1996-12-28-Agondonter Status Requires Faith, Trust, Judgement

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Topic: Agondonter Status Requires Faith

Group: Pittsburgh TeaM


Teacher: Bertrand & Tomas

TR: Gerdean



BERTRAND: Children, I greet you on behalf of the Teaching Corps under Melchizedek and for Michael and his creation - all of his far-flung creation of Nebadon - for our work with you also affects and touches a wide range of observers and learners. The experience that we gather here with you is also taken and taught to others, who will serve on other realms, other worlds salvaged from quarantine.



The presence of the archangel circuit on Urantia is like a large radio broadcast, and as we feed into it our experiences with you, your local universe is known throughout the superuniverse. I tell you this not for your self-consciousness, but to raise you up and out of your simple conclave of loyal friendship which meets regularly, to develop a trust in one another in and through the help of these supernal helpers, for as you learn to trust, as you begin to comprehend our purpose, then your efforts reflect our growth - and the entire universe rejoices.

We therefore are highly appreciative of your involvement, your willingness to expose yourselves to each other and to us. Your motives are our focal point and as you all readily well know, we are not here to judge. The truth is that we supernals understand that concept far more clearly than you do, for we have learned to relinquish judgment, and so we do not judge your growth, but rather honor your light and your intentions to foster and serve the God of all creation, the First Source and Center.

You who fall under the loving care of the Creator Son, Jesus of Nazareth, we observe your gatherings, your developing fraternity with more than idle curiosity, for you reflect what true growth entails. You are examples of why we are engaged upon Correcting Time, and the work that you do in and for yourselves in the development of your own God-consciousness, personality motivation and spirit intent is that which will encourage and stimulate further growth in others.

And so for all of your finite interpretations of reality, we admire the courage that it takes for you to step out in faith and voice your humanness, your agondonter status. (Pause)


Leah: Who is speaking?

Gerdean: Not Tomas.

BERTRAND: Bertrand.

Elizabeth: Well, you were talking about "agondonter status" and that was so interesting.

BERTRAND: Let me, Bertrand, conclude my remarks, for I am not here today to teach or to discourse, but to give you an understanding of how it is that we perceive your growth and how we appreciate your efforts to evolve your spirit consciousness, how we respect your desire to comprehend character as you deem it desirable to emulate in your life - that which Michael emulated in his human life. That is all.

TOMAS: I am Tomas. I am glad to be with you. I am glad that you also enjoyed the visit by my brother, co-teacher Bertrand, who is experiencing a day in the life with us.

You will forgive my more informal approach, for we know each other. I will tell you that when the visitors hover over your arena in observation of your many discourses and fragmented conversations, they and I am challenged often to determine truly where you are in your growth that we may then address your soul needs, for sometimes, dear ones, it appears that you are so replete you have no need of lessons, and sometimes you are so empty of value we could talk about nearly anything. (Group chuckle)

I had rather enjoyed the discipline of the series on the fruits of the spirit, and as I indicated in an earlier lesson, I have been formulating a format for our upcoming period of time, and to some extent it has been evolving already. We don't like to make growth changes too abruptly, you see, for it causes consternation and resistance. The easy flow is the more natural way, and so let us flow today into a conversation that will lead into a deeper understanding on your part of your personal study of character and how that understanding affects your relationship with others - immediate and in your working realm - and even into the far-flung universe.

I have invited conversation along those lines. Were you heading also in that direction, Loreenia?

Loreenia: I don't think so. I was interested in what the power energy surge Bertrand had on me; it made me very sleepy. What is his specialty? That's where my interests lie.

TOMAS: He is a teacher in the Teaching Corp.

Loreenia: Yes, but they also teach with tones and...

TOMAS: He is a male, an experienced being of authority, and you, as a sensitive, are aware of those energies and that authority. You were once also impressed with me, but you have become used to me.

Loreenia: You didn't put me to sleep, Tomas! He didn't bore me. I was literally -- not going to sleep, but -- affected in such a manner…

TOMAS: That would have to do with his message.


