1987-09-10-Prayer, Islam

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Topic: Prayer, Islam

Group: New Zealand TeaM


Teacher: Abraham

TR: Babs



Charlemont Opening prayer

Teacher: I am Abraham, I am your teacher

All Good evening Abraham

Teacher: I await your queries,



Tommas: I've been racking my brain all week, and I’ve been going back through the notes and all I seem to have done is re-discovered answers to past queries, I don't seem to have come up with anything; fresh.

Teacher: Yes. Do not concern.

"It’s a . . . little bit frustrating.

Teacher: I am aware.

"I have one small query that's just come to mind, when we pray, are our prayers always received?

Teacher: But of course,

" But not always acted on?

Teacher: Not in the manner you may expect

"But never wasted

Teacher: Correct. What is prayer?


Teacher: Correct, prayer is usual of positive, correct? Sending a prayer, a meditative thought is sent to the collective consciousness, you see, most persons when in prayer specifically request for themselves or a person known to them, yes? When the prayer is received in the collective consciousness it may be delivered to a person unknown to you, you are understanding?

"Would it be to somebody who perhaps needs it more than the person you are praying for?

Teacher: It is a possibility. The collective consciousness is for the common good of humankind.

"Yes, I normally pray for people close to me first, and then friends, and then people in general, and then myself on the end.

Teacher: Yes, but you see, it is as this. It is received into the collective consciousness, the direct benefit maybe for a person unknown to yourself, but you also receive as a "fall out" from the collective consciousness.

"Is there one collective consciousness or groups of collective consciousness?

Teacher: There are groups of, but I refer to THE ONE collective consciousness to which all belong. To which all are connected, in other words, GOD.

"I realise a little bit more, the importance of thought, in just those few words.

Teacher: Yes, and as I have said, you may receive an answer not in the manner you had expected. Yes.


Tommas: There was a programme on Television the other day we recorded it, I haven’t watched it yet, "The Sword of Islam" and it's about Moslems, and their idea is to convert the world to their belief, and kill, and die in the attempt doing it.

Teacher: Yes, yes...

"They seem to have basically good ideas, but are going about it totally the wrong way.

Teacher: Yes, as with all, the origins are forgotten, in their zeal for changes they become aggressive. As I have said these persons use the name of God to excuse their inhumanity.

"It makes you wonder what you can do about fanatics, like that, who are quite prepared to....

Teacher: Then arm yourself with the simplicity of the PURENESS OF THE LOVE WHICH IS GOD, IN TRUTH, and if all persons do this, is shall be a more mighty weapon than that which they use.

"Back to grains of sand.

Teacher: Of course. From the light, comes growth, from the dark of aggression comes destruction, but you see their fervour is of a physical nature. This manner of doing and being in the likeness of love which is God is of a more gentle, subtle manner, I have said, arm yourselves, perhaps become more fervent yourselves, not in an aggressive, physical manner,

"These people spend a lot of time in prayer.

Teacher: Thought, remember prayer, meditative thought. You shall understand the strength which they are using. It is true they are in. prayer more hours than is common for others, therefore the energy of their power of thought, yes, but you see like will inhibit so those of a non aggressiveness should arm themselves with this power of prayer thoughts, yes? And there are many many numbers of these persons of Islam which the prophet Mohammed never intended for aggressive behaviour, yes.

"They misunderstood his words as well.

Teacher: They, by choice, have misunderstood, yes. In the beginning they did not misunderstand and great benefit came from the words he spoke. Those who have put themselves at the head of the Islamic Laws do wrong by human kind,

Petta Will there be an end to it all, or will they just go on until they annihilate each other

Teacher: I shall not say yeah or nay, you have the power to change or not the choice belongs to the rest of humankind. It is not good to fight with the fighting equipment they use. Use the method I have suggested, is the only manner.

Melda I've just been reading about the, I don't quite know how you say it, the Rishi, in India, and apparently they have the power to change a negative situation that is dangerous to a positive situation, is this the same thing

Teacher: Correct.

Filip One of the people on that programme, the way he spoke, if we could speak to him, he would see it was not the western way that is the opposition, it's the same path really as we know and as they know, but he doesn’t understand that, he thinks the west, or the western influence, but they are the same basis, the God basis, can't remember exactly what he said then, but I thought when he said it, if I could talk to this guy...

Selina Arid make him understand.

Filip Yes, he would see that we are the


Teacher: You see, I have said, my message to humanity has not been heard, it was, DO NOT SACRIFlCE I did not learn this myself, until almost too late for the life of my son. It was taught to me DO NOT SACRlFlCE, and I misunderstood. It is still of great pain for myself that I did not leave my message of clarity for humankind, sacrifice is not for GOD. Is not for GOOD. Is not for LOVE. Is not for truth.

