Group: Pocatello TeaM
Daniel(TR #4 for the whole meeting): "Greetings friends, I am Daniel your guide, teacher, and friend. As always it is with great pleasure that I smile upon your proceedings prior to the initiation of our meeting time together. My but you are a high spirited bunch today! And we delight in your high spirits and your collective energy. This energy energizes all and has an effect even of those pessimistic sorts/types. My friends may I comment on this aspect before Tomas gives our lesson this evening?
Friends, have patience, have tolerance, have love for these who see the ongoing aspects of your material world. They have evidence for their pessimism for, indeed, do terrible things take place on this planet! Indeed is the planet in emergency status. This is why we are here. There is a real and true emergency and, you see, your brothers and sisters do not have the benefit of this contact nor have they yet learned and experienced the wonderful sustenance and nurturance that comes about from sitting in silence with the First Source and Center. Indeed does that silent time increase your faith by increasing your knowledge and awareness of our God, our Parent, our Creator, our Source. With true knowledge that comes from firsthand experience is there faith.
And so, friends, what your sisters and brothers need from you is your steady support. They need you to be oases of peace, oases of calmness, oases of faith. It is your beingness that will change the world. It is your love that will change the world. Continue, my friends, the work that you do that your peace may be deepened, that your knowledge of God, our Parent, may be deepened, that hand in hand you may walk with your sisters and your brothers out of the clinging clutching muck and on to drier ground, ground that blooms with the fullness and the fragrance of our Parents, Michael and Nebadonia. And with these comments I now turn over the meeting to my good friend and colleague, Tomas.
Tomas(TR #2 for the whole meeting): "Thank you Daniel and good evening students. It is an honor again to be with you in our more formalized format following the experimentation of last week's agenda. Be aware that on occasion life provides unexpected surprises and these events that shake up your comprehension of what would be is beneficial to you. Indeed this evening I have time to bestow words having to do with trust.
The fact of your high spirited demeanors, indeed, your high spirited realities are a direct result of trust. In days of yore before we were authorized to tend to your emotional and spiritual needs and quandaries you were in the same plight as many. Most mortals who are debilitated by distrust and even your trust in a higher power, in Godhead, have been damaged by their perceptions of truth.
We have come a long way in our lesson plans. You have traversed many miles of steadfast soul growth and in some areas have now come into stride, and these strengths of character, these developments of your morontial aspects are linked immediately to trust. You have come to trust first these spirit entities who have touched your lives, who have pushed your buttons, who have spurred your growth and perhaps most significantly have nurtured your infancy in your developing needful reality. Once you became convinced of your own being as Spirit and began to feel the love of Michael and the great Source you began to flower and flourish, building in yourself a trust in the overcontrol of cosmic government and divinity which allowed, then, your self realization to extend into your personal selves. We begin to see the benefit now of having learned to trust your feelings and your experiences through a backdrop of your emerging higher selves, thus coming into awareness of those aspects in yourselves which you have learned somewhat to trust.
The final link in your chain of plateau of trust now is evidenced in your camaraderie with one another, in the dynamic growth of your interpersonal relationships and the living trust that you have come to find and develop in the knowledge that each of you is a true child of God and that you are interrelated. The intellectual appreciation of this series of truths is not the same as the experiential depths and heights which have come to pass as a result of your trust. How steadfast your trust depends significantly on how closely associated you remain with your Spirit advisors, your own integral core reality and the continued trusting fellowship of your brothers and sisters in the Spirit and in the flesh.
It is a sound foundation upon which to further build but it is not embedded in concrete. It is necessary that your community remain true members in trust of the process of the actual development of a new reality which you begin to see take hold, take place, and take precedence in your path upon Urantia.
Inherent in the trust realm is the knowledge and truth that you have individually, and to that extent collectively, been entrusted by our Creator Parent to carry forth these realities, to carry upon your mortal shoulders the responsibility of understanding your relationship to that reality which is essential to the surge forward into our efforts toward Light and Life, toward the rejuvenation of trust of your fellows who have, like you, known abandonment and betrayal. Now you see the light. You have benefited spiritually from your exposures and your experiences. Through your fellowship you have found wisdom and sustained your trust. This has brought about such a pinnacle of divinity in your sphere that it is visible in situations, in individuals, in truth, in your own Pocatello. It will also radiate as you radiate what you have learned in full trust of the process of this Correcting Time Mission.
There is no way to make light of trust. It is your work, your decision, your mental processes, your soul commitment to trust. As a result and concurrent therewith you are entrusted. The joy and glory of your work is the shared joy and glory of all reality of lasting value, of infinite worth and truth shared by us all. I have spoken at length and sufficiently regarding trust to impress upon your deep mind the effects of this very real quality and the need for your continued trust. In implicit trust of your desire to serve Michael as one of His co-creators I return this platform to Daniel and anticipate your commentary and questions."