Elizabeth: Well, he was talking about agondonters and I got really excited because I was so amazed and so completely enthralled that we were the last of the agondonters, and I thought we should really appreciate this status which has certain . .. wonderful things about it, and our children will not have that privilege -- but they will have other great things.

TOMAS: Let me discuss that to some extent for I do not want to deprive your children of their birthright of being agondonters, for even though you will begin to perceive that you are not alone in the universe because of your association with supernal teachers, even though your faith will have had it proven to your satisfaction that the greater reality is in fact truth, you still must act and believe in faith, for even were a Melchizedek to materialize, that even requires faith.

All the way to Havona you will always be an agondonter because of your experience here in a realm which requires believing without seeing. And so, even for generations you will be agondonters, because it requires faith. Those who are born into worlds well advanced, where the temples are already constructed of morontial materials, and where midwayers are clearly part of your society, may not have the status of agondonters, but your planet does not promise to manifest these proofs of divinity in the next generation or two.

Elizabeth: I see. That's reasonable, certainly. Thank you. I'm glad I got that straightened out.

TOMAS: In your own mind you may understand the reality of divinity, but you are still an agondonter for it still requires faith.

Elizabeth: Would it be likely, then, that in several generations, that group of our grandchildren, great-great-great grandchildren, they would not be then? Is that the way it seems?

TOMAS: If we are following logic, but this is not entirely a logical situation.

Hester: This is not individual, Tomas?

TOMAS: No, it is global. As the next epochal revelation comes around - which will not be in your lifetime nor shortly thereafter - by then you may have attained, as a race of people, sufficient spirituality to have advanced out of the status of "agondonterism" but that depends upon many things and you know we are not here to predict the future, to crystal-ball gaze, or to tell you in advance what you may expect, for that is your adventure.


Elizabeth: Bertrand commented that you all have a way of not being judgmental towards us, and I guess it would be really neat if we could understand it on an intellectual level … even if we can't have actually practiced it on an emotional level. We find it so very delightful to have that trust in you that you are not judgmental.

TOMAS: I am going to present you then with some words of wisdom, and that is that emotionally you can and will transcend the habit of judgment. That is a character assignment. It is immature to carry judgment with you. It denotes a lack of trust. It colors your relationships with others. It is dishonest to yourself, for you open yourself up to reflect unreality back to you...

Leah: Could you . ..?

TOMAS: . .. and it separates you from your siblings in the spirit. Yes, Leah?

Leah: Could you elaborate on the statement you just made about dishonesty to yourself for judgment, how that would...? Could you give us an example, an explanation or something?

TOMAS: You want to know how it is that when you pass judgment on your fellows you have been dishonest with yourself for you are then reflecting back to yourself your own judgment? Is that your question?

Leah: I think it is. It's in reference to the statement you made previously. I think that's kind of paraphrased, what you said.

TOMAS: Let us go back and see what I said. [Tape rewound and replayed.] In the face of that review, do you still need elaboration?

Leah: No, I misunderstood the quote. I thought you said reality and not unreality. I think that's clarified now. I understand that you always see your state of mind if you are judging.

TOMAS: I will speak for a moment on what you have reflected back to you. There seems to be some misconception here. You are of limited understanding, and often what you perceive is being reflected is not so, and yet you will take it as a lesson in point when it is not meant to be so. Your perceptions are imperfect, for they are constantly adjusting to external situations. It is partly why you become weary of the journey in terms of your relationships with people; it is partly why you find people exhausting and troublesome.

That they manifest a reality that they perceive as their reality, it is not necessarily that that is a reflection of your own reality. Because someone (and this is extremely simplified) projects that they are blue, because they believe that they are blue, and you see blue when you look at them, does not mean that you also are blue. You well may be pink, but unless and until you know who you are, (your own reflection of your own self through a reflection of divinity) you are constantly then bumping into unreality and taking it upon yourself.