And these persons who are brethren of all humankind, who came from the seed of my son, Ishmael, have not learnt, DO NOT SACRIFICE. He was cast aside with his Mother, sacrificed by myself, for the sake of my first born son. I did not understand, I beg humankind to understand. Therein lies the root of difficulties which exist still with the Arab & the Jew and the rest of humankind.

When you give a message be certain of the clarity in which you deliver. Be certain of the understanding of your message, as I should have done. I have the opportunity to teach still, and this is the message I teach


and brings that which you are witnessing, yes.

Filip My thought is, there are 10 – l5 of us who know this here, it’s not enough.,

Teacher: There are others. The work of teaching as you must be aware,is a slow process.

Tommas: Yes, we were working out earlier, there is possibly 50 to 60 people who have come into contact with just our little group, they have not all stayed, but they have all become aware, and when you look at it that way, it's quite a few,

Teacher: And how many....

Tommas: have they told.

Teacher: Correct, and they, and on, it is as the ripples in a pond. You may appear to be a small number, but there are many such as you. Many others I teach. And there is One who intends to do much. Give him the power of your thought for the courage to do that, which he must do. You may be unknown to him, and him to you. But his name shall be familiar


whether it be in this physical journey or another it is for his choice. But each may do much. So, you worry, you have no query.

From a small seed much has grown. A demonstration for you, you do not need lengthy, complicated queries.

Tommas: Yes, I think that is what you tend to look for.

Teacher: Yourself is query enough. Query yourself, your thoughts, your feelings, your actions, your understanding. And from a seeming small thought of prayer, yes.

Filip I didn’t come up with a query, but I began thinking about evil thoughts, what makes you think evil thoughts bad thoughts, and I didn’t reach any conclusion on that. Why do you think these nasty things, the Bible or religions teach us that it's the devil or Satan that puts these thoughts into your head, but all these teachings have never mentioned the black side, the devil or Satan or whatever.

Teacher: There is no such entity, except within yourself.

"Yes, that's what I thought, now is it your own free will, that thinks these bad thoughts

Teacher: It is the two sides of the coin.

Tommas: The bad thought is a reaction to something, isn't it. If somebody harms you, you will have bad thoughts about the person, something triggers it off, if somebody pinched your fruit, you'd have bad thoughts about that guy, you wouldn’t have had bad thoughts about him before hand.

Selina So cause and effect

Teacher: There is the negative and the positive. Cause and effect, no.

There are always two. The side you do not see, the side you do see, the roots in the ground you do not see, the plant you admire. The smile on the face, the sadness in the eyes, the heaviness of the heart, the smile. There are of course times when it is the smile on the face, the lightness of the heart, the joy in the eyes. When this occurs negativity has been so to speak conquered, and is good. Do not dwell on your negativity which you call evil, yes, replace with good, but of course it is of great difficulty for humankind to remain positivity, good, so there are times where the trough of the wave comes, knowing the crest of the wave follows, yes, but also do not forget negative thoughts have great power also.

Filip Is that part of the learning experience, the troughs as well?

Teacher: It is of a natural event, for some it is of great noticing, for others there appears not the rise and fall, for others, yes. You are also effected by the world in which you live, by the atmosphere, by the sun or thunder, by other persons' thoughts transmitted by the revolving of your planet, by the gravitation field in which you exist, all this must, and does have effect on a human body, mind, you are understanding?


Tommas: Yes, we were wondering earlier, with all the electronics we use now, in places of work, etc., if the impulses from those affect you, but of course they would wouldn’t they.

Teacher: But of course. Your bodies are forever being bombarded by electrical components. Energising your body in the wrong manner.

"Will we eventually evolve to combat that, like we do physically?

Teacher: But of course, You see the electricity in your atmosphere is great indeed and humankind have learned to adjust to this, but in the manner in which electricity is harvested and re-used causes disturbance, yes

"This affects all dimensions as well then.

Teacher: But of course. And a manner for earthing yourself is in the calmness of the stillness. To re-align yourself with a natural element of electricity which is within you and without. You are understanding

Then take your refreshment, I shall return.



Teacher: You have discussion? You wish to comment

Tommas: Well we bandied around the word religion, as to whether we class ourselves as a religious group, and some of us felt, no, we don’t think we are a religious group, but we looked up a dictionary, and the word would fit our group, but it would also fit a lot of other meanings, but it fits our class.