Rutha: "Good evening Daniel and Tomas. Tomas, thank you for that great lesson. I have a question regarding your lesson on trust. You said it was a quality, but I wonder. To me it seems like trust is something that we must learn like a process where we first get an idea that there needs to be trust, kind of like an intuition. But real trust is actual knowing from within. And I wonder how many of us can just know from within initially or whether we have to go through a learning process? And if we do, other than sitting in quiet, is there any shortcuts you could give us for gaining trust?"
Tomas: "No, I can not give you any shortcuts to attaining trust for trust, indeed, is a quality that is developed, as honesty is a quality which is developed. In truth you are given the gift of faith and this may be augmented as you ascend and as you ask for greater faith. But trust is that kind of sense which [evolves]. Although as an infant, as a weak child you have trust without measure, (you trust your parent to provide your needs), as time, however, goes by on a planet such as this, in an environment fraught with deception, trust is sullied and misconstrued in your environment. How can you, you say, trust anyone in a dog eat dog world, when there is such vying for attention and position, when the needs become so great, when people are passed over for promotions and even when you, in faith, pray for God to answer a devout prayer and the prayer is not answered to your understanding or satisfaction? There is an element of the human which regards this as a betrayal and hence distrust in tangible reality results. [[ As a fledgling soul]] when you sit in stillness and in faith and believe that you are connected to a power greater than yourself, indeed, a source of energy and life, whether or not you regard this source in the personal aspects of Father you begin with faith that something is there. That something responds to your flicker. As that is strengthened and developed you are then called upon to put your faith into action; and that requires trust that what you have faith in will respond when you need it and as you believe it will happen. Thus trust is something which you develop, that is redeveloped as a newborn soul in your ascension.
So, no, daughter, the only shortcut that I can conceive of is if you had never been betrayed: that as a child you were surrounded by loving family protectors and providers; that your society had not suffered many millennia of distorted instincts; and that you had been rather born into a world well established in Light and Life. It is part of your journey to begin to consciously determine that you will trust. Is that clear?"
Rutha: "Yes, Tomas, thank you. There is just one more aspect of this, though. When you were giving the lesson I had initially thought of a baby coming into the world and needing to trust his parents. I don't know that a baby can trust, he has no other choice. That's just it. The parents either care or they don't. So it's not a matter of trust. And that's why I was wondering about the aspect of it being a process in learning. I still don't see how a baby in its soul, because the soul is not really there...well anyway, I appreciate your words and I value that trust comes through faith and being reborn and seeing the value of different things as we do experience life, that we can then start to trust again. Thank you."
Daniel: "I, Daniel, would like to attempt a response. Trust and faith are, indeed, different from one another. Faith is known by the emerging soul and is more spiritual in origin. Trust, on the other hand, is both spiritual and material. Indeed do babies trust. Indeed do puppies trust. Animals that have not had negative experiences trust that their needs will be met, for as you say, they have never experienced otherwise. Therefor this trust is, indeed, an automatic gift that comes with the package, so to speak. It is distinguished from faith which is an understanding of spiritual connection.
I realize that this distinction between trust and faith feels blurry. It is difficult to know when one is acting on faith and when one is acting on trust. My advice is to not worry about which is which. You are material and spiritual beings; you are dual in nature and therefor you experience both. One is part of your natural inheritance as material beings, one is a gift as a spiritual being. However trust can be violated, faith cannot. Trust is that material aspect and on this planet you find many, many examples of broken trust. Faith, however, is not violated for faith is the relationship to the Source and the Source never breaks faith with you.
I hope that did not create a muddy mess, a hornet's nest of additional buzzing and lack of clarity. However, if so, Tomas and I are equipped and ready to answer further. Deborah, did that help you in any way?"
Deborah: "Yes, Daniel, thank you very much. That clarified a lot for me. Thank you."
Daniel: "You are welcome."
Kent: "Greetings my two friends and all others present. Your conversation tonight on trust is outstanding! You say trust can be violated. The trust in the Father is never violated as I understand it. Another thought that crossed my mind when you were speaking was truth, as one comes into spiritual reality, into spiritual awareness, that the truth of that builds the trust. Is that correct?"
Tomas: "In part, for truth as it is perceived is fallible. In other words you can in your mental processes mess up your own trust and faith by your perception of truth. Practice until the clarity of the truth which is that hallmark of the Father permeates you to such an extent that all trust is automatic and your faith is flourishing. It is in the perception of truth that both trust and faith are set aside. In fact, perception of truth is as wide and varied as individuals who think. For each individual maintains its own perception of truth. When and as the Truth prevails, the trust is natural among believers, then the great cosmic overseer is adored by all perceiving beings. Then will we come into that realm where we shall see truth pay off in implicit trust and fruitful faith. Herein is our work. Is this a response which impacts upon your message, my son, Kent?"