And herein is where you run into trouble regarding judgment, for someone may present a perception of what they understand and you have immediately personalized it and passed judgment when this is not required; this is not a good idea. If they feel that they are blue, let them be blue -- for God's sake. You know you are pink and it does not cast any negative reflections on you to allow yourself to be or to allow them to be also.

Even if either of you is in error, it is better to allow your understandings and reflections of divinity to be based upon love than on lesser judgment.

Leah: I understand what you're saying. I'm just saying that if you find yourself judging somebody -- as you said, you can allow it to be, they can be blue or whatever color they want to be, but if you find yourself judging them for thinking they are, then you are discovering that you are in a state of judgment. That's what I'm saying, is that you see your state of mind when you're judging them.

TOMAS: If indeed you are mature enough to realize that you are in the process of forming a judgment, then you are also mature enough to set that judgment aside and not choose to make it.

Leah: True. That's what I meant when I said that when you judge somebody you are only seeing your own state of mind if you're judging them.

TOMAS: And so we must do away with judgment, for it convolutes the clarity of seeing love reflected. If you don't see love reflected from your peers, seek it from the Father, (who is) the Source of love for it is only through the Father that love can be made manifest. These are character-building lessons.

The Teachers

Leah: Did the supernals who speak to us -- were they able to let go of judgment in the mortal realm?

TOMAS: You throw a large blanket. You must understand the tremendous range of previous experience in and throughout the universe, and even in the teachers who come to help guide you in your advancement, for we have been drawn from a large spectrum of experiential backgrounds and life forms.

Some, yes. And so, depending on the advancement of the finite realm was that creature experience available. You have and we have had (and still have, to the extent necessary) opportunity to learn this lesson today. Over time my judgments have diminished. Even as a human long, long ago I had advanced beyond many judgments -- but not all, certainly.

Judgment was part of my work, part of my career, and I am certain that this is true for you today, that there are circumstances wherein, as a member of society, you are justified, or feel justified in making judgment. But inasmuch as your society is not well advanced, I would not take lessons from it (group laughter), but think in terms, rather, of assessment, for it is appropriate to assess circumstances and situations and understand what is comprised without judging or condemning or concluding.

Leah: So it would be more like an evaluation.


Leah: The other thing I wanted to ask about. Are the supernals who speak to us (although I know you couldn't answer directly or qualifiedly or whatever -- it's like a judgment), do they go thorough the same evolutionary process like we do with the suspension of judgment? or . ..?

TOMAS: By and large, yes. There are so many millions of nuances, it would be fruitless to go into those, but by and large, ascension to perfection entails the same lessons, the same growing experiences, the same adaptations across the board, and so do not feel alone in your learning process. How do you suppose it is that we were sent here, collected as a group of volunteers, trained and sent here to help you, if we had not had similar or like experiences?

Leah: I don't know. I just figured you were a terrific bunch of guys.

TOMAS: We are. But we are terrific to you because we have advanced understanding of your experiential path. We have rolled out the red carpet that we wove.

Leah: Thank you. I guess that "whereof I speak" (at the end of today's chapter) really stuck with me. I wanted to know if you walked a mile in my moccasins.

TOMAS: I have.

Hester: Several miles.


TOMAS: Indeed. And here again we return to a nuance of character-building and non-judgment in your phrase about walking in someone's moccasins, for unless and until you understand your brother, your sister, you cannot love them, you will pass judgment, so it is necessary for you to understand each other.

Celeste: Tomas, this is going to be a kind of wonderful thing to work on, not judging another person. That's going to take some work on my part, but I'm looking forward to it.

Hester: That's one of the first laws laid down in Genesis, to "judge not...."

Celeste: I know, but it's so easy when you've been working on one of your own traits, and you feel you've accomplished something there, and yet you find a child or somebody that has that very same trait!

Hester: "... for it shall be meted to you likewise."

Celeste: That's true. I've learned that many times in my life. But in living my life, I sort of forget that.

Hunnah: What would you suggest, as the most effective way to deal with something you found offensive or disappointing?

TOMAS: Your range is way too broad. The entire life experience can be regarded as a disappointment or your selection of Whitman's chocolates.

