision.

Iruka: And you will get there, maybe as not as fast as you want to get there, but you will get there. Don't be impatient with yourself, Father is not impatient with you, don't feel condemned because you are not moving as fast as you want to move. Just know that you are going to move there, up a step every day and you will get closer and closer. As you get to the image you have, you will get a new image and see a new vision.

L1: That is very encouraging.

Iruka: So just take a step every day, take a step, and don't be discouraged. There is no condemnation, there is no discouragement on our side. We are, on this side, thrilled that you and everyone else wishes to grow, and wishes to make progress. Sometimes your image and your goals may be out of reach for now. Sometimes you set your standards as being too high, and I don't want to discourage setting high standards, but then when you fall short, the devastation and the depression is not something that needs to happen. Don't become so discouraged that you feel like failures, because you are not.

L1: I can see so clearly that image, that idea of who I can become, who I can transform into. I can see it so clearly, and I think that since I can see it so clearly, it must be so close.

Iruka: Do not make that assumption, but do strive and don't allow yourself to be depressed and to be discouraged. Know that you are making progress and just make a step or two every day. You are getting there.

L1: Thank you.

Iruka: You are welcome.

Anger, Ego

S2: Iruka, last week I ran into one of those situations that is impossible and I spent too much energy, invested too much energy in an impossible situation. I'm reviewing in my mind why I did that, where I missed the clues. But the one thing that puzzles me the most is that I walked in 90 percent expecting not to get the job, not to get the contract, and I wanted to bow out elegantly. I wanted to have that peace inside of me, that I could walk away from this table with 7 people sitting at it, with them all respecting me. It didn't happen, it didn't happen at all. Inside of me, I got this urge to beat everybody up, I got so mad. This...just reviewing this urge, this madness in..you know it is like I'm losing control. I didn't verbally beat anybody up, I didn't physically beat anybody up, I just wanted to. The first time I felt that urge was in seventh grade when a fellow jammed his pencil up the palm of my hand and I didn't do it. Second time was in eighth grade and I pulverized this fellow and I got beat up by a gang of Mexicans.

About a week later, that fellow was electrocuted and I felt bad about that ever since. The next time I can really remember feeling bad about this feeling was...I was in a water polo game and I was a goalie and this guy swam by and I just beat the hell out of him, and he turned around and he looked at me and he goes 'why did you do that?'. At that time I was thinking I was trying to protect my territory in front of the goal and get that fellow scared every time he came in to take a shot. You know, he had to deal with me, that was my thinking, but I felt bad about it and I never did that again. At this point I am struggling with how do I contain my emotions and whether that feeling of wanting to beat somebody up is part of my ego. It just seems that my ego is in the way of everything now. What are some techniques to getting rid of that?

Iruka: First let me comment on how your consciousness has grown. You are aware of the time you are spending with your anger, and that is what it is isn't it, your anger? [yes] You want to strike back because they are not doing something that you wanted them to. They are not hiring you for the contract, or using your ideas. So you want to hurt back. Is that correct, in a nutshell?

S2: I don't like to admit it, yes.

Iruka: It is very human, very human, and all of us have feelings like that. From your examples from when you were a child it is the anger coming back, or defending yourself, or the goal, someone hurts you, you want to hurt back. That is human, very human. You want to make sure they will not come back and hurt you again, and then if something happens you feel guilty. First understand that anger, and envy, jealously, they are like acid in a vessel, it will hurt you. It hurts you more than anyone else, unless of course you do physically strike back. So lets deal with that anger inside of you. If you are meditating, spending time with the Father, you get your approval, you get your love, your grace, your joy, and your peace from Father, no one else. Father always gives that to you. You don't need it from other people, you get that from Him. So if people, a group of people, a company, decide that what you are selling is not what they want can you walk away? Can you know that Father will give you the contracts where He wants you to be, and He will not let you suffer. Can you know that if something doesn't work out, there is something down the road that will work out. Is this practical in your life, to think this? Or will there still be anger?

S2: Yes, I'm not down that low. I'm not worried about future work or anything. I don't worry about that, I have too much work, that is what I am dealing with. The real lesson that I have yet to figure out from this experience is how to walk through an impossible situation elegantly and gracefully, with the Father. I feel I spoke to much out of ego in that meeting and that perhaps I should have said nothing and walked away sooner. I just..just visualizing myself doing that is also ego based and . ..