Ken: "Yes it impacted. It left a good size dent. That was very good. Thank you. That enlarged my view tremendously.
I have a couple of questions, three questions that I would like to address to Daniel from my dear sister Gerdean. The first one is concerning the Apostle Paul.
She asks the question, `I have difficulty loving Paul, in fact I have a resentment against Paul, Saul of Tarsus. And I don't understand why he is credited with being one of the seven great human teachers.(121:6.4) Christianity has a terrible foothold. Its basic tenants keep people in fear: original sin, atonement, and sacrifice are ignoble ideas. Paul's attitude towards women is detrimental to human liberation and they have the nerve to call him an apostle. Help me overcome my negative attitude.' Can you respond to that for Gerdean?"
Yes, much that is negative, much that is derogatory is the result of Paul's limited perspective, Paul's time spent, Paul's past religious experience, notably his asceticism and attitude toward women and the compromise that he engineered with those who held the belief in balanced forces of good and evil, in the equal pull of heaven and hell and in the atonement principle in order to further the new religion about the resurrection of the man, Jesus.
Many wars have been fought in the name of this religion about the man who resurrected, this religion, Christianity. Many bitter words have been spoken to one another. Much pain and much misunderstanding of the love of our great Parent has been the result of Paul's imperfections, Paul's humanness.
However, much good is also the result in that the Christian religion did take hold. In addition to the errors in perception and the inclusion of inconsistent theology with the truth, the meaning, the message of Christ Michael's walk on this earth that we are all one family, we are all brothers and sisters, this message did go forward. The religion was spread. In addition to the errors, the true message also spread of a loving Parent. And this knowledge of God as a loving Parent far exceeds all other errors. It was primarily due to the passion of Paul, to his political savvy that the Christian religion was spread.
As you are well aware the Eastern and more true form never took hold and therefor were it not for Paul, the message of the loving Parent may have perished before spreading very far. Although very much that is wrong has spread in addition to the knowledge of a loving Parent, this knowledge did go, did spread as well. My dear daughter, Gerdean, your knowledge of a loving Parent, indeed, rests on the shoulders of Paul as well as on the shoulders of the Urantia Book. As you are aware revelation is given at particular periods in a planet's evolution when people are ready for the higher revelation. If it were not for Paul this planet would not now be ready for this revelation that you received in the Urantia Book. So my dear Gerdean if it were not for Paul you personally may not have experienced the knowledge and the experience of a loving Parent. So perhaps this understanding can assist you in forgiving Paul his errors that you may read those words with less resentment and that you may send him love."
Gerdean(TR #2): "Thank you Daniel."
Daniel: "You are welcome."
Kent: "Thank you Daniel. I believe that this will help all who heard this and those that will read it. Thank you.
Daniel: "Dear friend, sister, daughter, Gerdean, prayer is adequate service and at times it is the most effective service that can be given. Often in one's zeal to assist another, in one's zeal to plant seeds of wisdom and truth, does one act not only from one's alignment and desire but also from one's own perceptions, which, as has been discussed earlier this evening, are not always perfect, are sometimes less than adequate. In prayer is love sent. There is no more powerful salve to any issue, any problem, any situation than love. Also in prayer does one find one's connection to the Source and assist through the collective consciousness. And so, yes, prayer is adequate service.
I would add, of course, following prayer spend time in the quiet for in quiet are answers given and in quiet does one find the small unobtrusive ways to serve. May I remind you that a smile is service. So I would say this. Prayer is adequate service, if in addition to prayer one has a prayerful attitude. Prayer is not adequate service if one prays for people and then refuses to make eye contact, frowns, is an inconsiderate driver, etc., etc., and is the opposite of the love that they pour forth during their prayer. But this is rather inconceivable that one would have the devotion and the love to pour forth in prayer for other people and then be this type of an inconsiderate, dour, ill mannered person. Is this response of any help to you, my dear Gerdean?"
Daniel: "Beautifully stated. Thank you, my dear!"
Kent: "Thank you both. This question relates to part of what has been said, in this case, regarding the Spirit of Truth. 'Why do we still have such disparity? How can we help humanity transcend intellectual conviction and cultural conditioning to more fully realize the love of the Master? How can we help stimulate the Spirit of Truth, if at all?'"
Daniel: "Yes, indeed, does this question relate for the answer has been given, through a life well lived that is, in itself, a form of prayer; by avoiding the human affliction to become positioned about doctrine and dogma, to avoid intellectual argumentation and in its place to love and provide solace for disappointed hearts and discouraged souls. One does this by developing their relationship with our Source. Is there anything further?"