Beatrix: You mean in relation to judging?

Hunnah: I dump it in the category of being human.

TOMAS: It is too easy to do that. It is too easy to say, "I can't because I'm only human."

Hunnah: No, I mean judging them. I tell myself that, because of their conditioning, I can't really do a thing about it. What would you suggest that we do?

Beatrix: We should say more about judging, actually, because you have judging, and discrimination. There seems to be a rough spot around the word. I mean what are we talking about, actually? Because the whole time we were having this conversation, I was thinking about the word "discrimination" or there were a couple of other words that may sound a little different, but in choosing what you have to choose constantly in your life -- you have choices, you have political choices, choices of friends, choices of relationships.

There has to be some way to understand, some way to discriminate. But what you're talking about, it sounds like a different kind of judging. That might not be real clear. I think you did say something like "completion." Like not bringing someone to completion. In other words, not boxing someone in. "You're this and you can't be anything else" is part of the definition. But how do you ever know anyone at all if you don't start this? You could be more, but I understand that. Don't box them in, not condemning. Those were the two words you used that made sense.

TOMAS: Thank you, Beatrix. You have given me some direction in this assignment of dealing with the question Hunnah presents regarding judgment.

[Tape turned; inadvertent "intermission"] It becomes more and more clear that these intermissions are so that you can let off steam.

Let me return then to the discourse that was ongoing regarding judgment, and having to do with understanding, for it has been said that you cannot love another individual unless you understand them, and so you set out to understand your fellows so that you may love them, for as you love each individual, you are surely socializing your beliefs and doing the will of God. It would behoove you to learn to love another individual each day and this would extend the kingdom generously.

But as you allow judgment to block your appreciation and divine love for your fellows, then you thwart the growth of the Supreme. What does it mean to understand your fellow? It means to appreciate where they come from, what they stand for, what their motives are, what their failings are, what their background is, what their gifts are, what they desire, what they have experienced as disappointments, what they have gained, what they have lost, what do they have to give and what do they take?

A thorough-going understanding of an individual will lead you to love them, for you can feel them and sense them now in your deep heart, not with your mind or your superficial values. You can love them as Christ loves them and do it personally.

On the other hand, you cannot love by a mere act of the will. You cannot say, "God is love; I am in God; I therefore love everyone." This is rhetoric. It is ideology. The Kingdom will only prevail as you actualize living love, and as we have said time and time again, it is difficult to love unlovely mankind. It is not fun to feel powerless in knowing that millions of your brothers and sisters are starving, are dying of disease, are being warlike with each other. How can you love them when they behave so badly or when they suffer so? How can you understand such suffering yourself, and who would want to?

The choice is yours. But as you choose to become real, to develop value, to serve and to be, you will stretch yourself, you will put aside judgment to sit side-by-side with your brother or your sister and learn to understand them and learn to love them, and thereby bring love, and accept love, and share love, as an actuality, as a reality. As long as you maintain judgment against your fellows, you shut the door on the potential of this divine interchange. That is all.

Hunnah: I wish it wasn't "all". What you said is: we heard it all. Everyone here is living what you're talking about, and it's getting better and better, but I had a conversation with my friend this morning and she said "I cannot meditate" (it's around 9:00, and I guess that's appropriate), and I said, "Well, I guess you'll have to do what my other friend does and get up at 5:00!" Well, that didn't sound too good to her because she felt like meditating when she wanted to, but in our busy lives, if we don't have a few disciplines and carry them through -- which is what I find difficult to do -- then we're not going to be able to apply what you're talking about.

If I were to get off the mattress and get up and give myself time and prepare for my day properly, like thousands of teachers have told us, then I would have -- another teacher says "milk in the pail." We would be able to go out and effortlessly - pretty much effortlessly - enjoy our day and be non-judgmental, like it would be wise to be. But if we don't give time to empty out and fill up with the truth of our being, then how are we going to have anything to give away?