Iruka: Can you, of course yes it was ego, can you imagine what Christ Michael would have done in that situation? Can you imagine what Father would have done in that situation? Can you imagine what someone who you look up to would have done in that situation. Put someone else in that situation. Imagine how they would have handled it, or would be handling it at that very moment, and make them a model.

S2: Very tough, it is very rough. It would have been Christ being stoned, it would have been Christ being crucified, it would have been....

Iruka: And yet He was, and He went and He let it happen.

S2: That was a situation, that would have been the approach, and I defended myself and that is what was wrong.

Iruka: Well perhaps not, I chose the topic today because almost everyone of you are in situations where you feel like you are not doing well, and that you are failing. That is why I chose the topic today. The best I can do...is don't feel like you failed. Know that you handled it the best way you could at that time. Try to pick something from it that you can do better next time. One thing. Maybe even just walking into it calmly. Have you figured out what you are supposed to learn from this?

S2: I did walk in calmly, I did walk in with a very good idea of what was going to happen.

Iruka: It sounds like you would..that what happened was going to happen, that you were not really in control of the situation.

S2: Exactly.

Iruka: It sounds like a lose-lose.....

S2: Well Jesus walked away from those situations and everybody would be puzzled because they would seem like such tremendous opportunities, that Jesus would walk away. They would ask Jesus why and Jesus would say it is a lose-lose situation basically. In more elegant terms to them. The question is how to walk away elegantly, and that is what I am struggling with. If I had just stood up and walked away that would have lowered their esteem of me. If I had sat there silently and not defended myself and then just walked away that probably would have been the best. Instead I tried to argue, and argue points that were...I had the truth on my side but they weren't willing to see it and....

Iruka: Then you said, you did what you could. I do not see that as losing. You only had a few choices and they were all bad. You are looking for a way to have come out a winner and that might not have been possible at all. Accept that and walk away, put it behind you. Is that possible?

S2: Why is that so difficult?

Iruka: Because your ego is wrapped up in you. You feel personally attacked. In spite of what happened you are still getting love from the Father, you are still getting His approval, and His joy, and His peace. Can you re-focus?

S2: Oh yes, I slept after that day and the next day it seemed like a nightmare. By yesterday, Saturday, it was out of my mind. It was so hard letting loose of that, quickly. It ruined the rest of the day, Wednesday, and part of Thursday. It made me non-productive and I still couldn't get rid of it quickly. It is just a measuring technique of where I am at spiritually with my ego and that is what it is. It is a good lesson for me.

Iruka: Let me make a suggestion. The next time you are spending time with the Father, bring this to Him. Bring the situation, explain to Him you cannot get rid of it, cannot let go of it. A couple of things might happen. He might say give it to me. He might walk you through it with Christ Michael at your side, walk through the meeting. If that happens, just relax because it will end in a way that will heal, will heal you, and it won't be something that you have anticipated. You might get new insight that will leave you at peace with what happened. Does this help? Could you do that?

S2: Yes

Iruka: One way or the other, Father will take that from you and heal it, if you let Him. [thanks] You are welcome.

G3: Hello Iruka, what you were talking about, how each one of us are feeling this defeat. I was just..what has been going on with me this week and I guess for the last couple of weeks is with dealing with people..how you told us to..in certain situations where we may react for us to show love and to think about what we are doing before we respond. Seems like that has been happening to me a lot lately. On my job I work with a lot of different people, and I can see how I am changing to the point where it is kind of frustrating to me because I will catch myself...what will happen is someone will walk in and ask for something. In the past I would tell them...its like they are bothering me, why is this person...why don't they just go ahead and do it themselves. Now I find myself reacting somewhat, and then kind of catching myself before I fully either hurt that person's feelings or..this urge comes up inside me to tell this person 'I can't help you, leave me alone', or that type of thing. Then I'll catch myself and I will say 'Oh, OK, I will help you'. I find myself noticing people reactions more, where in the past I think the reason why it didn't bother me as much is because I would not even look at them when they would come in and ask for something. I would just tell them it is in such and such a place, and they would get this frustrated look on their face. Now I am beginning to actually be more aware of people's feelings and actually watch their expressions and as soon as I see an expression coming on their face like..why is she treating me like that..then I will catch myself and say 'Oh you are not showing that person love'. Plus the person is not really...they are not trying to frustrate me, they are just trying to come in and get whatever they need.