Gerdean: "I can't see any questions at this point, thank you."
Tonya: "In my philosophy course we have spent a great deal of time reading and discussing whether it is logical or not to have belief in a God. I believe, because of the teacher of our class, most of our readings have been on how illogical it is to have such a belief. And I find myself trying to come up with a way to find a logical argument that could say that it is right to believe in a higher source, a higher center than that which is in our lives on this earth. I don't see a reason for living, for going on if I don't have that, but yet while reading this I find myself very unhappy with not being able to find an argument. Could you in any way help?"
Daniel: "Tomas, can I take a shot at this first?"
Tomas: "Be my guest."
Daniel: "My dear, one does not know God through logic. And there is the rub. Logic will never answer the question of whether there is a God, could be a God, should be a God and, in fact, does logic lead very often to the logical conclusion, as many individuals have pointed out, have experienced, have felt, does logic point to some reasons for atheism. Look at the wars, look at genocide, look at the greed, look at the hate, look at the violence. Logically would a God that was loving, that was what God is supposed to be: powerful, loving, all wise, etc., would such a God have made such a world? No! [Ed. note: See UB page 1268, first two paragraphs for similar argument] So one can not find the answer in logic.
That is why in addition to the brain are you given mind, the Indwelling Spirit and the Spirit of Truth and the ability to form the soul through your free will choices. Also you were given the instinct/desire to search for God and to believe in higher being. One minute. And so it is not through logic that we find God but rather through experience and through faith.
Realize, my dear, that you are at this point in the evolution of this planet, Agondonters. You must proceed by faith alone for at this time there is no convincing evidence of God. Government on this planet, the administration of the Planetary Prince, went astray, the Material Son and Daughter defaulted. So there is no physical evidence which is what logic requires. Logic looks at the facts and some of the so called facts go against God. Your experience, your faith is in the opposite direction. Your Indwelling Spirit gives you the knowledge. Michael through the Spirit of Truth gives you the knowledge. Your existence is part of the fabric of Nebadonia Who gives you the knowledge of God. But this knowledge is not a fact and is not subject to logic.
I apologize for this rough answer. The TR is feeling nervous this evening. Tomas, do you have an addition to make?"
Tomas: "Teacher, yes, I have a response as well. Part of it has to do with referring you to Rodan of Alexandria who has postulated a rather excellent argument in favor of believing in God. I would secondly propose to you that since the issue is one of logic that you present your case as perhaps finding the logical merit in owning a Chrysler New Yorker. What are the merits of having a car as to not having a car and point out the advantages of velocity, comfort, assurance, and protection, not to mention power and beauty and convenience and assurance. All these aspects of knowing God are reasons to believe in God, unless, of course you are arguing the merits of walking. Thank you, student, for the opportunity to delve into some visualization. I am finished."
Tonya: "Thank you. Just one additional question. I think perhaps you answered it anyway. Why when we have an Indwelling Spirit and faith and the need to follow a Source and Center, why would you even choose the possibility of becoming an atheist?"
Tomas: "It refers, if you will, back to our earlier conversations of betrayal and trust. It is also rather interesting to note that brilliant atheists propound the reality of God daily in their need to express their own spiritual life. The aspect that is so fascinating is how cleverly and necessarily they expand the concept of God into diverse realms of energy and pattern and other intriguing physics and mathematical presentations, yet their logic always furthers credibility to the Creator they opt not to call by name. Trust that the God Fragment operates in conscientious, thinking and sensitive normal mortals whether they acknowledge our Parent or not. If they, the atheists, were not looked at with such ghastly reflections from Christianity they would not sustain their intrigue and power, for truly they are your brothers and sisters also unveiling new truths and realities to add to their experience and the experience of the evolving Supreme. Do you have `stuff' to take to class, child?"
Tonya: "I definitely do now, thank you."
Tomas: "And thank you."
Luke: "Hello Tomas and Daniel, this is Luke here. Greetings and to all the other ones that are present. I have faith that I can trust you. However if that faith is broken I can't come hunting and then I would sit in judgment. Thank you."
Daniel: "And may I add, friend Luke, that we appreciate your trust and that wavers less than you think. Your faith in God is sound. Your trust in us is also sound. We will be with you this next week. You can count on our love, our support and our presence."
Luke: "Thank you."
Tomas: "My companions in this venture, it is apparent to this teacher that these vessels are exhausted, and even though the night is young we are inclined to have mercy and call it a day. The invigoration of this evening was and is much appreciated. How we do enjoy your reflective repose during our seed planting efforts and how we enjoy observing your shoots emerge into the light of the sun. I am giving the mike to Daniel for his final salutations. I leave you with my love. Farewell."