Teacher: Yes another misused word, misinterpreted, misunderstood. There are also those persons of the church who are named religious and this is the original interpretation. A monk, a priest a nun, are religious, a religious

Tommas: I didn’t like the title myself, because most of the trouble through the world, seems to be from what we would call religious groups and I didn’t feel that the word fitted us at all.

Teacher: Yes, I am understanding, If you are a believer in the Light, which is Truth, which is Love, which is God, you may be termed a religious.... It is not necessary for our teachings for you to label yourself religious if you do not desire.

Filip But the understanding of others who don't come to our lessons, it is an easy description.

Teacher: Correct. You may say you are religious, meaning you are a follower, you may say, you are not religious, meaning you are not a follower. That is the usual interpretation.

Charlemont In the very early days of man, mankind believed in many many gods, Melchizedek and others taught there was only one God, which lead to other religions taking on this thought, now we have many religions fighting with one God, but everyone sees God differently, the consciousness we are trying to reach, and if you like, preach, is just the consciousness of God, and it seems to me nothing has changed, it's just a different battlefield.

Teacher: Yes. It is unfortunate but it appears to be so. But you see, most of the warring nations who fight in the name of God, have misplaced their God consciousness, if they were to look back to their early teachings they would receive understanding of God consciousness, but you are not involved in a battle as they are. Your battle so to speak, is within each and every one of you. Re-discovering the God consciousness you knew when all was simplicity. You wish to comment Charlemont?

"There is so much I want to say, and I can't seem to get out the right words, the right feelings, to put to it all, it's a total frustration. Understanding the God consciousness that I think and know I do is not the same God that all the religions talk of as God, It's totally different to me.

Teacher: It is the same God. Their image is false.

"But I feel I've climbed a huge ladder, got to the top, and at the top of the ladder is a wall a mile high, of ignorance, my own ignorance mainly, because I don't know what to do.

Teacher: Yes. Have I not said, this wall shall fall, a brick at a time, not by battering, but from self destruction, you are understanding? This is of course occurring.

"Yes, that makes me feel better, you have said this before.

Filip The sort of things we have looked at and sort of spoken about, there are lots of things that you have said before, the words are the same, it's happening all over. This guy on this Sword of Islam thing, he was aware, or he'd got the same ideas really as us, but through so many hundreds or thousands of years of mis-guidedness through Mohammed, it's just off, slightly, but are they slowly becoming aware each to each, the amalgamation of the churches, different religions all becoming more aware of the same one God.

Teacher: You see, who is perceived as the head of Islam, who is perceived as the head of the Anglican religion, of the Catholic religion etc, etc., it is not God. It was always mans desire to perceive God, personified. It was always God's wish to not be so. It was always mans desire to use God to give power to all humankind and was used in this manner and still is


Charlemont You have touched on the nerve point I've been trying to get to. If we come across a human who does not wish this power as was with Jesus that knows of the God and has a following, what would we do coming across that person, who was Christed in such a way, would we not fall back into that same pattern of human kind ways of saying this is the man who's leading our belief

Teacher: If you are remembering the teachings, if you are conscious of God, you shall not do this. Any person proclaiming to be God personified should be regarded with some concern, Although it is true each of you is God, do not look to one person to BE God. Collectively, you are God, one person may receive direct communication, listen to the teachings, understand the teachings, regard the person as human, I say this, has not Rueben shown you this

Mankind shall fall if held too high. God shall never fall.

"What of, in the terms you are speaking now, of Jesus and Melchizedek, were they not extra special human kind, or not?

Teacher: They were great teachers, they commanded respect for themselves, they were called Kings both called Kings of Peace. In mankind terms they were leaders. Mans highest term for leader is King. They, humankind, transferred God as King to these persons. You are understanding? Denying these persons their humanness.

"Yes, I understand what you say, but what about, I'll say, stories that they were sent here with a mission.

Teacher: Correct.

Teacher: Soul Yes?

Was embodied in the physical.

Soul was the messenger.

Soul was the direct communicant, yes.

You are understanding?

Soul being higher consciousness.

Filip So when Jesus was born, his soul consciousness door didn’t quite shut like it does with everybody else.

Teacher: Correct. He was, in the physical, aware of his task, and of the importance of his vehicle. You are understanding?

Charlemont Could it be said today, there are perhaps thousands or more of humans with this same awareness that Jesus had then?

Teacher: Yes. This is correct,

There are many more vehicles in the physical.

‘Rather like your consciousness being the first to find your God through meditation, the stillness.

Teacher: Yes.