So I have caught myself several times this week, and at the end of it they always thank me 'Oh, thank you so much you are so helpful' and I feel really bad, and I think I was getting ready to be mean to that person. Another thing I've found is that it seems like..I don't know if it is God sending these certain people into my life but this week several people have come into my area...one lady came in and she was crying her eyes out, I really felt like I should try to talk to her and calm her down. Another lady came in and she was all upset, somebody had been doing things to her and she didn't know what she was going to do, and she felt like everybody in the agency were ganging up on her. The next time I saw her, things had turned around. I had talked to her and everything and realized now she is going to go on and on and on, but then I realized this is somebody who really needs somebody to talk to. I caught myself and I listened to her and I think that helped her a lot. The other lady, she just needed to release her frustrations, she was upset because somebody had snapped at her and said some mean things to her so I talked to her. In the past is has been like I would be sympathetic to someone who had a problem, but I wouldn't be as totally aware of trying to understand their feelings and why the situation occurred and how I might be able to help. I guess I wanted to make a comment, because of the fact that I have been coming to the Urantia group, and praying, because of you being aware of how I am effecting other people by what I do, that is really beginning to help. It is kind of frustrating, sometimes, because I get mad at myself after the fact because I think 'I almost could have hurt somebody's feelings'. I'm just thankful that I can feel myself growing, and I can see where I have developed since the first time I started coming to these Urantia group sessions. I guess that is just a comment I wanted to make. If you have any advice, or any comments you would like to make about what I said, feel free.

Iruka: I am happy to hear of a success. You have been having successes. That is always wonderful. You have come into a new consciousness, are you aware of that? You are aware of people and their needs, more than you were ever before. That is one way in this busy, busy world of showing love, and that is to listen. That is wonderful, but do not beat yourself up for what you thought. We can think things, change our thoughts, and then change our actions, and that is what you are doing. You are doing that, exactly. Right.

G3: The other thing is...on I guess a more negative side..is that it seems like I notice things about people that I never noticed before. It seems like I can see through to the real person sometimes, and it bothers me because even though I know I have a long way to grow, I can see certain people who are very critical of other people, really frustrates me. People who will criticize every person, every thing. It seems like they can't get along with anyone. That kind of frustrates me and makes me want to tell them not to...can't you see that there is some good in that person..or is it everybody that you come in contact with why are you critical of. There are certain people it is like maybe there is one or two people maybe out of maybe a hundred people that they seem to get along with. It makes me think, this is like I look at that person and say, well that is the person, that is them. They are ego tripping or whatever, because they think they are better than everybody, and that really bothers me. It seems like I have been able to see the real person in people a lot sooner than I was able to before. I feel like...I don't know if that is ego on my part too, but I haven't really approached that, I left it alone for a while. Then later on being around that person they will say 'I shouldn't have said that about that person, that wasn't nice was it' and that will give me the opportunity to say 'yeah, that wasn't very nice you know' It is just..I just notice everything a lot more than I used to, in people. Why they say the things they say, and do the things that they do. Somebody that is very critical all the time really bothers me.

Iruka: In your growth you have learned the importance of being positive and surrounding yourself with love and joy and peace. When you encounter these people know that they are in pain, terrible pain. So they talk negatively, it reflects the pain inside of them. So maybe this will help you in your sensitivity, that they do not feel better than everyone else. If any thing they feel worse, and they hurt. Maybe that will help you love them a little bit easier.

G3: OK, that is a better way of looking at the situation. That helps, thanks.

Iruka: Your welcome, and thank you for sharing.

G2: Hello Iruka, I noticed you were crying there, the T/R was crying.

Iruka: There is a lot of emotion in the room.

G2: I have flash points too where I go off. And then usually a little bit after the fact I feel guilty. I was wondering, these times when I am going off...I can feel the emotion, sometimes I know...is Cerion around me a lot of those times. Should I make a specific case..?