What you say is true, and it is words, and we have been inundated with words -- not just from you, but from a thousand books. And my prayer for myself is that I will be able to make that effort to get up so that when the house is quiet and my worldly doings are not at my heels, that I can prepare for the day, and then it becomes a celebration. Otherwise, I am plowing through white water.

TOMAS: You have struck upon the key, certainly, to learning how to live your life, and that is through Stillness and through the direction you receive in Stillness, in your meditations and in your relationship with the infinite God of your understanding, your Indwelling Spirit. As you experience this reality, as it sends you forth, as you are amenable to its guidance, your path will alter - unquestionably. And it may be more effortless in some ways, but it may also be more poignant in others. I commend that.

I also want to remark about your preface that your friend called lamenting she did not have time to meditate, which is her lament, and you said, "Well, I guess you'll have to . .." and that was judgment.

Hunnah: It was a suggestion.

TOMAS: You intended it as a suggestion.

Hunnah: As a solution.

TOMAS: But to say, "Well, I guess you'll have to . .."

Hunnah: What would have been an appropriate response?

TOMAS: It is not so much the words, again, dear one, it is the attitude, and I will tell you that you have a defensive attitude, which invites judgment, and it is a result of your societal conditioning. I am not saying this is a fault or that there is something wrong with you to make you feel defensive. I am calling it to the attention of the others because they also do the precise same thing, and it is a result of your defensive attitude that leads your words to sound defensive and be received as judgmental, even though you don't mean that.

Elizabeth: Excuse me. How is that defensive? I'm a little foggy on that, Tomas. How is that defensive?

TOMAS: What can she do about it?

Hunnah: Well, there are children in her life, and you cannot meditate in traffic, traffic of home, a house full of activity, or the traffic of an office.

Elizabeth: I'm trying to figure out what Tomas said when he said "defensive" because I can't figure that out. Sorry. In what way?

Hunnah: Critical.

TOMAS: No comment.

Hunnah: Thank you. You've given us something to think about.

Beatrix: I would also like to add that all the hustle and bustle and hurry that somehow we seem to fit in a category of -- that's not living, but it's -- this calmness, and then we have the direction to be able to practice everything, that's true, but -- I also think that the busyness and the hectic-ness that you call white water is also, can also be very much living the spiritual life.

Hunnah: Oh, it is!

Beatrix: It's how it's looked at and how it's offered.

Hunnah: You pilot your ship in rough water if you . ..

Beatrix: It's nice if you can have both.

Elizabeth: That's nice. You're right. You do, if you get on top of it before the day starts.

Hunnah: Or you say, "My schedule's full enough; I'm not going to put myself through the ordeal of trying to do that, too!"

Elizabeth: Yeah.

Hunnah: But you get better at deciding how much there is of you to go around.

Beatrix: I've had experiences, though, when I think everything is so okay and together and can be calm and then that's when everything explodes, and I've had other times where everything is totally, overwhelmingly impossible, and then it's all cleared out. Not by my doing it, but, you know, it just happens that way. People cancel or whatever. So that it can be done. So I don't know that you can get such control, that you do with certain things. I don't know about that.

Elizabeth: I was talking about lack of control in my life, Tomas, to Andrew, and they always would bring me back to what Hunnah did say, which is that, if you could spend time in Stillness, a lot of these things would fall in place, and I guess that's really true.

TOMAS: Many times your relationship with the Father is sufficient, and as you are right with Him you can carry yourself and see that all is right with the world. But to the extent that you involve yourself with others, which is necessary, you avail yourself then of growth difficulties, communication difficulties. It is always good to return to the Father in silence or even in a moment to remember your divinity Source, even as you are embroiled in a situation, even an uncomfortable situation with a fellow human being.

To remember to stay close to the Father is a way of bringing him into your life to help it along, even to help along in the relationship development at hand. As you isolate yourself with the Father, however, and disallow interchange, intercourse with your fellows, you are thwarting the growth of the Supreme. It is perhaps an isolationist technique of survival that I am addressing, for if you can stay isolated in your citadel and hold judgment, disallowing others to get close to you, you will survive.