"You were the first to cause a reaction of many to follow Jesus was the first of a type that now is commonplace to an extent.

Teacher: Yes.

Filip And this is because there are now more humans on the Earth than there were in those times,

Charlemont Plus the 100th monkey thing. The awareness consciousness. Conscience is like fashion, it spreads.

Filip We are now becoming aware of our vehicle for our soul which like a lot of the people down the street and around the corner are not aware of.

Selina So if Ishmael decided to go home to do what he could he wouldn’t be alone, there would be people in perhaps powerful situations that could help him, in Government or in some kind of services?

Teacher: I cannot say. It would be unwise for me to do so. And I may add the work he may choose to do, is not in a manner you would expect.

Charlemont Abraham, when you spoke before of Ishmael, I wondered whether you were speaking collectively or the one man who sat at our table? I meant collectively, as in the Arab peoples.

Teacher: Yes.

"Or the Ishmael we personally know.

Teacher: Both. And beyond. You see, Abraham is responsible for that which occurs, due to causing Ishmael to be sacrificed, you are observing the effect. Imagine therefore if I had learned my lesson and had not cast aside Ishmael and had taught to live in peace, but it does not do well to hearken back. One must ever look forward. But an example for you to consider in the cause and effect of your thoughts feelings and actions.

"I always felt you put too much on that, casting Ishmael aside, considering the Arab race were nomadic and you allowed him to be nomadic, and he didn’t die anyway.

Teacher: Ah!, but, you see, Charlemont, it is beyond this mere physical.

"but you loved him?

Teacher: But of course.

Charlemont You only did what was traditional for those times.

Teacher: Correct. But I had not learnt.

Selina Yes, I feel the same as Charlemont, you seem to be taking a very heavy burden on your shoulders and why doesn’t God lighten your load, haven’t you suffered enough, for long enough

Teacher: Do not concern. You are not listening, you are not understanding.

"Well I am in a small way.

Teacher: You understand the example I give.


Teacher: Is for your understanding.

To always have care of the cause & effect, not only for yourself but for others and for your future generations to come. If each person took this responsibility upon themselves, yes, such a great, great benefit would there be.

"Yes. Dominica has been annoying me quite a lot over the last few months, and in a teasing way, I keep telling her to leave home, why doesn’t she go and live with children her own age, why doesn’t she go and live with her grandmother, and I can see that I mustn’t do this, I must, we must accept each other for our faults and still try and love each other and overcome our faults, stay together, and I mustn’t let her make me un-calm, and she mustn’t make me, upset her. Is this, in a small way, the sort of thing you are preaching, because of the repercussions if she left home, perhaps never to return, I wouldn’t see grandchildren and that sort of thing.

Teacher: This is for you to decide. Each must take responsibility for actions, feelings, thoughts

Filip Well this is the problem I have.

Selina Oh that's right. Maybe welcome him back into the fold.

Bryoni Do you still have the problem?

Filip Not now, as I've cast him aside.

Teacher: Ah, but you see, the boy made his choice knowing the consequences of actions, feelings, thoughts.

Selina Whereas . Dominica, her choice is to stay, and I've been fed up with her lately and have said don’t stay, please don't stay, go, spread your wings, leave the nest, but she doesn’t want to, so I've got to accept that.

Tommas: She knows where she is well off.

Dominica She doesn’t know where she wants to go.

Selina In your situation, you wanted your son out, did he want out anyway, did he prefer that option

Filip That's not what he said.

Teacher: Rather more complex, but you see, my lesson for you all is simplicity, out you may find difficulty, yes.

It is as with the stillness, appearing difficulty in the simplicity.

Tommas: We quite often find it easier, once we have . read back through the notes, in our own time, if we have not quite understood, then we can go back through, and read again, eventually it dawns on us.

Teacher: Use your stillness for understanding. Understanding may be so brief that you feel you cannot grasp it, with words. Do not concern. Understanding is. You are understanding?

Charlemont Briefly.

All Laughter

Teacher: Yes.



Then I shall leave you with this.

Picture if you will, a view from a hilltop. You have a panorama of such awesome beauty. You are on the hilltop. You are unsure of where your hill stands. You cast your eyes around, looking for some point of reference, seeing none, becoming anxious, but in the far distance, there is a slight parting of cloud from the horizon and you see your reference point. This brings calmness and understanding of your position. Before you are able to completely see this reference, it is covered once more with cloud. You hesitate, again anxiety but anxiety flies away, leaving the knowledge of understanding that you have seen & understood. So it is, in the stillness.


Charlemont says a closing prayer