Iruka: He is with you almost all the time. Of course he has other work and things to do but while you are awake he is usually with you or close by. Our other assignments or tasks are usually done while you are asleep or if we have to be gone we usually will let you know. So he is probably with you most of the time. Does this help?

G2: Yes, it does. I was trying to learn how to deal with a lot of my anger. In my quiet time I asked the Lord to help me deal with my anger. It seemed to be kind of like a storm because I am usually very mellow all of the time. When it hits it hits whoever is the burden of this anger out of the blue and all of a sudden it comes down again. I notice a lot of times when I get angry in a certain situation, that I can feel, not disappointment but more...soothing, a calming sort of sensation that is trying to get in through my cloud of anger in my head. I don't know if you really understand why we get so angry, but when there is so much negative feelings coming out of me, how is it possible for me to feel that he is trying to help me?

Iruka: Because you have been spending time with the Father in meditation, you have grown more and more sensitive. I think that this peaceful calm feeling is coming from the Father, through your thought adjuster, because you are more in tune with Him than you were six months ago, three months ago, a month ago. You are growing, you are getting closer and closer. So you feel things that you may not have felt a year ago, or even a month ago. Does this help?

G2: Yes it does. I have also noticed that after every time I go off, I seem to have a period where I evaluate all different things that could happen. As bad as they are, they always seem to...that something could have happened and the way I talked or one of my actions make things a lot worse. I sometimes feel that the next time something happens I can take that into account. It seems kind of strange it is almost like you are re-playing the whole scenario in your head with different outcomes. It just seems like the next time I go off is not as intense, it is not as personal, but there are different reasons that made me get angry. It seems frustrating dealing with all these different situations.

Iruka: You have grown more conscious, more and more and more. You will be more and more aware of what it is that is triggering this anger. And the more aware of it, the more you can figure out how to defuse it or stop it or channel it into something else. You are growing, it is going to take awhile. Think of all the years you have been this way. Now think that it might take that same number to totally eradicate what you have been doing say maybe as a child. So know that it will get better, but don't expect it to get better overnight. Don't be discouraged the same . ..my same lesson today...don't be discouraged. It is getting better. You will handle it better each time and yes your thought adjuster is working with you to make you aware, to show you other alternatives. So maybe in another 20 years you will have this licked. Don't beat yourself up about it.

G2: Twenty years?

Iruka: It will not happen overnight and don't become discouraged.

L1: Iruka, I'm wondering the status, the possible status, of myself and a teacher.

Iruka: You have been assigned a teacher. I don't wish to say the name or even if the teacher is male or female. Try to see, to make contact yourself, but don't get discouraged. If you cannot I will help you, but it would give you so much confidence if you could find these things out yourself. [yes I certainly think so] But after a short period of time, if you become frustrated, I will certainly help.


L1: Thank you. I also had a quick question. Years ago I used to work a lot with my dreams and the subconscious, and receiving inspiration, and guidance, and visions as to how to proceed in matters of spiritual growth. I don't see that sort of encouragement anywhere in any of the Urantia information. When I was involved in that it was very, very helpful to me and I am thinking of once again picking that up. I thought I would get your input on that.

Iruka: There is a place in the Urantia book that talks about dreams. They can be very helpful, however, they can also be very confusing and your dreams can just be a combination of what happened to you that day with people drifting in and out. It is hard to tell what is valid and what isn't valid. So that is not encouraged very much. If you have a dream that you can remember very, very well and it seems to be pointing to a situation that could help, then go ahead with that and try it, but dreams can be just very confusing and not have any real message. When you make contact with your teacher, your teacher can give you a lot of insight and can help you grow. So I will leave that up to you, and your thought adjuster, and your teacher. [thank you]