This is a sad commentary on the human condition but one which is, and as you accept that and become aware of that, you can begin to work with that. You can begin to work toward developing confiding trust in someone else that they, too, would like to break down the isolation, the aloneness of this existential existence in order to share experientially with others.

I am going to live dangerously. I am going to give you a peculiar assignment. You may enjoy it. I do not want it to result in hostilities, but it is a very human thing to do, that is a way of communication. You have that meddlesome habit of pointing fingers (which in some ways represents judgment), and so as you, this week, perceive any kind of judgment, either on your part or on the part of someone else, raise - conversationally - your right hand or finger, in [a way that shows] that you are aware of it and you here are aware of it but others are not.

And as you perceive that you are being controlling or that you are being faced with other's control over you, manifest your understanding of that, your acknowledgement, with your left hand or your left finger. Have you understood my peculiar assignment?

Group: Yeah. Uh-huh. Good.

TOMAS: Judgment

Leah: -- is the right hand; discernment is the left hand, is what I got out of it.

Beatrix: Left is control!

Hunnah: All right. Right is react and left is respond?

TOMAS: No. Control is the left; judgment is the right. And this is so that you can be aware of these aspects of personality infiltrating your thinking and the thinking of your peers, your society. You will be amused to discover that your hands are in the air most of the time.

Hunnah: Are we talking about our own response or either way? Beatrix: Both sides.

Hunnah: So if we're talking and she is telling me how to live my life, then I can put up my left hand to identify that?

Loreenia: You can put up both! Because I'm making a judgment of what you are and trying to control your . ..

TOMAS: It will help you understand these very insidious reactions - defensive reactions to life. They are defenses. They are also dishonest. And so it is a way of revealing to yourself in your own time and space, in this peculiar game way, that you are beginning to understand what judgment is when you give it, when you receive it, and what control is, when you try to give it and when it is thrust upon you. I have added control because it is closely related to judgment.

I have definitely done my damage for today.

Group: (Laughing) You certainly have!

Leah: Would you care for a report on our last week's assignment?

TOMAS: I would like to hear your feedback if we could keep it one at a time. Leah.

Leah: For myself, I found it very difficult, although I have done that assignment on my own (where you have eye contact with other people and you try to connect with their Thought Adjuster), but I was in a bar for six hours and I tried and tried and tried and I might have made contact with maybe two people, and there must've been 80 people at least in that place.

Loreenia: I personally each day tried. I lost track of how many people I looked into their eyes. Some of them I saw several times in the course of a day or in a week's time, so I guess I came up with roughly 80 to 90 people, losing count, so I don't know how many I did, but it was very effective, for me as well as them. It boosted my spirits!

Since I was a child, I withdraw from society for security reasons, and dealing - just looking at somebody and having them smile back, or even if they don't smile back! That's okay, too, at least I tried. And if they look in my eyes, or even look at you! How many? Did you count?

Celeste: No, I didn't count.

Loreenia: It's difficult to keep count, isn't it?

Elizabeth: Is Tomas still here?

Loreenia: Yes.

Leah: We're reporting on our assignment of looking into people's eyes last week.

Loreenia: But there's one -- last night was a very telling, strange experience. I was in the car, waiting, and I would think about people who were coming out, thinking about looking into their eyes, and they would come out and come near my car, which was at the far end of the parking lot from them. I'd open my eyes and be looking into their eyes. They'd come by my car! It's almost like my TA was talking to their TA and they'd actually come out and go by my car! For whatever reason. I noticed it happened twice in a row.

Elizabeth: I, too, have been doing that for a long time, but especially with my little children in my Sunday School. When I want to make a point, I make sure they look right into my eyes and I look into their eyes, because they will remember some of the good things -- and you know I'm trying to get rid of some of those negative things. I do know that.


TOMAS: It is time for me to make my exit. My transmitter is, in her words "fried" and I am going to give her a reprieve as well as you all. Carry on in the spirit of the holiday. We will meet after the New Year and perhaps then we will be embarked on some clear direction forward. Enjoy the holiday. Be safe. And do "the hand jive." Farewell.