G3: Iruka, I had a quick comment on a positive note for G2. Being that oftentimes...his comments about his temper...not often but every now and then, I am the victim I guess you would say of one of his outbreaks. Recently he had an outbreak that was so intense...I wasn't even in the same room with him, he was downstairs and he was upset about something that I hadn't done and I thought the television was on and there were people arguing on the television. I realized that it was him and he was talking to himself and just like shouting in this voice and I think 'my God, what is wrong with him?'. Anyway, when I finally realized it was him I asked him what was on his mind and he explained it to me so then I told him, I said 'well you drive your car and I'll drive mine because I don't want to be in the same car with you and I don't want to argue all the way to work'. Anyway he decided he was going to wait for me and we would drive to work in the same car and I was really wondering how this trip was going to end. Was I going to end up asking him to let me off and I would catch the bus? Amazingly enough as a testament to his growth, he calmed down and we didn't argue the whole time going to work and I can truly say that this a new man. He, in the past, had a tendency to pout, sometimes he will pout all the way from one area..until we get from point A to point B. So I can say...I can really say that he is really growing, because of his time with the Father, prayer, meditation, and time with his teacher. This has really helped because I was really pleased to see that he had composed himself, calmed down, and we were able to drive to work and not even reflect upon the argument that we had earlier. So I just wanted to let you know, and also encourage him.

Iruka: That is wonderful to hear, thank you.


S2: Iruka, I have been working on these computer networks and have a proposal that I've drafted which hopefully would build a very decentralized organization with very decentralized funding. I am wondering what the next step with the proposal is. The goal is to encourage everyone to get on their computers and network using them. To access transcripts, to get a newsletter going electronically, to build a database of people and talents, and hold conversations. The agenda that I have proposed for it is a core group of people that seem to have a vested interest in this. I am trying to pick out who they are and run the proposal by them and come to a consensus and then release it to the general Urantia community, just xerox copies. Just pass it around for a comment period. Then come back and see if an organization grows out of that. Is...and you can scan my mind if you want on this...

Iruka: Have you contacted certain individual individuals in the Wood's Cross group who wish to do the same thing? [yes] And did they give you other contact people, so you have a list of who you need to get together with?

S2: They were fairly, the Woods Cross people....are you talking about TB? [yes and there might be someone else too] I talked to TB and his sons, I talked to MM on the Internet and he gave me a list of people, I also have the list of people that S1 met in Montreal, that attended the breakout session on that very topic. I was going to send it to them.

Iruka: That sounds like a good beginning, yes. [thanks]


G2: Hello Iruka, I had a question in my mind but I just lost it. I have switched from trying to type all my information down from my teacher to go to just recording it on a tape recorder and we seem to be talking better. I was wondering with my healing . ..with the life carrier that's working with me..I haven't, other than G3, there has not really any person that I have had opportunity to help. I know my father has problems with palsy in his hand and he had hinted that...I'd approached him once about helping him. Recently he has been hinting in private about how it is beginning to hurt him a lot more. Is there any way that you can know his feelings on this, or is this something that he will approach me for in the future to help him. When the time comes that he does ask me, if he does, what do I need to do right now to be ready for that time.

Iruka: As far as being ready, you are. There is nothing more to do. You do need, whoever you pray over, you need their permission and know that they believe in a creator who can and is willing to heal them. The person themselves, it will be more effective if they believed that it is happening, it can happen, and that it will happen. Other than directly asking your father how he feels about it, you can't know. What he might have said weeks or months or years ago, he might feel differently. People change, people change their attitudes, and their minds. So other than just directly asking him, I don't think you can know. Does this help?

G3: Yes it does. So I guess what you are saying is that I can't help them with just my faith. They must have faith to....

Iruka: Yes, yes, they have to know or believe that God would and will help them.

G3: Could their faith be there, but not believe that I could help them, with God using me as a tool? How can I resolve that if that is the case.

Iruka: You may not be able to. If they don't think that God will use you as a tool, that may block the healing. Certainly if he will let you, or someone will let you try, try. You just never know how God will work. Take that opportunity. There are some limitations there, but certainly it is worth a try. [thank you]


It appears that we are out of questions for this afternoon. I wish again to encourage you and don't let yourself get down or depressed, or think that you are failing. Because you are not. When you have the whole eternity in mind, this is but a second, this is but a lesson at the very beginning. Think of an eternity with the Father and this is a drop in the bucket, a drop in the ocean. It will get better, it will get easier. Do not condemn yourself because the Father doesn't. Good afternoon.

Group: Good afternoon.